NEW Aerobatic Sport Jet "Rebel" from Pirotti Models Italy
#27
We are taking pre-orders already. Expected delivery date is mid January.
Please contact me for more info.
#29
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: , FL
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#30
My Feedback: (9)
I have owned 9 comp-arf aircraft, here the most common issues with Composite arf planes:
1, Glue not fully applied to formers, joints and other areas properly, this happens all to common, Com-arf uses this fiberglass/epoxy mix that is very brittle and has a tendency to chip away, many times I have seen an arf with partially missing glue, sometimes its easy to fix, sometimes not. I was about to get the skygate hawk, but then i saw one in person... F that... compared to the perfect seams of the tomahawk, no way I'll save up for the tomahawk (and pay $250.00 just for the packing boxes )
2, Oversize servo holes or sometimes missing, one of the biggest pains is composite arf stubbornness with oversized servo mounting holes, they claim there CNC machine can't do anything smaller than 2mm (which is crap because 1mm bits are readily available every where), so you are forced you to use there fat over-sized philips screws for mounting servos. If you aren't using JR servos well than tuff because the servo pocket and mounting screws are only sized for 8711 servos and are too big for hitech/futaba. Common sense would say, make the servo pocket fit futaba/Hitec and allow the modeler to enlarge if they need to put in a bigger servo. I have also had planes where the servo holes were missing, wouldn't be so bad if they were all missing (as I usually need to fill them and make new ones for hitech/futaba servos) but in this case, you have 1 out of the 4 missing so its just added work.
3, Careless Design, Composite-Arf frequently has these insane building techniques and some of these aren't even explained int he manual: case in point the Servos on the Carf P-47, the instructions say you have to cut a screw driver, add a brass rod about 24" and then re- braze where by extended the screw driver it to install servos... WHAT?? Don't even get me started on the composite arf 3.0meter yak, that's double hellish. On jets like the comp-arf Ultra Lightning, installing the Flap servo is IMPOSSIBLE without drilling a hole in the rib, the instructions (which haven't been updated form the original lightning) say ohh just try to install screws at a 35 degree angle, yeah just magically do that...
On my hangar 9 yak (also built by CARF, you have to saw out a 4mm think wood brace just to put the elevators in, but don't worry they still put a BS QC sticker saying someone reviewed it).
4, Paint seams on all jets is clearly visible, ok maybe not so bad, but every composite arf plane that I have had painted form the factory has this nice snot colored seam on the fuse and the wings, NICE...
5, Utter ***** 3mm linkages, these are the worst, looks like pot metal pushed through a press, the 3mm rods that carf gives you bend so easily they are worse than the 4-40 rod harden rods that hangar 9 gives you on there 40 sized planes, expect to spend another 30-40 on Steal turnbuckles or other stronger hardware to fix.
There are other issues but those are more specific to each individual aircraft; the above is pretty generic across all of there air frames.
WITH THIS IN MIND, I still think overall Composite Arf makes a great product for good value and that is why I have so many of there planes and I will continue to buy Composite Arf in the future. Compared to other manufacturers there support network is good, Andy Kane is an excellent rep and the overall customer service has been great. The pricing is also very good, slightly more than the Cheap Chinese stuff, but certainly not has high as some premium European companies. Lastly, they are proven air frames so you don't have to worry about them failing out of the sky and if they do they fix these issues very quickly.
So when an Italian made kit comes out, I am expecting to be AT LEAST as good as Composite Arf Plus more, meaning I don't want to see issues that are known with Carf, especially when it priced higher than comp-arf. So hopefully the rebel will have:
1) Proper and clean glue joints (just like my touno)
2) Allow support for all types of servos which can be enlarged to fit JR.
3) No crazy building process and easy access servo doors
4) No paint seams from the mold
5) Good solid hardware.
1, Glue not fully applied to formers, joints and other areas properly, this happens all to common, Com-arf uses this fiberglass/epoxy mix that is very brittle and has a tendency to chip away, many times I have seen an arf with partially missing glue, sometimes its easy to fix, sometimes not. I was about to get the skygate hawk, but then i saw one in person... F that... compared to the perfect seams of the tomahawk, no way I'll save up for the tomahawk (and pay $250.00 just for the packing boxes )
2, Oversize servo holes or sometimes missing, one of the biggest pains is composite arf stubbornness with oversized servo mounting holes, they claim there CNC machine can't do anything smaller than 2mm (which is crap because 1mm bits are readily available every where), so you are forced you to use there fat over-sized philips screws for mounting servos. If you aren't using JR servos well than tuff because the servo pocket and mounting screws are only sized for 8711 servos and are too big for hitech/futaba. Common sense would say, make the servo pocket fit futaba/Hitec and allow the modeler to enlarge if they need to put in a bigger servo. I have also had planes where the servo holes were missing, wouldn't be so bad if they were all missing (as I usually need to fill them and make new ones for hitech/futaba servos) but in this case, you have 1 out of the 4 missing so its just added work.
3, Careless Design, Composite-Arf frequently has these insane building techniques and some of these aren't even explained int he manual: case in point the Servos on the Carf P-47, the instructions say you have to cut a screw driver, add a brass rod about 24" and then re- braze where by extended the screw driver it to install servos... WHAT?? Don't even get me started on the composite arf 3.0meter yak, that's double hellish. On jets like the comp-arf Ultra Lightning, installing the Flap servo is IMPOSSIBLE without drilling a hole in the rib, the instructions (which haven't been updated form the original lightning) say ohh just try to install screws at a 35 degree angle, yeah just magically do that...
On my hangar 9 yak (also built by CARF, you have to saw out a 4mm think wood brace just to put the elevators in, but don't worry they still put a BS QC sticker saying someone reviewed it).
4, Paint seams on all jets is clearly visible, ok maybe not so bad, but every composite arf plane that I have had painted form the factory has this nice snot colored seam on the fuse and the wings, NICE...
5, Utter ***** 3mm linkages, these are the worst, looks like pot metal pushed through a press, the 3mm rods that carf gives you bend so easily they are worse than the 4-40 rod harden rods that hangar 9 gives you on there 40 sized planes, expect to spend another 30-40 on Steal turnbuckles or other stronger hardware to fix.
There are other issues but those are more specific to each individual aircraft; the above is pretty generic across all of there air frames.
WITH THIS IN MIND, I still think overall Composite Arf makes a great product for good value and that is why I have so many of there planes and I will continue to buy Composite Arf in the future. Compared to other manufacturers there support network is good, Andy Kane is an excellent rep and the overall customer service has been great. The pricing is also very good, slightly more than the Cheap Chinese stuff, but certainly not has high as some premium European companies. Lastly, they are proven air frames so you don't have to worry about them failing out of the sky and if they do they fix these issues very quickly.
So when an Italian made kit comes out, I am expecting to be AT LEAST as good as Composite Arf Plus more, meaning I don't want to see issues that are known with Carf, especially when it priced higher than comp-arf. So hopefully the rebel will have:
1) Proper and clean glue joints (just like my touno)
2) Allow support for all types of servos which can be enlarged to fit JR.
3) No crazy building process and easy access servo doors
4) No paint seams from the mold
5) Good solid hardware.
How were you treated when you contacted CARF about these issues ? I wont begin to explain some of the BS I have experienced
I feel your pain buddy -
I have come to the fact that any european product is manufactured with better QC - PERIOD !
#33
Well I'm really excited about receiving this new model from Pirotti model. Looks like its on its way to Florida.
If anyone is interested it will be Demonstrated and displayed at Florida Jet 2014.
Pablo
If anyone is interested it will be Demonstrated and displayed at Florida Jet 2014.
Pablo
#35
Mine in colour #1.
I have seen many kits over the years, but never a kit like this..
A jet model-melt of Ferrari and Lambo, hardware in the same level.
A cd whith buliding instructions, carbon fueltank and Hammer LG.
Nice work!
I have seen many kits over the years, but never a kit like this..
A jet model-melt of Ferrari and Lambo, hardware in the same level.
A cd whith buliding instructions, carbon fueltank and Hammer LG.
Nice work!
Last edited by Falcon 64; 02-21-2014 at 02:02 PM.
#38
Just purchased one of these. Any more photos of people's installations would be good. I'm going with a Jetmunts 100. Will I need much else up at the nose apart from the lipos to get her to balance?
Any preferred control throws, flap settings and elevator mixes etc.
Cheers,
Simon
Any preferred control throws, flap settings and elevator mixes etc.
Cheers,
Simon
#42
The 2m is a fantastic aerobatic model. Have a 140XBL Munts and power is perfect 10 minute flights. Electron retracts, 4 litres fuel. two receiver packs in wing pokcets, retract and smoke battery in nose. turbine battery in front of turbine, 11.75kg. Jeti Radio driven. Rebel Pro on its way when Mauro sends final invoice.
#43
There are not many threads to post on for this model. Thanks for the install photos. Makes life much easier to see how people have placed everything before starting my own.
Simon
Simon
#45
Thanks Alex, very nice install. Got electric retracts which have been factory installed so a lot less cutting than you had to do. Going to mount pump and trap in front of turbine and have all the flight batteries up front.
Did you just go with the factory settings for cg and movements? Does it need much elevator mixing when flaps are deployed?
Thanks again.
Simon
Did you just go with the factory settings for cg and movements? Does it need much elevator mixing when flaps are deployed?
Thanks again.
Simon
#46
Hi Simon,
The factory CG worked fine, I remember Ali tweaked it a little on the first few flights but that was just personal preference. I use around 20% more than the recommended settings for throw although a friend flew it last week and commented that it was a touch too sensitive for him. So I would say the factory settings are fine for the first flights then tweak to your personal taste.
Hope this helps.
Cheers, Alex
The factory CG worked fine, I remember Ali tweaked it a little on the first few flights but that was just personal preference. I use around 20% more than the recommended settings for throw although a friend flew it last week and commented that it was a touch too sensitive for him. So I would say the factory settings are fine for the first flights then tweak to your personal taste.
Hope this helps.
Cheers, Alex
#49