Chronic

My choice to go with the LRP was because I didn't want to order my new engine from some hobby shop in Hong Kong. That was the only place you could find the SH at the time. Tower had the LRP in stock for $169, but I got one of those $30 off deals, so it was only $139. That isn't enough price difference to evewn talk about, and I had Tower to deal with instead of an outlet where I would have a greater chance of "warranty issues" should it be defective out of the box. I also felt better dealing with Team Associated and the LRP than having to go through Global Hobby if I had any issues with an XTM engine. It was ALL about marketing, and who was standing directly behind each engine.
There are two local Jeep dealerships that sell the exact same vahicles, but I know I will have a better experience at one than the other.... so I go there.

I haven't seen any mention anywhere about the LRP being better than the others, but I did feel better about going with that version.

The spec 3 is a different story though, and that's the reason you see the LRP name mentioned so much lately.

SAVAGEJIM

I agree that it is a marketing ploy. I just hope that each name has designed the minor tweaks to make their brand of the SH engine better. If this is not the case, then I will discard the idea of buying an LRP and simply buy the cheap-o SH (since it would be the same friggen engine)!

I now know why engine makers do not like to post their HP and torque numbers and dyno curves. The *******s may be trying to hide that one engine is EXACTLY identical to another name's engine while trying to sell it for more money!

The adoption of standardized fuel blends (best blends please!) and the adoption of the SAE standards of measuring HP & torque would help eliminate this ploy. The fuels could be standardized acording to % nitro. For example, 20% would be standardized to the best blend possible for 20%, 30% would be standardized for the best blend for 30%, and so on.

Based on standardized fuels and HP/torque curves, the different engine makers can adjust their output numbers by experimenting with different pipes, but to prevent unrealistic #'s they should also advertise at what temp the engine was at when they were making those #'s. Anyone will know that an engine putting out 4hp at 350degrees F is totally an unrealistic HP #!

Chronic

One engine might work better with one pipe than another, where the next engine might be the exact opposite. Some engines favor a higher oil content or a hotter plug. There are just too many variables for there to be any real standard testing setups. A better approach would be to expect the manufacturers to recommend a specific pipe, plug, and fuel.... then test based on those recommendations. The problem is that the testing needed just to produce the optimal recommendation would be EXTREMELY expensive, and then supplying all of the various components would be too expensive for whoever was conducting the test unless the manufacturers also got involved on that end of it too.

supertib

Global has 1000X better customer support then asociated.... Ask anyone about XTM, they stand behind their product very well.... Associated is much less likely to take care of you then XTM..Once the LRP is off warranty you can forget about any help. whereas XTM has a reputation for replacing engines even after warranty is over.

As well if you look at the actual case castings you'ss XTM has the nicer case machining and casting..

As well the New Spec 3 is not a true 8 port engine, as the 2 new ports do not ever hit the combustion chamber, as they are always below the piston face, they are transfer ports only.... You can actualy install the Spec 3 internals into the other engines in the lineup..

The SH 28 Prospec is not legally sold in North America, It is a Grey Market product when you order from Hong Kong...As Hobby people own the rights to the SH lineup, but they have the 457 so they dont bring in the prospec...

alvinl

Do you have any idea how many questions that answers for me? Thanks tib. I was wondering why Hobbypeople only carried part of the SH lineup. I mean, if you are going to carry one of their items, whey not carry all of them. That makes sense. I don't know if there's a kudos button on here, but if there is you are getting some...

Chronic

I had never dealt with Associated OR XTM at that point and I was just going on my observations that it was 100 times easier to find out info about the Associated products. I wasn't saying that either one had better service, I just FELT better dealing with Associated.

SAVAGEJIM

Same here. Thanls for the info. I did'nt know the SH engines are not US legal. er I don't see them at the local RC store.

IBrakeForNobody

My Feedback: (16)

Well guys, I went to the hobby shop today, and the guy said that the Mach 427 is one awesome engine for a Savage. He said that its all you can do to keep the wheels on the ground, and he said its one of the few engines that he's seen that can spin all four tires on an LST driving on asphalt. I was reluctant to purchase a Mach 427 because I wasn't sure if the cooling head was small enough to fit the Savage, so I ordered a standard Mach .26 with the blue cooling head. Plus, I heard that black crankcases obviously heat up faster than natural ones. Should I keep with the Mach .26 or should I go get that 427?

ThunderbirdJunkie

My Feedback: (3)

the mach 427 and mach 26 for all intents and purposes are the same engine. I have an M427...and it's sweet, but you're better off saving $20-30 on a Mach 26 and spending that $20 on an XTM backplate/OWB and converting your m26 to a rotostart.

supertib

The mach 427 is identical in performance to a XTM 24/7 pro.. It is a great motor... But the LRP 28 and SH 28 prospec are more powerful by a good margin... the 28's are from the same family as the Mach and have nearly identical characteristics... Anyways we run a mach 427 in a revo and its an awesome motor IMO....As well its power delivery is very smooth and controlled and wont be blowing your drivetrain every ttime you go have fun.

IBrakeForNobody

My Feedback: (16)

Actually, I am pretty well convinced that the [link=http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXLBV6&P=Z]Rotostart backplate or the Z.28R[/link] will fit the Mach .26 because the two engines look almost identical. But yeah, I agree; I'll spend the extra $30 on a Rotostart conversion.

ThunderbirdJunkie

My Feedback: (3)

All three (the XTM .247, the LRP, and the Mach 26) are SH engines...aside from the displacement and mild porting differences, they ARE the same engine.

IBrakeForNobody

My Feedback: (16)

Well, I am the proud new owner of a Mach .26, but I can't start it yet. The hobby shop didn't have the pilot nut I needed in stock, and the old engine used a clutch nut adapter. The first thing that the guy behind the counter said when I asked to look at the engine and he opened it is "Check out the cooling head on that thing!" I didn't realize how large the cooling head is till I put the Picco .26 Outlaw ontop of the Mach's cooling head. Guess there's no excuse to overheat it now. [&:][:'(]

SAVAGEJIM

Based on that pic, that is a really chubby heat sink! That thing should readiate heat quite efficiently. I wonder if such a large heat sink would cause some clearance problems when strapped in?

IBrakeForNobody

My Feedback: (16)

The cooling head is about 5mm from the side of the fuel tank, so if the truck lands on the left side, then the fuel tank might melt, so I was going to put a few pieces of 2mm silcone sheet on the fuel tank.

I also heard of backplate issues, but thats not much of a problem because I have the one inch extended TVPs.

IBrakeForNobody

My Feedback: (16)

I must be doing something wrong since I went to fire up my Mach today, and after about 15 pulls, I got a sputter and a start, ran for about 10 seconds, then quit. Another 15 pulls, and the pullstart handle was biteing into my fingers and I was bleeding all over the truck, so then I had to stop and clean all of it up. I tried direct priming the engine (fuel into carb and into glow plug hole) and still nothing. I did this maybe 5 times and still nothing. Needles are at factory settings. I didn't bother heating the engine with a hairdryer since it was around 90 degrees outside. My only guess at this point is that my glow ignitor isn't fully charged, so I'll charge it tonight and see what happens. The other thing I can think of is that the air is too thin for the engine to get enough air to run, but I doubt that. Its not really frustrating, but more discouraging. Right now, I'm trying to think of everything that could've gone wrong and what I could do differently.

ThunderbirdJunkie

My Feedback: (3)

did you reset the needles to the settings as the instructions instruct?

check your glow plug...you know how to do that right? you probably burned it out trying to start it and leaving the ignitor on the plug.

IBrakeForNobody

My Feedback: (16)

Well, I found out one thing I was doing wrong. I counted one turn as half a revolution of the screwdriver while reseting the needles just now. So I used a marking on the screwdriver to keep track of the revolutions just to be sure. The needle was 2mm above the brass housing on the factory settings, and now its flush with the brass housing on the instruction's settings, which is 3 1/2 turns. So the needle was approximately 5 turns out (this is the HSN).

Glow plug is good. Yes, I know how to check them. When you have several airplanes that only need new plugs once a flying season, then you get to know how to check them.

Another thing I did wrong: I think I flooded the engine with after run oil. I tipped the truck upside down for a second to get the glow plug out because it fell out of the wrench, and maybe 10mL of after run oil came out.

amec

Leave the glow plug out and turn the engine over to get some of the oil out. If you then pour a small amount of fuel down the carby throat this fuel will dilute the remaining oil. Get rid of this as well then you should be good to go.

bennyblanco

can it be that the engine is to rich.

IBrakeForNobody

My Feedback: (16)

I went to go start the truck today, with a fully charged glow ignitor and the needles at 3 1/2 turns, and it fired on the third pull! I'm halfway through heat cycling the engine, with about 14 minutes total run time on the engine. I started with two minutes, then two minutes, then three minutes, three minutes, four minutes, and the next one will be five minutes, and that's probably as long as I'll go between cooling periods. Five more five minute cycles and break in should be done.

Rather than start a new thread for a related question, what kind of glow plug do you recommend for a Mach .26? I'm running the stock plug right now, and I am pretty sure that I'll be needing a new one soon after break in.

SAVAGEJIM

If your Mach runs and performs great on the plug you have now based on your current weather and conditions, then after you've fully broken it in, get a plug with the same rating. I suggest you also get other plugs of different ratings so when the conditions change, you can advance or retard timing by switching plugs. All you have to do then is tune with the needles normally and get the needle settings to coax max performance for the plug you are using.

IBrakeForNobody

My Feedback: (16)

I believe the plug that comes with it is a short plug, so I'll probably get another stock plug. So, based on your response, for example, I should use a O.S A5 plug (cool plug) for when its really hot out, and a A3 (hot plug) when it gets cold out? What about when its 30-40 degrees out? I know to cover up the cooling head with something, and preheat the engine, but would I need to run a really hot plug? Thanks.

SAVAGEJIM

What you said is a good guideline. Humidity is a major factor too. It may be hot as brimstone outside, but if the humidity is particularly high, a hot plug may be required to advance the timing to bring out performance. Dry heat will of course demand a colder plug. It does take some experimenting, but knowing when to switch plugs is an art of experience, much like tuning with the needles.

I'm going to start recording the humidity and outside temp as well as what plug I run. That way, I will eventually have a quantataive data sheet that will recommend to what plug I should which based on the weather condition. I guess I should fist of all find out what altitude I'm at too.

SAVAGEJIM

I should also add: Your mention of running a hot plug during winter is a good thing. But if the enine begines to combust too far in advance from such a hot plug, then switch to a not so hot plug and tune from there.