Aviation Design Big Mirage 2000
08-23-2011, 09:43 AM
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RE: Aviation Design Big Mirage 2000
Thanks Pat. I hope I can make it to CJ this time. It clashes with a US event which I may, or may not be attending 
Regards Al
Regards Al
08-24-2011, 03:52 AM
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RE: Aviation Design Big Mirage 2000
Looking at these photos, I forget to make a special thanks once again to Ralle of Tailormade decals. Without his markings my planes would not look anywhere near as good as they do. Thanks Ralle!
01-04-2012, 03:31 AM
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RE: Aviation Design Big Mirage 2000
No video yet Dave, but soon I promise !
This is one of those planes that has really taken allot of setting up to get it flying how I want it. Don't get me wrong, it flew great, right off the board. It's just that I had so much anticipation in terms of what I wanted from this project, and the way it flew from new wasn't quite delivering what I hoped for, in that it wasn't as solid in the air as I would have liked ( Mainly on roll control) and the rolls themselves were a long way off of Axial. Now I know that Delta's are normally roll unsettled and that they don't roll like a hawk, but watching the full size Mirages demo I could see that they were far more axial and locked in than what I was getting. I know its probably not fair to compare a toy with a full size jet, but thats normally what I do. I watch allot of full size display videos and try and mimic what I see with the models that I fly.
Firstly I played around with centre of gravity set up. Adding quite allot of weight to the rear of the jet, in the hope that a nose heavy set up was my issue. No matter how much weight I added ( Got up to 1 kg in the end) Things did not improve. In fact all I noticed was more pitch instability creeping in. I also played with control set ups. I found that as with most deltas, the Mirage worked well with lots of elevator, and minimal aileron. However, it still felt unsettled in roll and no matter what I tried, I could get nothing near an axial ( ish) roll.
The real change came when I decided to bite the bullet and fit an aileron gyro. I have always been wary of fitting a gyro to an elevon plane, but a little reassurance from my friend Stig, saw a Gy351 fitted to just the outer surfaces of the elevon ( The Mirages trailing edge is split into 4 surfaces, all working together as elevons) and hey presto... What a world of difference. The Mirage is now allot more steady in the roll control, and flies considerably more stable and has a much more solid sit to it in the air. I then had a play with aileron differential. I started at tiny amounts, but now I have something like 100% upward deflection and 30% downward in roll. Massive difference in the precision of the roll. Sure, its no Futura, in that I can't do a long slow roll, but a single or double fast aileron roll looks far more like the Mirage videos that I have been admiring.
I have taken all the lead out of the tail, and may try adding some to the nose on the next flights ( Just to see what it does). I am so glad that I have stuck with this model. As I mentioned before, a really good mirage is something that I have wanted for ages. Phil Noel built me what I consider to be the perfect one for me, and now its flying in a manner more like what I had hoped for, I am a happy chap.
Some photos from recent events taken by one of our very talented UK photographers Neil Hutchinson.
This is one of those planes that has really taken allot of setting up to get it flying how I want it. Don't get me wrong, it flew great, right off the board. It's just that I had so much anticipation in terms of what I wanted from this project, and the way it flew from new wasn't quite delivering what I hoped for, in that it wasn't as solid in the air as I would have liked ( Mainly on roll control) and the rolls themselves were a long way off of Axial. Now I know that Delta's are normally roll unsettled and that they don't roll like a hawk, but watching the full size Mirages demo I could see that they were far more axial and locked in than what I was getting. I know its probably not fair to compare a toy with a full size jet, but thats normally what I do. I watch allot of full size display videos and try and mimic what I see with the models that I fly.
Firstly I played around with centre of gravity set up. Adding quite allot of weight to the rear of the jet, in the hope that a nose heavy set up was my issue. No matter how much weight I added ( Got up to 1 kg in the end) Things did not improve. In fact all I noticed was more pitch instability creeping in. I also played with control set ups. I found that as with most deltas, the Mirage worked well with lots of elevator, and minimal aileron. However, it still felt unsettled in roll and no matter what I tried, I could get nothing near an axial ( ish) roll.
The real change came when I decided to bite the bullet and fit an aileron gyro. I have always been wary of fitting a gyro to an elevon plane, but a little reassurance from my friend Stig, saw a Gy351 fitted to just the outer surfaces of the elevon ( The Mirages trailing edge is split into 4 surfaces, all working together as elevons) and hey presto... What a world of difference. The Mirage is now allot more steady in the roll control, and flies considerably more stable and has a much more solid sit to it in the air. I then had a play with aileron differential. I started at tiny amounts, but now I have something like 100% upward deflection and 30% downward in roll. Massive difference in the precision of the roll. Sure, its no Futura, in that I can't do a long slow roll, but a single or double fast aileron roll looks far more like the Mirage videos that I have been admiring.
I have taken all the lead out of the tail, and may try adding some to the nose on the next flights ( Just to see what it does). I am so glad that I have stuck with this model. As I mentioned before, a really good mirage is something that I have wanted for ages. Phil Noel built me what I consider to be the perfect one for me, and now its flying in a manner more like what I had hoped for, I am a happy chap.
Some photos from recent events taken by one of our very talented UK photographers Neil Hutchinson.
01-04-2012, 03:43 AM
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RE: Aviation Design Big Mirage 2000
One other shot of the model, and one of the full size ( Not in its tiger colours ) for comparison. As always, there are more things to be done ( added ) Lights are the Priority, a few bits of black to be painted underneath, and the smoke winders to try out, but thats something for the next few months. Before anyone mentions it ( Mr Spreadbury) NO! its not getting those huge great ugly drop tanks [:'(][:'(]
) for comparison. As always, there are more things to be done ( added ) Lights are the Priority, a few bits of black to be painted underneath, and the smoke winders to try out, but thats something for the next few months. Before anyone mentions it ( Mr Spreadbury) NO! its not getting those huge great ugly drop tanks [:'(][:'(]
01-04-2012, 06:51 AM
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RE: Aviation Design Big Mirage 2000
By far the best flying Mirage I have seen by adding the gyro it now looks so real and sits very well in the air. They can some times take more setting up and revisiting to get them perfect but this is now 100% spot on . Congrats,
01-04-2012, 08:21 AM
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RE: Aviation Design Big Mirage 2000
Pleasure, you really looked as if you were enjoying it ,so was I, do you still use outer surfaces as elevons as well or just as ailerons. I think i have seen the Raf actually put the inner surfaces down like flaps for landing, but hey ho these are flown by full gyro fly by wire, and the guy has a feel as he is inside. This Mirage is a plane I would love to own Now.
01-04-2012, 09:16 AM
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RE: Aviation Design Big Mirage 2000
ORIGINAL: Ali
One other shot of the model, and one of the full size ( Not in its tiger colours) for comparison. As always, there are more things to be done ( added ) Lights are the Priority, a few bits of black to be painted underneath, and the smoke winders to try out, but thats something for the next few months. Before anyone mentions it ( Mr Spreadbury) NO! its not getting those huge great ugly drop tanks [:'(][:'(]
One other shot of the model, and one of the full size ( Not in its tiger colours
) for comparison. As always, there are more things to be done ( added ) Lights are the Priority, a few bits of black to be painted underneath, and the smoke winders to try out, but thats something for the next few months. Before anyone mentions it ( Mr Spreadbury) NO! its not getting those huge great ugly drop tanks [:'(][:'(]Good talking with you at CJ abt this model and it's set-up...I have split the elevons on my Fei-Bao Mirage (primarily for redundancy) and intended to use them as elevons, rather than separate ailerons and elevators. I decided quite some time back to use a gyro on the ailerons as deltas always seem to be a bit twitchy around the longitudinal axis (well, that's my excuse!). I fly Weatronic, and bought a micro-RX with 3-axis gyro built in...one assumes that the gyro functionality can be effected with ailerons and elevators mixed as elevons...Rx fit is imminent so we'll see!
I never tire of watching Mirage demos...I maintain that the best single jet demo I've ever seen was by a French 2-seater at RIAT...and it wasn't a one-off, I watched Mirages display over several years. There's something almost surreal about the way the driver yanked it into a high G turn with max power on, the burner spitting uneven flames out the back, then roling wings level and unloading the G...and it's like it was on a piece of elastic, the acceleration was so noticeable as it shot away! Magic stuff.
I'm pleased Phil won the battle of the refuelling probe...he just needs to work on you re the tanks now
I look fwd to seeing this model do its stuff again soon!
Cheers,
Dick
BTW...if Neil's watching this...hope there's not copyright on that shot of the Mirage climbing away clean, coz it's my desktop background now!
01-04-2012, 11:58 AM
#44
RE: Aviation Design Big Mirage 2000
ORIGINAL: Ali
I am trying to source a lighting set to finish it off, but have a feeling that may be a job for after Jet Power. As it is Phil has fitted the A.D supplied after burner light.
I am trying to source a lighting set to finish it off, but have a feeling that may be a job for after Jet Power. As it is Phil has fitted the A.D supplied after burner light.
Here is our AD Mirage 2000 from Greece. What's wrong with the stock AB??
It'd be nice if you could report your findings with all this CG changes that you're planning.
Tassos
More pics [link=http://www.dounisairfield.gr/Image_Gallery.php?view=thumbnailList&category=7]here[/link]
01-17-2012, 12:24 AM
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RE: Aviation Design Big Mirage 2000
WOW
What a fantastic model Ali, looking forward to some video.
Don't you have enough pull at either Tomahawk or Comparf to ask them to build a Mirage (Eurosport size) nice and light to fly well on a 140 and to be super fun on a 180, I would be the first to order one, the Mirage is my all time favorite scale model.
My compliments to the photographers, it would be great if they posted what camera, lens, setting etc.
One of my favorite full size Mirage videos
http://youtu.be/4nc2d-tCvyM
Regards Neil
What a fantastic model Ali, looking forward to some video.
Don't you have enough pull at either Tomahawk or Comparf to ask them to build a Mirage (Eurosport size) nice and light to fly well on a 140 and to be super fun on a 180, I would be the first to order one, the Mirage is my all time favorite scale model.
My compliments to the photographers, it would be great if they posted what camera, lens, setting etc.
One of my favorite full size Mirage videos
http://youtu.be/4nc2d-tCvyM
Regards Neil
07-24-2012, 03:49 AM
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RE: Aviation Design Big Mirage 2000
Funny you should say that!!! 
This Mirage has been a real work in progress for me. It's just one of those jets that has had me captivated, and from the day I test flew it, I knew I loved it.. but I also knew that it needed... " Something else"
One of the best things about working with Phil at Pinnacle is that he genuinely does care about every project he builds. It has felt more like a team that a builder/ customer set up, and he has been as keen as I have to develop and refine the Mirage. The latest additions have been a full light system ( Two strobes, landing lights and nav lights) Plus activation of the smoke system in the wings.
I am not sure if its physical, or just psychological. However. Since the latest round of upgrades at Pinnacle Aviation, the Mirage is flying better than ever. Here is a video of it flying with the smoke winders operational for the first time, and the lights working well. Thanks Paul Mcbride for taking the time to shoot and edit the video. Not only am I lucky to have the best job in the world ( well for me anyway) I also get to befriend some really talented individuals along the way!
Regards Al
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uCvO...eature=g-all-u
This Mirage has been a real work in progress for me. It's just one of those jets that has had me captivated, and from the day I test flew it, I knew I loved it.. but I also knew that it needed... " Something else"
One of the best things about working with Phil at Pinnacle is that he genuinely does care about every project he builds. It has felt more like a team that a builder/ customer set up, and he has been as keen as I have to develop and refine the Mirage. The latest additions have been a full light system ( Two strobes, landing lights and nav lights) Plus activation of the smoke system in the wings.
I am not sure if its physical, or just psychological. However. Since the latest round of upgrades at Pinnacle Aviation, the Mirage is flying better than ever. Here is a video of it flying with the smoke winders operational for the first time, and the lights working well. Thanks Paul Mcbride for taking the time to shoot and edit the video. Not only am I lucky to have the best job in the world ( well for me anyway) I also get to befriend some really talented individuals along the way!
Regards Al
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uCvO...eature=g-all-u
08-28-2012, 05:26 AM
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RE: Aviation Design Big Mirage 2000
A big thanks to Neil Hutchinson for the following set of photos. Neilly splashed out on yet another stupendous Lens for his Canon, and we were lucky enough to have his company on the BMFA Nationals show line this weekend.
I finally pulled my finger out and got the twin smoke system that Phil Noel ( The Mirage builder) installed for me. Operational. I can now switch between two colours of smoke canisters from the wing tips in flight. I think it's fair to say that the Mirage is finally at a point where I am totally happy with it as a display model.
I finally pulled my finger out and got the twin smoke system that Phil Noel ( The Mirage builder) installed for me. Operational. I can now switch between two colours of smoke canisters from the wing tips in flight. I think it's fair to say that the Mirage is finally at a point where I am totally happy with it as a display model.
08-28-2012, 06:16 AM
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RE: Aviation Design Big Mirage 2000
Al,
I had to miss the Nats this year...pisser as I'd really looked fwd to it...but just to rub salt into my wounds, Big G called last night to say I'd missed probably the best model demo he'd ever seen...your Mirage! Now, I know he isn't joking coz he rarely gives credit and, what's more, he ain't a Mirage fan, so it must have been bloody good!
I know when we spoke last year you felt something was missing with the model's handling characteristics - good to know you've got it where you want it...it truly is a magnificent model that you need to bring to the next CJ!
Cheers,
Dick
I had to miss the Nats this year...pisser as I'd really looked fwd to it...but just to rub salt into my wounds, Big G called last night to say I'd missed probably the best model demo he'd ever seen...your Mirage! Now, I know he isn't joking coz he rarely gives credit and, what's more, he ain't a Mirage fan, so it must have been bloody good!
I know when we spoke last year you felt something was missing with the model's handling characteristics - good to know you've got it where you want it...it truly is a magnificent model that you need to bring to the next CJ!
Cheers,
Dick