Introducing the XP-1 "ORION"
08-30-2003, 11:19 PM
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okay who is ed? hehe..??
So adding anhedral to the high wing and some washout perhaps.. and some diehedral in the fins will help true it out. Don't you think this will be easier to fly then the V-Tail.. or should i go back to a straight wing, and less exotic convential tail?
-Paul
So adding anhedral to the high wing and some washout perhaps.. and some diehedral in the fins will help true it out. Don't you think this will be easier to fly then the V-Tail.. or should i go back to a straight wing, and less exotic convential tail?
-Paul
08-30-2003, 11:20 PM
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The pond racer proved to be a pretty stable aircraft.. this is just a more robust forgiving version.. i'd think.. that's why I would think it would fly somewhat well..
Paul
Paul
08-31-2003, 12:27 AM
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Paul:
With a user name of Wiper Ed you must expect to be called Ed now and then.
And keep your current basic layout. If nothing else you'll have the only one like it. At least for a while.
Yes, the Pond was surprisingly stable. But the Jap engines did it in.
And I forgot about Burt Rutan's tip stall eliminator on the Pond Racer until a few minutes ago. The LE reverses at the tips.
Here's a shot of the Pond from underneath.
Bill.
With a user name of Wiper Ed you must expect to be called Ed now and then.
And keep your current basic layout. If nothing else you'll have the only one like it. At least for a while.
Yes, the Pond was surprisingly stable. But the Jap engines did it in.
And I forgot about Burt Rutan's tip stall eliminator on the Pond Racer until a few minutes ago. The LE reverses at the tips.
Here's a shot of the Pond from underneath.
Bill.
08-31-2003, 02:55 AM
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Introducing the XP-1 "ORION"
Originally posted by William Robison
Paul:
With a user name of Wiper Ed you must expect to be called Ed now and then.
Paul:
With a user name of Wiper Ed you must expect to be called Ed now and then.
And keep your current basic layout. If nothing else you'll have the only one like it. At least for a while.
Yes, the Pond was surprisingly stable. But the Jap engines did it in.
And I forgot about Burt Rutan's tip stall eliminator on the Pond Racer until a few minutes ago. The LE reverses at the tips.
Yes, the Pond was surprisingly stable. But the Jap engines did it in.
And I forgot about Burt Rutan's tip stall eliminator on the Pond Racer until a few minutes ago. The LE reverses at the tips.
Here's a shot of the Pond from underneath.
Bill.
Bill.
PA
08-31-2003, 11:06 AM
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Okay here is closer back to my basic design.... Will be a lot easier to fly then the forward swept wing.. say how do forward swept tails do on r/c do they do alright.. i.e forward sweeping vertical and horizontal convential tail fins?
-Paul
-Paul
Originally posted by William Robison
And keep your current basic layout. If nothing else you'll have the only one like it. At least for a while.
Bill.
And keep your current basic layout. If nothing else you'll have the only one like it. At least for a while.
Bill.
08-31-2003, 01:38 PM
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haha.. i'm not at all worried about anyone stealing my designs unlike some people on here.. hell it's all been done before a million times over in a million different ways. Besides you have to be either crazy or stupid to spend all your time building prototype's that may crash before even getting off the ground. Thankfully I am crazy and stupid.. so this is a great hobby for me! lol..
PA
PA
Originally posted by AmishWarlord
Looks great!
*coppies desighn and runs off to Kinko's to have it enlaged to 96"*
Looks great!
*coppies desighn and runs off to Kinko's to have it enlaged to 96"*
08-31-2003, 02:19 PM
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Paul:
Speculation. Viper, Red could mean Coral Snake. Is that it? Or are you a "Window Wiping Communist" who happens to be from East Germany and therefore says "Vindow Viper Red?" Or maybe you're just a low down belly-sliding snake with red hair.
Haw. Fun playing with a lot of the usernames here. All teasing, of course, with tongue firmly in cheek.
Keep the forward sweep. With the fuselage proportioned and positioned as it is you'll find the plane a lot easier to balance.
I don't know of any plane ever build with forward sweep on the empennage leading edges. And other than appearance, I can't think of any reason for it. It would have the same disadvantages as a forward sweep on the wing; sudden stall, and tendency to flex induced flutter. If the designer wants the aerodynamic center of the empennage further forward he'll shorten the fuselage and save weight. Flex, as stated before, isn't a consideration in what you are doing, so have at it.
Al Mooney's designs use an absolutely straight LE on the empennage, in the attached picture it almost looks like it's swept forward, but it really is straight.
It's a Mooney Mk 20, a very nice GA plane. With a 210hp engine it gives better overall performance than a Piper Cherokee 6-300, and does it with 1/3 less power. But you have to be on very good terms with your passengers, it's about the most cramped 4 psgr plane I've ever been in.
Bill.
Speculation. Viper, Red could mean Coral Snake. Is that it? Or are you a "Window Wiping Communist" who happens to be from East Germany and therefore says "Vindow Viper Red?" Or maybe you're just a low down belly-sliding snake with red hair.
Haw. Fun playing with a lot of the usernames here. All teasing, of course, with tongue firmly in cheek.
Keep the forward sweep. With the fuselage proportioned and positioned as it is you'll find the plane a lot easier to balance.
I don't know of any plane ever build with forward sweep on the empennage leading edges. And other than appearance, I can't think of any reason for it. It would have the same disadvantages as a forward sweep on the wing; sudden stall, and tendency to flex induced flutter. If the designer wants the aerodynamic center of the empennage further forward he'll shorten the fuselage and save weight. Flex, as stated before, isn't a consideration in what you are doing, so have at it.
Al Mooney's designs use an absolutely straight LE on the empennage, in the attached picture it almost looks like it's swept forward, but it really is straight.
It's a Mooney Mk 20, a very nice GA plane. With a 210hp engine it gives better overall performance than a Piper Cherokee 6-300, and does it with 1/3 less power. But you have to be on very good terms with your passengers, it's about the most cramped 4 psgr plane I've ever been in.
Bill.
08-31-2003, 02:36 PM
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Actually Viper Red.. it's a long story.. just my hacker handle back when I used to do more well lets say not as "PC" things with computers hehe.. your not with the FBI are you? j/k
haha now he tells me keep the foward sweep in the wing hehe.. i just took it all out.. I think it actually looks better.. w/o it.. the more i've tinkered with this design the more close I come to getting what I want.. and now i'm just doing my final lay-out. It's good to have settled on a final design.. it looks a little like the last one I posted up above (w/ no forward sweep) except this one has a better nose area... i'll post it when in finished.. should be kewl.. I've designed enough though.. i need to get onto the building :-)
PA
haha now he tells me keep the foward sweep in the wing hehe.. i just took it all out.. I think it actually looks better.. w/o it.. the more i've tinkered with this design the more close I come to getting what I want.. and now i'm just doing my final lay-out. It's good to have settled on a final design.. it looks a little like the last one I posted up above (w/ no forward sweep) except this one has a better nose area... i'll post it when in finished.. should be kewl.. I've designed enough though.. i need to get onto the building :-)
PA
Originally posted by William Robison
Paul:
Speculation. Viper, Red could mean Coral Snake. Is that it? Or are you a "Window Wiping Communist" who happens to be from East Germany and therefore says "Vindow Viper Red?" Or maybe you're just a low down belly-sliding snake with red hair.
Haw. Fun playing with a lot of the usernames here. All teasing, of course, with tongue firmly in cheek.
Keep the forward sweep. With the fuselage proportioned and positioned as it is you'll find the plane a lot easier to balance.
I don't know of any plane ever build with forward sweep on the empennage leading edges. And other than appearance, I can't think of any reason for it. It would have the same disadvantages as a forward sweep on the wing; sudden stall, and tendency to flex induced flutter. If the designer wants the aerodynamic center of the empennage further forward he'll shorten the fuselage and save weight. Flex, as stated before, isn't a consideration in what you are doing, so have at it.
Al Mooney's designs use an absolutely straight LE on the empennage, in the attached picture it almost looks like it's swept forward, but it really is straight.
It's a Mooney Mk 20, a very nice GA plane. With a 210hp engine it gives better overall performance than a Piper Cherokee 6-300, and does it with 1/3 less power. But you have to be on very good terms with your passengers, it's about the most cramped 4 psgr plane I've ever been in.
Bill.
Paul:
Speculation. Viper, Red could mean Coral Snake. Is that it? Or are you a "Window Wiping Communist" who happens to be from East Germany and therefore says "Vindow Viper Red?" Or maybe you're just a low down belly-sliding snake with red hair.
Haw. Fun playing with a lot of the usernames here. All teasing, of course, with tongue firmly in cheek.
Keep the forward sweep. With the fuselage proportioned and positioned as it is you'll find the plane a lot easier to balance.
I don't know of any plane ever build with forward sweep on the empennage leading edges. And other than appearance, I can't think of any reason for it. It would have the same disadvantages as a forward sweep on the wing; sudden stall, and tendency to flex induced flutter. If the designer wants the aerodynamic center of the empennage further forward he'll shorten the fuselage and save weight. Flex, as stated before, isn't a consideration in what you are doing, so have at it.
Al Mooney's designs use an absolutely straight LE on the empennage, in the attached picture it almost looks like it's swept forward, but it really is straight.
It's a Mooney Mk 20, a very nice GA plane. With a 210hp engine it gives better overall performance than a Piper Cherokee 6-300, and does it with 1/3 less power. But you have to be on very good terms with your passengers, it's about the most cramped 4 psgr plane I've ever been in.
Bill.
08-31-2003, 02:37 PM
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Oh yeah thanks for showing the pic of the mooney.. will definitely take that to heart. Good way to get that swept forward look without actually sweeping the tail fins forward.
PA
PA
08-31-2003, 03:09 PM
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Paul:
FBI? No, but I'm a hacker. An original type hacker - I started playing with computers in 1956, hacker was a name of pride until the news sleazes turned in into a pejorative term.
Here's another Mooney design in flight, the "Mooney Mite."
And yes, enough bait cutting. Time to fish.
Bill.
FBI? No, but I'm a hacker. An original type hacker - I started playing with computers in 1956, hacker was a name of pride until the news sleazes turned in into a pejorative term.
Here's another Mooney design in flight, the "Mooney Mite."
And yes, enough bait cutting. Time to fish.
Bill.
08-31-2003, 03:27 PM
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Wow thanks for posting that pic.. that's a good angle .. and definitely inspires me.. it's kewl.. it gives the foward swept look on all surfaces including that wing and fins.. w/ the stability of still having straight (non-swept forward) surfaces.. interesting... I forgot how cool moonies are. Are there any twin moonies? anything you have pics of?
Originally posted by William Robison
Paul:
FBI? No, but I'm a hacker. An original type hacker - I started playing with computers in 1956, hacker was a name of pride until the news sleazes turned in into a pejorative term.
Here's another Mooney design in flight, the "Mooney Mite."
And yes, enough bait cutting. Time to fish.
Bill.
Paul:
FBI? No, but I'm a hacker. An original type hacker - I started playing with computers in 1956, hacker was a name of pride until the news sleazes turned in into a pejorative term.
Here's another Mooney design in flight, the "Mooney Mite."
And yes, enough bait cutting. Time to fish.
Bill.
08-31-2003, 03:53 PM
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Paul:
Mooney Airplane Corp is still in business and doing very well.
When they got the type certificate for the Mark Twenty the Mite went out of production, so the newest Mite you find will either be a reproduction, or more than 50 years old.
But the Mk 20 I posted was built in 1990, and if you want a brand new one go here:
http://www.mooney.com/
or just go to look around.
And no, there was never a Mooney design for a twin that I know of, and certainly never a production model.
Bill.
Mooney Airplane Corp is still in business and doing very well.
When they got the type certificate for the Mark Twenty the Mite went out of production, so the newest Mite you find will either be a reproduction, or more than 50 years old.
But the Mk 20 I posted was built in 1990, and if you want a brand new one go here:
http://www.mooney.com/
or just go to look around.
And no, there was never a Mooney design for a twin that I know of, and certainly never a production model.
Bill.
08-31-2003, 04:56 PM
#42
Introducing the XP-1 "ORION"
Originally posted by viperred
[B Are there any twin moonies? anything you have pics of? [/B]
[B Are there any twin moonies? anything you have pics of? [/B]
Actually 'moonies' are misguided bald headed individuals walking around airports in bedsheets. Mooneys are the progeny of a famous talented engineer and entrepreneur.
The original M18 Mite was powered by a four inline Crosley automobile engine and interestingly acheived a standard catagory type certificate from the old CAA . Mooney also certificated a very sophisticated version of the M20 series with a Porsche automobile engine that had single lever power management system in the ninetys. This computerized arrangement combined the function of throttle, prop, mixture and spark advance. It was a failure in the market place.
By the way Al Mooney cut his engineering teeth with the original Monocoupe company and I suppose this is drifting way off so please forgive me.
John
08-31-2003, 05:09 PM
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John:
Also interesting, the Bf-109 of more than 60 years ago, had a single lever power comtrol on the DB 601 series engines. No separate prop, throttle, mixture, and boost control levers. All done with one lever.
And as a side note - there are moonie twins, but they aren't planes. Consider the twin cheeks exposed when you get "Mooned."
Haw.
Bill.
Also interesting, the Bf-109 of more than 60 years ago, had a single lever power comtrol on the DB 601 series engines. No separate prop, throttle, mixture, and boost control levers. All done with one lever.
And as a side note - there are moonie twins, but they aren't planes. Consider the twin cheeks exposed when you get "Mooned."
Haw.
Bill.
09-01-2003, 09:48 PM
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FINALLY VAHALLA ..... THE FERRARI OF TWINS
Finally!! Design for the plan overview is done! Now to build a prototype 20"ws of this. Notice there is about a 2dg forward sweep on the outer wing panels. Not much but breaks up the dullness of the previous designed completely straight leading edge. All Tail fins including vertical fin are forward swept.
PA
PA
09-02-2003, 02:24 AM
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ROFL you like that.. hey i figure someone will take it anyway.. i just don't want to make it easy on them HAHAHA.....
PA
PA
Originally posted by AmishWarlord
LOL at coppy protect
LOL at coppy protect
09-02-2003, 02:59 AM
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Paul:
The way you did it makes it ridiculously easy.
In Paint Shop sample the red color of the printing, then do a replace of that color with transparent.
If you want to make it a little harder have the "Watermark" the same color as the drawing. Do a sample/replace that way the entire drawing disappears.
Just a suggestion.
Bill.
The way you did it makes it ridiculously easy.
In Paint Shop sample the red color of the printing, then do a replace of that color with transparent.
If you want to make it a little harder have the "Watermark" the same color as the drawing. Do a sample/replace that way the entire drawing disappears.
Just a suggestion.
Bill.
09-02-2003, 04:08 AM
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And it also makes it ridiculously easy now that you told everyone just how to do it.. ROFL
haha...
Actually if someone takes the design and builds it.. they'll be building my design, which is actually quite flattering.
VpR
haha...
Actually if someone takes the design and builds it.. they'll be building my design, which is actually quite flattering.
VpR
Originally posted by William Robison
Paul:
The way you did it makes it ridiculously easy.
In Paint Shop sample the red color of the printing, then do a replace of that color with transparent.
If you want to make it a little harder have the "Watermark" the same color as the drawing. Do a sample/replace that way the entire drawing disappears.
Just a suggestion.
Bill.
Paul:
The way you did it makes it ridiculously easy.
In Paint Shop sample the red color of the printing, then do a replace of that color with transparent.
If you want to make it a little harder have the "Watermark" the same color as the drawing. Do a sample/replace that way the entire drawing disappears.
Just a suggestion.
Bill.
