SyCo_VeNoM

True
The problem is so many people buy the cheapest ass nitros on the planet, have tuning issues, and base their experience as truth for all of them off the cheap pieces of crap.

Nitro Fumes

I don't like electrics. Its Nitro or Gas for me!

nitrosportsandrunner

doesnt this count?
1/8 scale 4wd 3.5 nitro aftershock
only $250 shipped with a nitro starter kit.
doesnt that fit the bill of an affordable nitro SCT?

ts99ad

Don't get me wrong, once I get a taste for the speed, I will need bigger, faster, more.  Starting with baby steps.  Unfortunately preception will lead most to make decisions.  And right or wrong the preception is that electric easy, nitro difficult(expert). 

Personally i like the thought of pluging in the battery and going, especially for my first car.  I am buying my first one this week, something brushless and RTR out of the box.  Just like the old days of buying the new Tyco RC from Radio shack, charge the batteries over night good to go for about 30 mins.  Things have come a long way since then.

I want to eventualy get a kit and build one from teh bottom up, that is the only way to fully understand how things work. 

Argess

ooh....I like that!

378

My Feedback: (4)

By the time I get done fitting an OS engine and high quality radio it will cost as much as the Slayer or Hyper 10-SC. Oh and I don't need the starter kit, that can be left on the factory shelf.

Let's see..just going by the body-off picture here's what I would have to fix/deal with:

A proper engine. Really, a side exhaust .21? What is this, 1985?! It would work I 'spose, but it's going away as soon as a better one with more power can be purchased.

An air filter that's large enough to actually capture some dirt. I have an enormous filter on my NTC3 and that clogs within three tanks. That dinky little thing on the Redcat won't last three minutes.

Find drivetrain bits that don't explode under the power of the proper engine. This is part of the reason my CEN is retired. With the stock engine they hold fine, but I'm not going to keep that stock engine very long, and when I put an OS in it's going to start shredding things.

Shorter fuel lines. That thing has enough fuel line on it for three cars, and where I'm liable to drive it that means they'll get ripped clean off by a rogue twig poking itself under the body. Also makes it a pain in the ass to prime, and I have a feeling that enormous pressure line is going to cause it to have a funky, unstable tune. This is easily fixed with my side cutters, though.

As with my CEN I'll have to order direct for parts. Tower doesn't list them. Nobody locally is going to know who the hell they are. If I can't buy parts from Tower I don't want it.

There's also a strong chance the cheap-as-dirt servos will conk out. I can kill high quality Futaba and Hitec servos, so no-name cheapies have no chance in hell.

As a result I don't consider Redcat any more than I consider CEN when I'm looking for a new RC. I've been down the cheap nitro route before and I know how much work and parts they need before they can truly be reliable. My CEN gave me six years of lulz but I had to give it an astonishingly high amount of upkeep it wouldn't have needed if it were an HPI or AE in return. I'd be better off taking that 250 and buying a used SC8. I might be more apt to buy a Redcat if I had the disposable income it will require, as I'm sure it's fun to drive when it's working. But I don't.

Argess

Picky, picky, picky, but I agree, particualrly on the parts availability.

378

My Feedback: (4)

Hey if I had disposable income I'd probably snag a Redcat. They are excellent deals for people who know what they're doing and can afford to buy parts frequently. So are CENs for that matter.


But I can't afford to put the parts into it any more than I can afford to put the parts into my CEN. It would end up parked on my desk with shot bearings as well, with me being unable to buy a 60 or 70 dollar bearing set for quite a while.

nitrosportsandrunner

i have owned a backdraft 3.5(basically the same as the aftershock)
the radio is the same as the flysky 2.4ghz. nothing fancy, but gets the job done.
the servos could be better. but a pair of decent metal geared high-torque servos from hobbypartz.com will run you $30
the rest of the truck is pretty solid. the SH motor may not be "race" quality engine, but mine ran smooth with plenty of power.
and there are some backdraft 3.5 owners who race their buggies.

true, there are some areas of the aftershock 3.5 that may need work to be a true race truck.
but i see no reason to replace the motor or drivetrain parts. just the servos and radio and then maybe setup the stocks/suspension and tire for the track you are racing on. and that could all be done for less than the cost of a slayer.
now, im not saying the slayer is a bad truck, or that its not worth the extra $$$. It is. but your post asked for a affordable nitro SCT.
you cant get affordable and race quality motor/servo/radio all in the same package!

i dont have disposable income, but i own and bash 5 redcat models. they work well for me

The_Shark

nitro is still king in my eyes. maybe someone should look into re-inventing the nitro engine, think a twin cyl engine.

378

My Feedback: (4)

EFI DOHC VVT four stroke? It'd have the same rev band the two strokes do, thanks to the dual overhead cams and VVT, it'd sound bloody awesome, it'd be quieter, it'd get better fuel economy, it wouldn't need to be tuned(We'll put a break-in button on the ECU for break-in richness), torque would just about double(Come here brushless [>:] ), they're ringed so they'll last forever, they'd be easier to start, and need I mention superchargers will work with them?

I like stick radios. The Flysky could be the best radio ever invented and I'd have to swap it out because I highly doubt Redcat's receivers are compatible with FHSS transmitters, and I'm getting a Futaba 4YF that I aim to control all of my RCs with.


I would probably go for a single MG high torque steering servo and a Futaba S3003 for throttle and brake.

So was my CEN. I've rammed that thing into poles, I've hurled it off jumps, I've bashed through fences, I've flipped it, and it's ran away twice at full throttle. I even ran over a briggs engine and ripped a wheel off. Didn't break anything(The hub popped off the ball studs, all of five minutes to reattach). The soft plastic the cheapies are made of seems to render them absolutely indestructible as far as crashing goes.

So was the NT-16 that came in my CEN. Quite a smooth running little thing, and it did get the truck moving.

Didn't stop me from replacing it with a much stronger engine when it let go, though.


Not a surprise. People race belt sanders and garden tillers, so I don't see what's keeping someone from throwing a Redcat on a track.

The track in question is my back yard. I don't race. Never have. Probably never will, seeing as it'd cost me 20 dollars in gasoline alone to head to the nearest off-road track.

My back yard is way harder on a truck than a track ever could be. It's dirty. It's bumpy. I will run rain or shine, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. Snow, night, rain, mud, dry summer heat, dust, it's all sitting there waiting to annihilate bearings and clog air filters.

I'm not saying the Aftershock is a bad truck either but I would buy a Slayer over it because of reverse(Revo gearbox bolts right in) and parts availability.

Put reverse in the Aftershock, however, and I might be swayed. I'd have to replace half of the Slayer as well, and if I'm going to all but rebuild it anyways it might as well be cheap as dirt.

My CEN got to the point where I didn't even bother setting the gear mesh anymore. The spur gear's bearings are so badly worn that the mesh varies from super tight to so loose it's amazing that they still touch while it's going. As a result, it ate clutch bells. Five tanks was all I could get out of them.

nitrosportsandrunner

wow, so now you want a affordable nitro SCT with a beast of a motor that also has reverse!

dont want much do you....lol.

but i hear you, it would be nice if the big name companies could build the models exactly how we want.

im wishing redcat would come out with a shaft driven crawler to compete with the axial myself.

flysky does have a 6ch stick 2.4ghz radio that im pretty sure could be bound to the redcat Rx(seeing how its a re-branded flysky unit)


sounds like you are conflicted....you want rock bottom prices, yet you want the big name parts, futaba, MG, hitech and the like. Nothing wrong with any of that stuff, but it does cost a pretty penny.

sounds like you should look for a decent roller! then add your choice of motor/servo/radio.
bet if you look hard you could find a aftershock roller for $150 or a slayer roller for half the cost of a RTR. Then it might be worth it to add in all your favorite companents.

378

My Feedback: (4)

lol well I don't need an engine that wins races. I just want one that's reliable and has more torque than the chassis can put to the ground. You could liken it to a Fox Mustang with a 460ci V8 in the front. Slow, handles like arse, but I'm having too much fun doing donuts to care!

IMO an affordable nitro SCT, brand new, would be between 250 for 2WD forward only models and 350 for 4WD with reverse. This would leave a market open for the Slayer and SC8, yet give those of us who insist on nitro yet can't afford those two options something we can afford.

I wouldn't mind a nitro crawler myself, partly because it'd be unique and partly because if I wanted to I could still haul ass. The electric crawlers fail on the second front pretty hard since the types of motors that haul ass don't really do well when crawling and crawler motors don't rev high enough to haul ass. Glow engines are a bit more versatile, as you can have a torque monster that will still rev high enough to push a crawler well past it's comfort zone. Couple that with a two speed gearbox and we have a 40MPH land based ballistic missile that can still climb up rocks with the best of 'em.


Traxxas has a good idea with the Summit in this regard. They have a two speed manual gearbox and lockable diffs. If you want to haul ass you can lock the rear diff, or leave both diffs open if handling is on the menu, throw it in high range, and hit 30-35MPH. But if you want to crawl you can lock the diffs, throw it in low range, and hit the rocks. This is all controlled from the transmitter to boot. Now I know the Summitt is rubbish for srs crawling, what with all that independent suspension and all, but for the crawling I would do a Summit would be more than enough. This crawling amounts to climbing around a burn pile and/or pulling itself out of a ditch when my hamfistedness catches up with high speed hijinks.

If only there was a nitro version...


Perhaps. But I can get a 2.4ghz 4YF for 99.99, and I love the looks of the Futaba radio as much as the futabaness. It looks classy, like something you'd see on a shelf in Bill Gate's third mansion.

I'll see if I can find that Flysky unit.


Not really. Sure their flagship models do but they make budget minded stuff too. Futaba, for example, makes a 2ch stick radio on AM that comes with two S3003 servos for only 44.99 @ Tower, and you can get an OS .15 CV-RX for roundabout a single Benjamin after shipping. You don't have to spend a fortune to get brand name parts.

Not that I necessarily want rock bottom prices. There's a difference between 'affordable' and 'cheap as dirt'. I am willing to spend a few more bucks if it means I get better parts support, or better quality, or better performance.

that's what I did with my NTC3 .


Probably. As I said I did that with my NTC3 and got an excellent little rally car out of the deal. Tough, reliable, fun to drive, and if I want it to be it will haul some serious ass on the pavement too. I had to fit my receiver, engine and S3003 servo to make it work(I kept the stock AE metal-gear steering servo because, hey, it's metal geared and thusly better than anything else I have on hand), fitted my CEN's springs and backed the droop screws out to achieve a decent lift, then added rally tires, an El Camino shell and some NASCAR style rims. I still need to do more setup tweaking but it is made of win.

djyjrlz

well I have a project in mind... <div>my old-ish hpi firestorm 10t that has been lounging around for the last few weeks seems the perfect candidate for a conversion, just any sct body and wheels as well as some standard hubs. although the wheelbase is slightly shorter its nothing a dremel cant fix [&gt;:]</div><div>seems quite straight forward. </div>

sloppyG

agreed, and I think people over think how many moving parts are in these nitro engines,

compared to something that's in your real car, a RC nitro engine is much much simpler, and not hard to work on or tune

djyjrlz

you can basically slap parts together from different nitro rc engines in your spares box and have it running that day, they are not complicated if you take the time to remember where the parts go :P  the problem is the finer tuned the engine is the easier it is to damage them and throw away your money. and the stories of racing engines exploding because he ran it 0.3 degrees too hot have filtered down and have been told to the newer people in rc'ing. its the reason people worry about buying a nitro rc because the engine will be so temperamental about weather and which colour hat you are wearing. old wives tales spread by the purely brushless crowd.

The_Shark

yeah, racers that blow thier engines are running them to thier limits and then go one step futher.

i had my picco powered T-maxx out a few weeks ago at 17F weather, today i started it right up and ran it fine at 66F, just a 1/4 turn in and even that was'nt required.

revo_sbs

My Feedback: (23)

My .02 cents.

The main reason you see so many new introductions of electric vehicles in the last few years is because of the technology jump in electric rc. When I first got into the hobby (1990's) there was no brushless, Li-po, and nimh. At the time nitro was the way to go. they were faster and easier to make go (fill a tank v.s wait an hour). With the introduction of the brushless motors and high powered batteries the rc world has seen a shift from nitro to electric.

On the other hand I think the price of nitro fuel is a big factor that stores people away from nitro. In all honesty nitro is a bit pricy. If a manufacturer could manufacture a quality fuel for a decent price ie. $20 a gal. I think there would be more nitro users out there.

I am a nitro fan personally. I really like the sound, smell, and sight of that light blue exhaust as it exits the pipe. I enjoy tuning a nitro engine. For me electric is just not as exciting and seems to be lazy in my opinion. Plug and go. To me nitro seems more like a hobby that keeps me entertained.

ThunderbirdJunkie

My Feedback: (3)

If you want one, build your own nitro SCT.

The Losi Ten SCT-E is easily converted to a nitro. Remember, it's based on the 810 and Ten T; both nitro.
The Hyper 10SC and Jammin SC are both very based on nitro trucks; the Jammin version even comes as a nitro.
The Losi XXX-SCT has a few stepsiblings that are nitro; the Speed NT, the XXX-NT AD/AD2, and the XXX-NT OG.
The RC10GT2 even has a conversion kit out there to convert it to an SC10GT.

ThunderbirdJunkie intends to race his XXX-NT AD2 converted into a short course truck with other 2w electric short course trucks.
As it sits, the 12TR in the AD2 will keep up with, if not flat out stomp a mudhole in all, without exception, of the 2wd short course trucks in acceleration, regardless of motor combination.

That being said...somebody needs to find ThunderbirdJunkie the old instructions for the XXX-NT MIP stinger, so he can have a super kewl XXX-SCNT TBJ edition with a rear-exit exhaust and figure out what to do about the shock tower.

Nitro SCT's are closer than you think; while just a few short years ago gas truck was phased out because of the popularity of 1/8 scale racing, ThunderbirdJunkie also sees the gas truck resurrection in 2wd Nitro SCT and 4wd Nitro SCT.

That being said...2w gas truck is the only good nitro racing class. All others are silly BS that makes ThunderbirdJunkie's eyes roll.

Let's remember something. Back in the early 90s, the birth of gas truck racing, started with conversions for the Losi and Associated electric trucks made by Dynamite and Duratrax, which were preceded by guys making crap in their garage.

djyjrlz

all innovations have to start somewhere even if it is just bolted together crap from someone's garage

378

My Feedback: (4)

That's likely what I will end up doing. I want a nitro S/C, can't find one that suits my purposes and is in my budget, so there's only one course of action left.


Cue the music!

Didn't know that.

Hyper 10-SC is available as a nitro roller on Tower for 250. Just add smallblock engine and radio. After doing that, though, the price is quite up there, as I'd opt for a .18 and a 2.4ghz Futaba stick radio.

Huh. Cool. Not sure about getting a Losi, though. They're good trucks but parts are a PITA to find 'round here. Nobody stocks it. So if I can't get parts direct or from Tower I don't want it.

That kit's been released? Sweet. I'm most likely to go this route if I convert a truck, I can snag a used GT2 for roundabout 150 and replace any worn parts during conversion.

ThunderbirdJunkie

My Feedback: (3)

You can get a new FT GT2 from AE's site for about the same

This is a picture of the XXX-SCNT mockup. The chassis is mostly done now, can't find the picture though.

378

My Feedback: (4)

Really? Tower has the FT at 270 and the RTR at 290-300.

But hey if I can snag a brand new FT for 150 I can put the kit in while I build it. I just hope it comes with side exhaust manifold and pull start mounts, because most likely I'm putting an .18 CV-RX in. I adore those things, excellent motors for bashing.


Maybe a .15 CV-RX if I want to race, as I believe my local off-road track allows .15s.

I'm more interested in what that bullet goes in . Nice conversion though.
Inorite? The sound, the smell, and the sight is what keeps me running nitro.


And the cost. For the price of a good brushless system that would merely equal my engine and two high-capacity lipos(I run for an hour at a go, highest capacity lipo I can find will only last 30-45 minutes) I could buy a whole new car.
That's what I tell newbies. Get a well made engine and it's no harder to work than an electric, and that reliablity is 75% the user anyways. Even a crummy engine can be fun and will behave itself if treated right.

Sounds like my NTC3. I gave both needles 1/8 turn to adjust from winter to summer, and I boosted the idle speed 1/4 turn, that's it. Then again I like to run mine a bit fat for longevity's sake. It still gets hot enough to expand the sleeve properly, so the extra oil won't hurt anything.

suburban_hooligan

<div>i voted for I think nitro sucks so nobody should be allowed to run it.  but only to tick off 378 cause i know he's a diehard nitro guy. </div><div> </div><div>in reality "I agree, but I wouldn't buy one. My neighbors are noise nazis" pretty much sums it up.  plus i just prefer electric and i hate that high pitched kicked in the nuts squeal of nitro engines and the mexican leaf blower sounding gas engines.  seriously they need to quiet those things down.  the fumes are fun though </div>

378

My Feedback: (4)

That wail is music to my ears. It sounds like an F1 car.