F-22-Raptor

Hey ET,

why so agressive?

I am just asking and the only thing I can tell/compare is what we are doing here in germany. This is nothing to do with patriotism, or the germans themselves. I easily could have said here in europe!

Most of the events held in europe have no registration fees whatsoever.

And: No I am not flying for food!

I just wonder why there has to be a profit? As long everybody can cover its cost, the event keeps more simple. I am organizing an event next weeken 8/9th of Juli. We expect around 120 Pilots these two days. Our club will pre invest in all neccesary things like drinks, food, tents, generator, speaker, camping space, toilets and so on. This is how we do it the last 25 years. Only once or twice we made lost due to bad weather.


Hey but guess I am thinking about to follow your invitation bigmouth! Give me the address I will find out the easiest flight whoch can transport my plane! You will take care for a room for me!

Then you can underscore your announcment!

pilott34

Why are we arguing with a guy who multiplies $200x100 and gets $2000, anyway?


[/quote]


I was trying to be bit more tactful...but true.

Mike

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

Your post DID come off as pretty agressive...

Are your events paying for LODGING, too? Because I ain't offering THAT!
The rest still stands! You can look up the event here on RCU for dates.

As far as PROFIT goes...like I said before...I think there is only a very scant handful of events here in the US that are run on a real for-profit basis. VERY few. And the rest are just covering their costs, maybe making a token amount for the club, if anything at all.

warbird_1

My Feedback: (61)

so i forgot 1 0 shoot me.

warbird_1

My Feedback: (61)

i'm a disabled person with only one income who doesn't want to go broke at every jet meet i go to . if you have the money to throw around then go for it. your no better than me just because you can .

uncljoe

My Feedback: (8)

Warbird 1
If its TOO much for you DON'T ATTEND.
Semper Fi
Joe

shanksow

My Feedback: (2)

Since I'm out of the loop now as for helping to plan out the JR T-38 Jet Fest (aka the 7th Annual T-38 Jet Rally); what information I have is kind of dated now. Thinking back over the past six years, then the T-38 Jet Rally was a pretty good bargin for the jet flyers.

But for more up to date information, go to the following web address ( http://www.wingsmas.com/ ) and click on the JR T-38 Jet Fest banner ad. I think last year, the entry fee was $30.00. Our club asked for donations of $5.00 (per car) to come out to Reese Technology Center (and that pass was good for the entire event). That helped to cover most of the expenses for the event. There was also radio raffle too. And after all the expenses were figured out, some of the money went to a charity.

This year, since the Wings Miniature Aircraft Society is expecting some vendors to show up, the club has made arrangements for the renting out of tents (hence, clicking on the banner ad will get you that vital information). I've heard of other events where the Saturday night dinner was included in the price of the landing fee (hence the landing fees climbing up into the $50.00+ range).

(Reason for Edit) I went and visited my LHS over lunch and told the owner there who is part of the current planning committee; about this thread on RCU and what I had posted. He asked me to come back and edit my post to let everyone know that the prices that I quoted were for last year's events. No THIS Years event. He reminded me that it is several extra days now (going up from 4 to 7 days now). Current landing fee is now $60.00 for this years event. That is all for me now.

t_burley

My Feedback: (59)

warbird, on paper what you say makes sense (kind of). but in the real world, it doesnt really apply.
We just recently put on a jet event here locally. and it was actually payed for (sponsored) by one person.
It cost a helluva lot of money to do it right. the key is right.

you have fencing, food, shirts, awards, drinks, tents, raffles etc etc etc. nothing is free except the help you can
get from the members of the club to help set up and tear down.

its not always a win win situation. some make money, some dont. I have never been to an event that I have
never had to pay. I drove to Texas in O4 to fly at Bomber field. 1320 miles one way, and had to pay
a $20.00 landing fee. did I complain? No. its all part of doing this.

if you think you can pull off an event, a GOOD event with great shirts, prizes, awards, and have the people
come back next year, and NOT have the pilots pay, great. but when you put on a large event, or small
event, there are costs inlvolved. on paper you buy shirts for X, and sell for Y. You pay for X for food and sell
for Y. You get free prizes and raffle them off, free income. It all looks good, but at some point, with all that
is needed for an event, money has to come in.

the pilots usually get a free meal, or a t-shirt with registration. now if you have 50 pilots, you just lost 50 shirt
sales, and 150 meals (if its a 3 day event, and you pass out free meals each day.) so you have to make that up.
it just doesnt pan out in reality.

most pilots I know have no problem paying a fee. these fees help offset all the costs that incure for that event.
most events are done to make money for the host club, that is the idea. you dont open a new business and give
everything away to make even, you wont be in business. these events are essentially run as a business. and in
alot of cases, they dont make money, and actually cost money

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

I sympathize. I myself am also handicapped, in that I am mildly retarded. Ask anyone here.

I don't have the money to throw around, so I just jump the fence and sneak in to most events. Works for me. I carry a pair of wirecutters, if it's a serious fence, so tall I cannot throw my planes over. It's no big deal, really.

A10FLYR

My Feedback: (1)

[quote]ORIGINAL: Andreas Unterbusch


Most of the events held in europe have no registration fees whatsoever.


I just wonder why there has to be a profit? As long everybody can cover its cost, the event keeps more simple. I am organizing an event next weeken 8/9th of Juli. We expect around 120 Pilots these two days. Our club will pre invest in all neccesary things like drinks, food, tents, generator, speaker, camping space, toilets and so on. This is how we do it the last 25 years. Only once or twice we made lost due to bad weather.

{quote}

Andreas,

You make it sound like your club pays all event expences and charges no fees? What do you mean by "pre-invest"? If I tried to get my local club to pay expences I'd get shot!!! They complained about the $1000 or so dollers we lost every "Denver Jet Rally" event that we hosted!! That was after the $25 entry fee.

mu2driver

My Feedback: (15)

Pay the fee, it does make sence to have a landing fee that will not only cover all the clubs expences but also make a small profit for the next years event or even field upgrades...

I plan on hosting a Jet event in the years to come here in Sunny Lake Havasu City AZ. Home of the London Bridge!!!

We are working on a New Field with Jets in mind, but I must say it wont be for a couple more years Sept 08 is when we will break ground!

the fee is nessesary, pay it...

George

My Feedback: (57)

ET, you can do that because all your planes are foam, not all of us have that luxury .

Serious though, I was in AZ earlier this year and two events were happening (1st Annual Desert Jet, and then Tuscon). One problem, all my planes were in Va. What did I do? I bought a jet case on RCU (just happened to be for sale), had it sent home and a buddy packed up MY BC and OVERNIGHTED to Phoenix while my wife overnighted my radio. I had no idea what the reg. fee was for Desert Jet, but I'll tell you what, it was much cheaper than the jet case and all the overnight fees.

My point? None really other than everyone has their limit and as Gordon stated, the fees are the least of the costs.

George

Turbulence

My Feedback: (76)

Warbird,

Are you inthe right Forum? Just poking fun at you. Here is the breakdown, when you are at an airport, well you pay fees on that and it varies depending on the airport and managers, when you do it at a club, you inconveniece all the other members that do not take part in the event. Now just o give you an idea, I am hosting an Electric event later this year and the club asked me to donated back to the club $5 for every pilot for each day he is here. Now are you going to charge the pilots every day in the morning before they fly? How will you enforce that. Now that is waht goes back to the club, what about the other cost already mentioned to put the event together? I am not going to gauge you but I will make sure I don't loose my butt off either.


Turbulence

warbird_1

My Feedback: (61)

gezzz you guys are cruel . i try to express myself and get f#@$& beat up for it . NICE !...........

jetsrfun

Some of us do not have a place to fly our jets except at a jet event. The local clubs will not let us fly at there fields.
I have no prpblem with there entry fees just so I can get in some jet time and keep current.
Fee,s seem to run cost wise with the number of days the event is held, having run many scale, pattern and warbird events
exspenses are really up there.
I also gone to a jet event as a flyer and never flown but still felt is was worth the fun and learning you can receive.
I love jet rallies, keep it up.

ZZ

warbird_1

Just curious as to which jet event you were referencing that prompted you to start this thread.

t_burley

My Feedback: (59)

I dont think anyone has really beaten you up here. you have made it stated that your opinion
is that these costs are ridiculous. thats fine, some others may not like them either. but the
hard facts are, these events are not easy to, or cost effective to put on.

everyone is entitled to their own opinions. but you have come into the jet forum, and being
a relatively new jet guy, started a thread bashing the costs of jet events. understandably
you are on a fixed income, others may be as well, but it doesnt help you out coming into the
forum here and start a thread bashing on costs.

asking about these costs, why these costs are incured, and possibly cutting costs would probably
have been a little more receptive?

Gordon Mc

My Feedback: (11)

I can't argue with that - the initial approach frequently sets the tone of the replies that will follow. A lot of the guys on here are like mirrors - show them politeness, you'll get politeness back ; show them some attitude, you'll get attitude back.

Vincent

My Feedback: (61)

Warbird wrote: <<gezzz you guys are cruel . i try to express myself and get f#@$& beat up for it . NICE !........>>

I think it has to do with that P-40 on your avatar... ha!! V..

warbird_1

My Feedback: (61)

that's a relief , i thought it was my breath ....

diceman

My Feedback: (10)

As a long time evnet promoter and having been involved with some of the largest events on the jet schedule, it's all about your frame of reference with regard to registration fees. Events at our club field are always pretty inexpensive - ususally around $20 for the weekend (2 days) for helicopter, warbird, IMAA, etc. Since some jet evnts can't be held at club facilities because there isn't enough room for spectators, vendors and participants they must seek alternate venues. Public facilities are not generally equipped to deal with the event so it's kind'a like the circus coming to town. Everything must be brought in, and when the event is over everything must be carried away. At your local club field most everything is already there for your local event, and it can't be transported somewhere else. Therefore and initial investment in many items is needed. That list grows each year as things need to be replaced and additional items must be purchased. In addition, if your event is succdessful, and continues to grow and expand, manpower becomes a critical issue. The large events require as much as three to four days for set up alone, and it doesn't get done by itself. Usually paid labor is needed. Tear down is a similar process normally taking two days or less.

When there are a hundered or more registered pilots, several thousand spectators, and fifteen to twenty vendors, a lot of space, attention and time are required for these folks. There must be appropriate crowd control, safety measurs, porta toilets, PA system, On-Site Security, Aircraft Storage, etc. The lsit is endless. And, I haven't even mentioned the issues dealing with all the advanced planning which usually starts the day after you finish the previous year. Then there is Advertising, Sponsor relations, asking for product donations, and on and on.

We still havn't started the event yet either. Line control, transmitter impound, prizes and awards and on and on. Oh by the way - there are all the local folks who have to be taken care of too. After all it only takes one disgrunteled airport board member to make your life miserable!!

Here is a short list of annual expense catagories (a very short list)

AMA Sanction
AMA Insurance
Pilot Awards
Sponsor Gifts
Advertising
Printing
Postage
Signs
Site Prep - at least 50 to 75 seperate issues
Porta Toilets
Dumpster
Security
Labor
Hotel Rooms
Meals
Misc
Misc
Misc
Misc

There are a lot of folks who believe that successful event promoters make a lot of money, and if you bilieve that working 12 months for 25 cents and hour is a lot of money you should try it sometime.

And, if you think $50 or more is too much to pay to participate in a great event for several days, have a great time with your buds, see the most hi-tech items in model aviation then you just may be in the wrong hobby.

KFalcon

My Feedback: (18)

Well said Dice and others.

I think there is a big miss conception for some about how much time and money it takes to make and event run. I know this because I too was very surprised when I did my first event this year. Dice really broke it down well so I won't go into that, but I will say that pilot fees are a really hard number to come up with. All a CD can do is base it from other events that are the same duration and size to get their magic number. I did break the pilot fees down once before on line, but here it is again. Just an example: $50 pre-register fee, 4 day event, one free shirt $10, two free lunches $5.50, Having 4 days to tear it up with all of your jet friends... priceless. $50-10-5.50-5.50= $29 $29 divided by 4 days is just $7.25 per day to fly and that doesn't include the pilot raffle prize. If the pilot entry is $60 then it jumps to $9.75 per day. So I think that the pilot fees are in your range of $10 per day at the end of the day. I think others were right on when they said that most CDs are just trying to break even and that the good time had is why they truly did the work for pennies an hour as Dice says.

FalconWings

My Feedback: (57)

cos he was thinkin pesos Taco Bell!

aparchment

Un-friggin' believable. First I have to say a heartfelt thank you to the guys who don't complain about the admission fee to the event that Ray and I host -- the Maine Jet Rally.

Now on to a counterpoint to those of you who complain about admission fees at events. To put it bluntly, it costs a lot of money to run these events. In our case, in addition to all of our event expenses, we also pay the airport for the use of the facility and the attendance (mandatory) of airport personnel to act as safety oversight officers. I think we broke even one year. One year we lost $1000 (messed up food ordering). I am happy to post my expenses for anyone to review. I have them going back 8 years.

We don't do this for profit. We do it because we enjoy the company of those who attend, the spectacle of the event and the opportunity to fly at a fantastic facility.

Just my several hundred dollars worth.

Antony

jonkoppisch

My Feedback: (162)

I have a slightly different pov. I've been to and flown at several different jet events and feel that SOME of them are a little high priced, at least for me. I guage it a little differently though. I usually only go for 1 day, not 2-4 so the price becomes a little more expensive for 1 days worth of flying. If you're going to stay there for 4-5 days then it usually becomes a pretty good deal but I can't get away for that long. Usually I get there early on say saturday and then leave mid afternoon for the trip home. Some of the points mentioned are free t-shirts (I've never got a free t-shirt from a jet event yet) meals included, usually evening and i'm already on the way home by then so even though it adds to the price of the event it makes it less of a deal for me, etc. Actually, most of the events that I've gone to have shirts and food for sale, not free. Nothing is wrong with any of these things... Just makes it less of a deal for me.

I think that many of the jet fliers here in this forum are in the upper leagues, that where taking 5 days, traveling long distances, getting hotels for a week, etc etc, isn't an issue so of course $50 or even $150 isn't going to effect them much

If i feel it's to much i usually try to go just as a spectator (which usually doesn't cost much) then come back to our club and fly on our paved runway, enjoy our free food (we're always cooking out), 275 ft pavillion, the running water and coke machine all for less than $100/year