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How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
10-19-2004, 07:28 PM
#26
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RE: How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
I am speechless about that...soo perfectly said!
ORIGINAL: CAP232CM
I voted but did not see a spot to vote for JR 8411. I also use 5945's with no problems.
Everything can and will fail eventually. I for one am sick and tired of this discussion over and over and over. All you ever hear about are the failures, just think about how many thousands of Hitec, JR, and Futaba guys have no problems at all that you don't hear about. Just buy some servos and get on with your life. If you can't afford to crash a $8000.00 plane or for that matter a $1000.00 plane than you need to take up golf or bowling it's that simple. I would say at least 75% of the crashes are builder related in the first place, they just don't fail for no reason that often.
I voted but did not see a spot to vote for JR 8411. I also use 5945's with no problems.
Everything can and will fail eventually. I for one am sick and tired of this discussion over and over and over. All you ever hear about are the failures, just think about how many thousands of Hitec, JR, and Futaba guys have no problems at all that you don't hear about. Just buy some servos and get on with your life. If you can't afford to crash a $8000.00 plane or for that matter a $1000.00 plane than you need to take up golf or bowling it's that simple. I would say at least 75% of the crashes are builder related in the first place, they just don't fail for no reason that often.
10-19-2004, 07:41 PM
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RE: How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
Dan,first of all I don't believe you are speechless. Second, can you afford to crash that 40%,afterall,you let everyone know that you worked 60hrs a week while attending Notre' Dame and teaching the "old Farts" at your club how to fly inverted, while saving up to buy that plane with your own money. BTW,it is very admirable that you bought that with your money,and your video isn't bad either.
Mike
Mike
10-19-2004, 08:45 PM
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RE: How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
I have had two Futaba fail. I sent the whole system including the servos to
Pete Waters to find out what failed.
He found the servo had failed. The radio and reciever were fine.
I think anohter one fail on Sunday. I don't have the euipment or expertise so I will send it off for inspection.
Pete Waters to find out what failed.
He found the servo had failed. The radio and reciever were fine.
I think anohter one fail on Sunday. I don't have the euipment or expertise so I will send it off for inspection.
10-19-2004, 08:59 PM
#29
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RE: How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
I agree with the one person or a handful making a negative comment and than that comment magically applys to EVERYONE and every product a company sells.
ORIGINAL: jmiracle
but where is the PROOF?? Just because you "see" more threads about hitec servos causing problems doesn't mean there IS a problem! You even stated that the shortcomings of the 8411 boosted the popularity of the 59xx servos. So following that logic, wouldn't that indicate that Hitec is selling MORE 59xx servos than JR is selling 8411/8611's? And IF that is true, then it would also be true that you will see more failures. All it takes is one or two exceptionally vocal individuals to spread a bad rumor about a company....then before long EVERYONE believes that manufacturer has problems. Just look at what has happened with Aeroworks on RCU.
Why does it seem so hard for everyone to believe that Hitec is likely selling more servos per year than JR/Futaba?? They are less expensive and perform just as well, so I can easily see how hitec could be outselling the others. But again, until we see actual sales numbers from JR and Hitec, we'll never know for certain...and essentially makes threads/debates like this moot.
In the end, just use what you're comfortable with. I predominately use Hitec, though I have used JR. So far I haven't had any problems with either. (exception, the JR's did show more signs of wear than the hitec's....but the JR's were older and the wear was not unexpected).
but where is the PROOF?? Just because you "see" more threads about hitec servos causing problems doesn't mean there IS a problem! You even stated that the shortcomings of the 8411 boosted the popularity of the 59xx servos. So following that logic, wouldn't that indicate that Hitec is selling MORE 59xx servos than JR is selling 8411/8611's? And IF that is true, then it would also be true that you will see more failures. All it takes is one or two exceptionally vocal individuals to spread a bad rumor about a company....then before long EVERYONE believes that manufacturer has problems. Just look at what has happened with Aeroworks on RCU.
Why does it seem so hard for everyone to believe that Hitec is likely selling more servos per year than JR/Futaba?? They are less expensive and perform just as well, so I can easily see how hitec could be outselling the others. But again, until we see actual sales numbers from JR and Hitec, we'll never know for certain...and essentially makes threads/debates like this moot.
In the end, just use what you're comfortable with. I predominately use Hitec, though I have used JR. So far I haven't had any problems with either. (exception, the JR's did show more signs of wear than the hitec's....but the JR's were older and the wear was not unexpected).
10-19-2004, 09:00 PM
#30
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RE: How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
So where is the "Yes I have had JR 8411 failure" button. I would have checked it many times if it were listed and it was an option. So right out the gate the pole is skewed as those who have voted were not given a chance to share the experience with this specific servo.
The thing is as Marc pointed out the 8411 is the 5945's counterpart in the scheme of things. The 8611 is new school, supposedly all the bugs have been worked out that were in the 8411.
When Hitec's Titanium geared HS5995TG hits the market it could be compared to the low powered DS8611 I suppose........
In the end these are all good products.
The thing is as Marc pointed out the 8411 is the 5945's counterpart in the scheme of things. The 8611 is new school, supposedly all the bugs have been worked out that were in the 8411.
When Hitec's Titanium geared HS5995TG hits the market it could be compared to the low powered DS8611 I suppose........
In the end these are all good products.
10-19-2004, 09:39 PM
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RE: How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
Hey Marc,
Stop with the HONEST failure and crash analysis. Your taking away all of my crash excuses. If I have to take all the blame for those crashes I might get discouraged and quit flying.
Stop with the HONEST failure and crash analysis. Your taking away all of my crash excuses. If I have to take all the blame for those crashes I might get discouraged and quit flying.
10-19-2004, 09:46 PM
#32
RE: How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
Hello Paul
First of all, it would be a miracle For such a young company like Hitec, to have sales revenue that rivals two of the most well known, respected R/C company's on the planet. Actually, I have been flying with Airtronics, Futaba and JR for longer than 20 years, and with very few radio related failures, however I have had some servo failures in the past, mainly stripped gear sets and in a couple of cases loss of power within a servo. In most cases I was still able to land the aircraft. With all that aside, its the type of failure in the Hitec that keeps me from using one them in one of my $2000.00 - $10,000.00 airplanes. In these posts that I read, and from an incident I personally witnessed just ten months ago, they lock up, [
] in most cases, it would be nearly impossible to recover an airplane without destroying it when one of the surfaces are locked hard over.
Just my opinion.
Bob Sawyer
First of all, it would be a miracle For such a young company like Hitec, to have sales revenue that rivals two of the most well known, respected R/C company's on the planet. Actually, I have been flying with Airtronics, Futaba and JR for longer than 20 years, and with very few radio related failures, however I have had some servo failures in the past, mainly stripped gear sets and in a couple of cases loss of power within a servo. In most cases I was still able to land the aircraft. With all that aside, its the type of failure in the Hitec that keeps me from using one them in one of my $2000.00 - $10,000.00 airplanes. In these posts that I read, and from an incident I personally witnessed just ten months ago, they lock up, [
] in most cases, it would be nearly impossible to recover an airplane without destroying it when one of the surfaces are locked hard over. Just my opinion.Bob Sawyer
10-19-2004, 10:08 PM
#34
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RE: How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
ORIGINAL: Silversurfer
Another problem is that there is no limiting the number of times a person can input data. Sorta skews the results a little?
Another problem is that there is no limiting the number of times a person can input data. Sorta skews the results a little?
UH??? you can only vote once.
10-19-2004, 10:19 PM
#35
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RE: How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
Now paul (leardriver) is a good example here. He lost his first comp arf to motor failure and a tough deadstick landing. No servo failure. I think there were hitecs in that plane. The motor was a DA100 that had proved to run perfectly. However after something seemingly simple like installing a baffle in the cowl it was enough to disrupt airflow or have some effect to cause the previously perfect running motor to die which within a few moments lead the plane to its death. The point is that in the scheme of things the servos will probably rarely be the ones to "get you". The relative failure rate on any of them when properly setup and installed is so low that I'd worry about lots of other things before servos.
Also how many servos that DO fail are because of flutter, improper mounting, vibration, ganged together but not programmed or matchboxed with correct/exact subtrim or endpoints? Very easy to blame any servo for dying when the owner made an error in any of these instances.
Also how many servos that DO fail are because of flutter, improper mounting, vibration, ganged together but not programmed or matchboxed with correct/exact subtrim or endpoints? Very easy to blame any servo for dying when the owner made an error in any of these instances.
10-20-2004, 01:16 AM
#36
RE: How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
Agree'd poorly matched setups will have problems, with any kind of servo's. BUT, its the guys using one per surface and still locking them hard over that is hard to deny! Besides that... if hitec is selling them 5:1 of the other companies... there would be have been a handful of the other brand servo killed my plane threads... not so.
10-20-2004, 07:36 AM
#37
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RE: How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
Nearly every thread that has claimed Hitec servo failure has been becayse of a hard lock over to full deflection,and most of the time with wittnesses. Sure there are plenty of planes crashing due to pilot error and other equipment failure. What is the point that Paul's plane had Hitec's and he dead sticked that led to a crash ? I don't think any is suggesting that there is somekind to Grie-Grie on your plane if you use Hitec's and you will crash one way or another. Is it only people buying Hitec's that don't know how to correctly set up a plane mechanically or electrically, that's what always comes out of these post. Maybe Hitec should place a surgeon generals warning on the box that states"If you are incapable of a 100% perfect mechanical and electrical setup,do not use this product".
Mike
Mike
10-20-2004, 07:54 AM
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RE: How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
What I find interesting is that in nearly all of these threads, somewhere along the line it's discovered that a connection was loose causing poor signal/power to the servo...or that the servos had been involved in a previous crash....or there was a hard landing recently....almost always there's a REASON for the servo failure. I have yet to see anyone PROVE that the servo just failed all by itself with no outside help.....no matter what the brand.
In both instances that I have witnessed a "servo failure" (one of which was my plane that I crashed)...it was later determined that something else led to the servo failure. In my case, an extension vibrated loose, intermittent signal to the servo and the servo went hard-over....stupid mistake, lesson learned....haven't had a problem since. In the second instance the individual later remembered that he had been hovering over a pond the week before and had dunked the tail a little too far the last flight. A week later, and several more flights and that servo gave up the fight. Not exactly a big surprise....but again, lesson learned.
In both instances that I have witnessed a "servo failure" (one of which was my plane that I crashed)...it was later determined that something else led to the servo failure. In my case, an extension vibrated loose, intermittent signal to the servo and the servo went hard-over....stupid mistake, lesson learned....haven't had a problem since. In the second instance the individual later remembered that he had been hovering over a pond the week before and had dunked the tail a little too far the last flight. A week later, and several more flights and that servo gave up the fight. Not exactly a big surprise....but again, lesson learned.
ORIGINAL: Mike Rojas
Nearly every thread that has claimed Hitec servo failure has been becayse of a hard lock over to full deflection,and most of the time with wittnesses. Sure there are plenty of planes crashing due to pilot error and other equipment failure. What is the point that Paul's plane had Hitec's and he dead sticked that led to a crash ? I don't think any is suggesting that there is somekind to Grie-Grie on your plane if you use Hitec's and you will crash one way or another. Is it only people buying Hitec's that don't know how to correctly set up a plane mechanically or electrically, that's what always comes out of these post. Maybe Hitec should place a surgeon generals warning on the box that states"If you are incapable of a 100% perfect mechanical and electrical setup,do not use this product".
Mike
Nearly every thread that has claimed Hitec servo failure has been becayse of a hard lock over to full deflection,and most of the time with wittnesses. Sure there are plenty of planes crashing due to pilot error and other equipment failure. What is the point that Paul's plane had Hitec's and he dead sticked that led to a crash ? I don't think any is suggesting that there is somekind to Grie-Grie on your plane if you use Hitec's and you will crash one way or another. Is it only people buying Hitec's that don't know how to correctly set up a plane mechanically or electrically, that's what always comes out of these post. Maybe Hitec should place a surgeon generals warning on the box that states"If you are incapable of a 100% perfect mechanical and electrical setup,do not use this product".
Mike
10-20-2004, 08:52 AM
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RE: How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
"I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives."
- Leo Tolstoy-
- Leo Tolstoy-
10-20-2004, 09:24 AM
#42
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RE: How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
Oh yes I did loose my first 2.6 Extra when the motor quit (another story) but what Marc didn't tell you is that on the 5th or 6th flight of the the replacement the rudder servos (Hitec 5945s) went hard over 30 degrees and locked solid. Thanks to a very skilled pilot the airplane was saved (really a nice bit of flying) but the rudder servos were locked solid...both of them. Obviously one failed and took out the other in a very short period of time. Oh, and when I set them up I always use an Ohm meter to make sure that they are setup without any binding. Needless to say I am done with Hitec.
PaulP
"Leardriver"
PaulP
"Leardriver"
10-20-2004, 09:34 AM
#43
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RE: How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
Yet we're supposed to believe that there is absolutely no way the previous wreck didn't cause some unnoticed damage to the rudder servos when placed in the replacement airframe??
ORIGINAL: Leardriver
Oh yes I did loose my first 2.6 Extra when the motor quit (another story) but what Marc didn't tell you is that on the 5th or 6th flight of the the replacement the rudder servos (Hitec 5945s) went hard over 30 degrees and locked solid. Thanks to a very skilled pilot the airplane was saved (really a nice bit of flying) but the rudder servos were locked solid...both of them. Obviously one failed and took out the other in a very short period of time. Oh, and when I set them up I always use an Ohm meter to make sure that they are setup without any binding. Needless to say I am done with Hitec.
PaulP
"Leardriver"
Oh yes I did loose my first 2.6 Extra when the motor quit (another story) but what Marc didn't tell you is that on the 5th or 6th flight of the the replacement the rudder servos (Hitec 5945s) went hard over 30 degrees and locked solid. Thanks to a very skilled pilot the airplane was saved (really a nice bit of flying) but the rudder servos were locked solid...both of them. Obviously one failed and took out the other in a very short period of time. Oh, and when I set them up I always use an Ohm meter to make sure that they are setup without any binding. Needless to say I am done with Hitec.
PaulP
"Leardriver"
10-20-2004, 09:49 AM
#44
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RE: How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
ORIGINAL: Leardriver
Oh yes I did loose my first 2.6 Extra when the motor quit (another story) but what Marc didn't tell you is that on the 5th or 6th flight of the the replacement the rudder servos (Hitec 5945s) went hard over 30 degrees and locked solid. Thanks to a very skilled pilot the airplane was saved (really a nice bit of flying) but the rudder servos were locked solid...both of them. Obviously one failed and took out the other in a very short period of time. Oh, and when I set them up I always use an Ohm meter to make sure that they are setup without any binding. Needless to say I am done with Hitec.
PaulP
"Leardriver"
Oh yes I did loose my first 2.6 Extra when the motor quit (another story) but what Marc didn't tell you is that on the 5th or 6th flight of the the replacement the rudder servos (Hitec 5945s) went hard over 30 degrees and locked solid. Thanks to a very skilled pilot the airplane was saved (really a nice bit of flying) but the rudder servos were locked solid...both of them. Obviously one failed and took out the other in a very short period of time. Oh, and when I set them up I always use an Ohm meter to make sure that they are setup without any binding. Needless to say I am done with Hitec.
PaulP
"Leardriver"
10-20-2004, 10:29 AM
#45
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RE: How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
There is no way! The plane was dead stick and hit the ground at only a 10degree or so angle......if it was a Carden or some other wooden plane it prob would have only ripped the gear off, but because it was a comp-arf and the way they do the gear it tore out the gear plate and broke the fuse in half right there. The rudder tray and servos were completely intact and untouched in the back half of the fuse. The wires were not even tugged on as the reciever they were plugged into was again still attached to the same tray. I still have the wings, stabs/elevators, rudder (was sold to a friend but was perfect), damn near perfect.....the fuse was the only thing that was broken and that is simply the nature of a composite airplane. So to answer your question as to whether the crash had anything to do with that failure.........no freakin way! The back half of the plane was untouched. It landed in a "plowed field which was very soft in general. Oh yea...I also used an swb bellcrank on a carbon rudder tray (servos in line) to take any load off the rudder servos. I didn't want to but any undo loads on the servo splines if i didn't have to and I am sure that these servos were UNTOUCHED in the incident. If you want to use that as an excuse for the Motors and ICs burning up in the servo (Hitecs tech report..not mine) that is your choice. Go ahead and bury your head in the sand and pretend it's not valid. That is completely your choice. Oh yea, Hitec noted zero physical damage to the servos.
If you want to risk your $3000-$8000 plane to what many of us feel is substandard equipment because you trying to save a few bucks (not many when you consider the overall cost of these planes) it's your choice. That's what is so great about our hobby...we have so many choices. This thread really doesn't matter because the hardcore Hitec guys are gonna pretend that evey failure is the users fault in some way. Some will never have trouble and some will no doubt live to regret it.......not that they will fess up to it if (when) they do have a failure. If I had an 8611 fail I would post it. I doubt that will happen with the Hitec crowd. Hitec has develeped this reputation for a reason........lots of reported failures, not isolated incidents. Ask poor Jim McQueen who lost both his new 2.6 Extra (elevator hard over ...not a ganged situation) and his Dave Patrick Edge (rudder hard over...again single servo install) this season. Both 5945 servos. Nice huh? I bet Hitec sent him two new servos for his "sacrifice". Or would that be his "field testing"?
Ok, I'm done. I gave em a chance and they let me down so I am done with them. They had their chance and I ended up with $1300 worth of JR8611 for my big Yak. I don't care that the new "5995" is 300+ oz of torque because based on my experience and all the reports of failure (just do a search for "hitec failure" and you will be stunned at all the reports you find) I believe the failure rate to be higher than exceptable. It would take a long period (like a year or more) without hearing about further failures and an acknowledgement from Hitec before I could ever believe they have really upgraded whatever is necessary to make these servos reliable enough for me to gamble on them again no matter how cheap I could them. I guess it just comes down to pay now or......pay later with interest!
Leardriver
If you want to risk your $3000-$8000 plane to what many of us feel is substandard equipment because you trying to save a few bucks (not many when you consider the overall cost of these planes) it's your choice. That's what is so great about our hobby...we have so many choices. This thread really doesn't matter because the hardcore Hitec guys are gonna pretend that evey failure is the users fault in some way. Some will never have trouble and some will no doubt live to regret it.......not that they will fess up to it if (when) they do have a failure. If I had an 8611 fail I would post it. I doubt that will happen with the Hitec crowd. Hitec has develeped this reputation for a reason........lots of reported failures, not isolated incidents. Ask poor Jim McQueen who lost both his new 2.6 Extra (elevator hard over ...not a ganged situation) and his Dave Patrick Edge (rudder hard over...again single servo install) this season. Both 5945 servos. Nice huh? I bet Hitec sent him two new servos for his "sacrifice". Or would that be his "field testing"?
Ok, I'm done. I gave em a chance and they let me down so I am done with them. They had their chance and I ended up with $1300 worth of JR8611 for my big Yak. I don't care that the new "5995" is 300+ oz of torque because based on my experience and all the reports of failure (just do a search for "hitec failure" and you will be stunned at all the reports you find) I believe the failure rate to be higher than exceptable. It would take a long period (like a year or more) without hearing about further failures and an acknowledgement from Hitec before I could ever believe they have really upgraded whatever is necessary to make these servos reliable enough for me to gamble on them again no matter how cheap I could them. I guess it just comes down to pay now or......pay later with interest!
Leardriver
10-20-2004, 10:42 AM
#47
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RE: How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
I have it on good authority that this is all Marc’s fault. Actually aliens visited me in my sleep last night and carried me off to a secret manufacturing facility. Seems Marc started RCU solely because he wanted people to not trust any currently available servo.
It all goes back to NASA and the development of a new top secret metal during one of the shuttle flights. Somehow Marc, with the help of his alien friends snatched the technology and will be producing servo’s that have shown no sign of wear after 10,000 simulated flights, have a speed of .01 covering 180 degrees of sweep on a 4.8 V battery, able to lift 500 ounces straight up and weight 4/10 ounce. Centering is within +/- 1/10,000 of a degree. All this in a micro sized case.
Don’t like the way the servo is setup, just don your tinfoil like cap and reprogram the servo via thought process. This feature has also been discovered to have bugs and is what is holding up production. It seems the tinfoil cap can be made by anyone after a quick trip to the grocery store so you would not want to make your buddy mad or he might reprogram your servos during flight.
Remember, this is all secret, don’t repeat it.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
Sorry guys, couldn’t resist. I think this topic has been beat to death by both sides of the issue. Just trying to inject a little humor.
Ed M.
It all goes back to NASA and the development of a new top secret metal during one of the shuttle flights. Somehow Marc, with the help of his alien friends snatched the technology and will be producing servo’s that have shown no sign of wear after 10,000 simulated flights, have a speed of .01 covering 180 degrees of sweep on a 4.8 V battery, able to lift 500 ounces straight up and weight 4/10 ounce. Centering is within +/- 1/10,000 of a degree. All this in a micro sized case.
Don’t like the way the servo is setup, just don your tinfoil like cap and reprogram the servo via thought process. This feature has also been discovered to have bugs and is what is holding up production. It seems the tinfoil cap can be made by anyone after a quick trip to the grocery store so you would not want to make your buddy mad or he might reprogram your servos during flight.
Remember, this is all secret, don’t repeat it.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
Sorry guys, couldn’t resist. I think this topic has been beat to death by both sides of the issue. Just trying to inject a little humor.
Ed M.
10-20-2004, 10:44 AM
#48
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RE: How many failures are their with Hitec verse JR servos?
ORIGINAL: Leardriver
And yes Marc......they were setup with an ohm meter! You should know me better than that!
Paul
And yes Marc......they were setup with an ohm meter! You should know me better than that!
Paul
were they setup right before the lockover? I mean that day?
Also the poster above noting that these servos were in a crash could explain quite a bit. Although no physical evidence that would lead one to immediately to think the previous crash they were in caused an issue the fact is that you cannot be 100% sure. The fact that yours were in a crash and then failed makes the crash suspect as the cause.