banktoturn

Oldie,

I checked, and that is the correct site. Make sure you have the beginning part: "http://". I also checked into the old manufacturer of Hobby Poxy, a company called Pettit, which also produced model paints under their own name. They don't make the model products anymore, and the epoxy paints that they still make for boats don't come in the variety of colors that we like. The other option that I considered before ordering from Barlow's Tackle was the 2 part epoxy available from your local paint store ( I have found it at Benjamin Moore and Fleet Farm, here in Minnesota, but I am sure that it is available at a variety of paint places ). They sell a quart size, available in gloss white, and can tint it. Also, you can buy the tint tubes and do it yourself. One thing you can't do is tint gloss white and end up with black. I decided to try the tackle place first. As I mentioned they do have clear. I don't think Chevron is epoxy. There are a number of good polyurethane, alkyd enamel, and butyrate dope paints that are fuel proof, but I have never used anything but epoxy for planes, and I find its durability and absolute fuel resistance to be reassuring. Harry Higley's book, "There are no Secrets" has a good section on paints, in which he tells which paints are compatible with each other, so that you can paint color with a non fuel proof paint, and put a coat of clear fuel resistant stuff over it, as you were planning on.

Good luck,

banktoturn

049flyer

My Feedback: (18)

DMeyer:

I have done some research on the relative safety of Hobby Poxy and Super Poxy. Although I am no expert, everyone I have talked to, including manufacturers assures me that a regular resperator will provide excellent protection.

I have been assured that Epoxy paints are MUCH MUCH safer than automotive type paints. The automotive paints contain cyanide and require the use of "forced air" flitering systems.

If you have other information on this subject I would be interested in hearing about it.

banktoturn

2fast & DMeyer,

Pardon my complete ignorance, I know nothing about respirators as I have always considered an open garage door enough precaution for the small amount of painting I have done. What is a regular respirator, as compared to a chemical/organic respirator, where should I look for them, and what will I pay for them?

Thanks,

banktoturn

049flyer

My Feedback: (18)

Sorry about the confusion here.

A "regular" respirator to me is the organic chemical protection type that usually has two replaceable filters, one on either side of your face. Usually covers and is SEALED against your nose and mouth. You can buy them at Sears or Home Depot for about $35.00. This type should provide excellent protection against most types of commonly used household chemicals, insecticides and paints, including dope and hobbypoxy/superpoxy.

It is my understanding that some of the newer automotive type paints contain cyanide and are extremely toxic. They are also cumulative, meaning they stay in your system and continue to damage your body. You will need a very expensive filtration system that receives air from an area well away from the paint booth, filters it and then feeds it through a hose to your mask.


I use one when spraying and sometimes brushing dope and insecticides.


It is also my understanding that the EPA in their infinate wisdom much prefers the newer cyanide based type because they aren't as harmful to the environment. Nevermind that they are many times more harmful to humans.

Perhaps this subject would make a good thread. I'm sure there are others more informed on this subject then I am.

DMyer

My Feedback: (2)

This is a typical respirator:

http://www.penntoolco.com/catalog/products/3628.cfm

This is the minimum you should always use when painting. Having the garage open is no real protection from the vapors and airborne particles. I have the older style round cartridge 3M mask. The mask and cartridge will specify what they protect you from. You want an organic vapor cartridge that specifies it is for paints, laquers and solvents. These masks will only protect you from the typical paints/solvents we use in modeling and not from the very toxic industrial automotive paints such as IMRON. I know many people who do use PPG automotive paint with this type of mask however... I could be wrong but I don't think PPG type paints are any worse than our stuff.... however... cost and short shelf life keep the infrequent users from buying PPG.

banktoturn

2fast & DMeyer,

Thanks for the information. My assumption about epoxy is that it is a little less dangerous to work with because it hardens by a chemical reaction, and doesn't need to evaporate a solvent into the air. Perhaps this is not correct.

Thanks again,

banktoturn

Vince

My Feedback: (1)

Epoxy paints are far more dangerous than typical solvent based paints. The epoxy chemicals are some really nasty fellows, both to your skin and lungs.

Vince

DMyer

My Feedback: (2)

K&B Superpoxy and HobbyPoxy was shut down by the EPA was that the manufacturing facilities failed the EPA Volitile Organic Compounds(VOC) requirements. It was far too expensive to build new EPA VOC compliant facilities for the small volumes we use. One note... mixing K&B Part A & B isn't like mixing a batch of 30 minute epoxy for your firewall. The epoxy paints contain, and are additionally thinned for spraying, with solvents such as toluene.

banktoturn

DMeyer,

Good point. I suppose that's why the instructions for some of the 2 part epoxy paints tell you to wait for 30 to 60 minutes after mixing before painting; to let most of the solvents evaporate. I would like to think that, since the curing doesn't require solvent evaporation, there is less coming out of the epoxy paint, but perhaps that is wishful thinking. I forgot to mention that, for now, I brush paint that doesn't come in a spray can, so I don't have to worry quite as much as the guys that spray paint.

Thanks,

banktoturn

Oldie

Thank you BanktoTurn. I found the tackle shop on the net and was surprised to find it is in Richardson, Texas, a place I get to twice a year. I'll visit them.

I had forgotten Petit (sic) and erronously recalled Pacta as Hobby Poxey's manufacturer. Thanks for correcting me. You did your homework. I have a copy of the Harry Higley book you mention. Now where did I put it....?

I never felt my health was threatened by spraying either hobby shop epoxies or automotive acrylic lacquers and I did it for years. I sometimes used automotive acrylics as the color coat, spraying a clear fuel proof top coat of K&B or Hobby Poxy .

I took care to spray in a location that had good air exchange (outside usually) and in later days wore a 3M throwaway mask with organic cartridges that cost about $35.00. Instead of replacing the cartridges you throw the whole thing out and start fresh with a new mask. That's a good deal after you've worn a mask for a while.

Whether or not you replace cartridges or the entire mask, the chemical protection lasts about forty hours. Any mask should be stored in an airtight container to maintain the potency of the cartridges. Never spray without eye protection!

If you buy your supplies at an automotive paint store they can tell you which paint is safe to apply without using a self contained air supply unit. Imron is among the unsafe paints for those without appropriate self contained equipment etc. Avoid it!

flyindoc

My Feedback: (8)

I have used latex house paint with great results. I have a HVLP gravity fed touch up gun and a devilbliss 4 gallon compressor. I had Lowes match the paint to monocote and it was a near perfect match. You mix the latex with automotive winshield washer fluid (the blue stuff). Mix it thin, about 50:50 or 60:40 paint:thinner. It takes typically 5 or 6 coats to cover good. I then clear coat with either nelson water based clear, thinned with water or Deft brand clear. It is resistant to alcohol. Holds up fine on glow engines. I let it setup for one week and don't have any problems. I did a Midwest citabria this way and It weighs 8.5lbs. Saito 91 engine and a 800mah nicad pack. I also am lazy and built the wing out of foam, so the wing might have been 1/2lb heavier than the built up wing.

Try latex paint, you'll like it and it is available anywhere.

Andy