AFTERBURNER1

My Feedback: (80)

Classic!!!!!!!!

JohnVH

My Feedback: (38)

subscribing!

someone already brought the popcorn, Ive got the beer! [8D]

Gordon Mc

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Although I share your concern that there are people out there who would love to curtail our activities (including within our AMA "leadership" ), I believe you are deluding yourself if you think that us not watching such a video will have the slightest effect.

Youtube is such a phenomenon that the videos will proliferate whether they are watched by actual RC jet pilots or just a horde of 13 year olds... and if the videos are gonna be out there, then we may as well watch them to see if there is anything to learn from them.

WhoDaMan

My Feedback: (164)

then we may as well watch them to see if there is anything to learn from them.



Thats the key right there Gordon

Dave

sirrom

My Feedback: (4)

Ok I have the solution. Everybody close their eyes and imagine that the UB is made by Composite Arf and that should allow all of you to get past talking about it and sharing the video. Then we could have a good ol' aiprplane bashing.

This is real BS, just because it is a BVM kit their needs to be some veil of secrecy? Why cant we just have the normal RCU discussion about this?

Patrick

lsu_fan

My Feedback: (43)

Guys I agree,Let it be known what happened.If it is structural then the other UB owners can take precautions.I do understand the concern of sharing video etc as some people will exploit it for their benefit.When a 40% goes into the crowd its tragic....but lets learn from it.When a heli hits someone lets learn from it.The fact is no matter what you are flying there is a risk.We all SHOULD know that.Whether its BVM,Y/A,CA,SM or whatever those owners can learn from mistakes whether builder error,pilot error,stuctural etc.

sc0tt

My Feedback: (61)

I personally witnessed the incident...
First off, I don't recall the UB being in a high speed pass when it broke apart. It had already completed a high speed pass and was returning on a downwind leg & had slowed to average flying speed for a jet in my opinion. From my view, it was straight & level, above & parallel with the runway, thus being away from any spectator or pit areas. For reasons yet to be determined, the fuselage just blew apart forward of the inlets - basically losing the whole nose. The rest of the UB (wings, mid/aft fuse & tail) stayed together & fell pretty much flat to the ground with no fire or even smoke from my view. Recovery was handled in a very professional manner & people who may have captured it on video were solicited.

Rumor at that time was that it may be canopy related, but is still under examination
I'm sure once all parts & video are gone over, the experts involved & BVM will let us know what happened.

...Scott

mick15

I own and fly an Ultra Bandit (that’s my blue and black one on the BVM site) and whilst I have had issues with it, which I’ll not elaborate on now, I do however question the method of canopy fitment.

When the canopy is fitted to the frame it has to be cut and fitted in two pieces, joined under the front hoop. This in my opinion compromises the strength of the canopy relying on a glue joint to stop it “blowing in�

If the canopy were to blow in at very high speed it follows the air has to go somewhere and as that part of the fuselage is an airtight compartment the fuselage will explode!

m

Woketman

My Feedback: (6)

The fulselage need not explode. There is a design tradeoff in play here: make the fuse strong enough (read heavy enough) to handle the added hoop stress of high velocity air intrusion (hoop stress due to the high local air pressure due to the air's dynamic pressure caused by high speed flight) OR preclude this situation by insuring that the canopy can not depart the aircraft or "cave in". The first choice assumed that flying around real fast without a canopy is a design condition. The second assumes that the canopy remaining in place and structurally intact is a design condition.

I suspect that BVM chose the latter design choice. But it, of course, remains to be seen if air intursion was even a contributing factor here.

We need video!!!!

AFTERBURNER1

My Feedback: (80)

So now it's come to this....

I wrote:

Take your HOVER LOVIN, PINE SWINGING accusations elsewhere and stir your own pot... AND IT GETS REMOVED?????


C'mon guy!! You need to find something else bettter to do than be a moderator!!!


MY PM I RECIEVED

j.duncker just sent you a private message at 7/19/2007 8:50:42 AM:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
RE edit on your ultra bandit crash post.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I have removed the pine swinging line.

IMHO it is a not a polite contribution to the thread.

Please stay within the spirit and the letter of the RCU rules.

This post breached both.

AFTERBURNER1

My Feedback: (80)

jroth

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Yeah, don't they swing Carbon?

McclureMitch

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That's what someone was saying about Shulman's crash " nose looked weird before the crash ". I don't think BVM will let us know what happened unless it was pilot error and that clearly was not what sc0tt is stating. I agree that if Skymaster, Comp-arf and the rest of them fail they get posted here, why should'nt they post BVM Jets having problems ?

WhoDaMan

My Feedback: (164)

.

rusty55125

My Feedback: (6)

I was also there and watched the whole thing and at the time of the failure, it was not doing an average speed pass! It actually was actually finishing up one of it faster down wind passes of the flight. I would be more concerned if it was going at a slower speed when this happened. The UB was very fast and fun to watch, but it's fortunate that it had already gotten past the show center when it let go. Although with this type of failure and the way it happened, it wouldn't have done any damage anyway other than to itself. It slowed down right away and floated to the ground.
Jets are great and fun to watch but doing so many high speed passes and hard pulls to demonstrate the capabilities can be hard on any airframe. The key is to learn from this and maybe do more inspections before each flight particularly after doing some of these demo flights.

AndyAndrews

If BVM's expensive flagship can't handle a couple of high speed passes.....

Simmons 9999

There was at least two videos of the crash that I know of. I understand that one was pretty grainy and hard to see what happened. I saw the result of the incident from a distance and did not see the canopy missing from the airplane when it was shot up to about 100 yards in the air. I thought it was a mid air from my vantage point. Parts were breaking off the wings all the way up. The fuse was pretty much intact. BVM builds a very solid airplane and this one, as his signiture model, is probably the strongest yet. It was very windy that day and the plane was performing a high speed pass at the time. My guess would be aileron flutter or perhaps even some type of radio snafu. Most of the guesses we have all made to the cause of this crash can be easily proved or disproved by looking at the remains of the jet. I look forward to hearing the facts when the time comes to share them. It was a beautiful plane and we were very glad to see it fly and very sorry that it came apart.

sc0tt

My Feedback: (61)

This thread is already full of irrelevant info & I should let this one go, but...
I assume you do not fly jets or have attended a lot of jet events (please don't take offense) I say this because most people are not used to the speeds involved & get the "holy $h!t" expression when they see this kind of flying. Yes the UB did do a haul ***** pass prior to turning on the downwind. However, the speed was slower prior to breaking apart. The reason I said "average" speed in my opinion is because I thought it was just that. Yes he was moving quick, but not anything excessive. You saw the kingcat's numerous times at roughly the same speeds. Go to any jet event and you see this over & over again without incident and it's not always reps doing it. A few of my club members used to comment I was flying too fast, but over time they realize its normal for jets.

Regarding airframe inspection - that should be common sense no matter what you fly. If you were trying to imply a safety issue let me ask this - Do you think hovering a few feet in front of your face is 100% safe? (check your avatar) I've seen more things go wrong & people hurt doing that than by any jet zipping by. No matter what you fly, doing it safely should always apply.

From now on let's just keep our opinions to ourselves. Only the facts from those directly involved should be posted. If there is an issue, BVM will surely have an AD posted & correct future product (ie the old kingcat booms)

Now lets all get back to flying & enjoy our great hobby.
...Scott

rusty55125

My Feedback: (6)

I find this very funny. Here I am getting attacked because i have a avatar of a plane hovering just in front of me. I like jets and was only looking for information about the incident. For you information Scott, I have seen plenty of jets and I don't just fly 3D, I fly everything!!! It makes you a better pilot. John, I believe that was the pilots name and sorry if that is incorrect, may have pulled the speed back at the end of that run, but that jet was moving when it went past us, getting close to the 200mph speed limit, I am sure and I am not the only on that saw that. If what your saying is that everyone is pushing that speed, all the time, than I guess your correct and that is the average speed, but that is a very narrow view of jets don't you think? Let just agree to disagree on the speed thing.
This post was just to see if anyone had figured out what happened. It was not and should be taken any other way.

Woketman

My Feedback: (6)

Scott had said that it happened after a fast pass, after turning down-wind (implying that the fast pass was up-wind). Rusty implies that it occurred at the end of a fast pass, perhaps during the pull-up, at the end of a low, speedy pass, prior to the turn.

Which was it?

If Scott is correct, then yeah, I doubt it was a near-200 mph event. If Rusty is correct, then yeah, it was likely a 200 mph event.

Which was it?

WhoDaMan

My Feedback: (164)

Lets ask ET he knows

So if there is going to be an AD on the plane,,,, were do they get their 15K

rusty55125

My Feedback: (6)

I was on a down wind pass, but a pass that was at significant power to develop the speed described. It was by no mean going slow and probably close to 200mph. If it was going slow, as has been implied, I would be even more concerned that a plane of this caliper would come apart in the air.

General Jake

It's a good thing nobody picked on me with my avatar. I mean, just because I like to drink wine and cut the lawn, I only occasionally run someone over.
Chris

f106jax

My Feedback: (16)

Chris,

Drinking, mowing lawn, and running someone over is not the issue. The issue is that you are not wearing a seatbelt.

sc0tt

My Feedback: (61)

I wasn't really attacking you - trying to be more sarcastic than anything else. I guess I just read too much into your comments about high speed, hard pulls then doing inspections prior to demo flights. Safe airframes are important whether your vibrating things loose in a hover or stressing it in a 200mph pass. I'm honestly sorry if I got you mad. (Guess I'm still a little touchy because I heard some 3D guy b!tching about the jets taking time away from the "aerobatic club" guys who traveled in from out of state. Then after the incident, he was kinda poking fun at it) No matter what we fly we should all respect each others interests to keep this hobby going strong.

What's really funny is all the different personal accounts I've heard. I was talking with some local guys & even we can't agree on the speed or if a vertical was pulled prior to break-up. The only way to know for sure is video. I totally understand why nobody wants to post a video. Look at all the bs Shulman endured on his UB - at least he responded & maintained his sense of humor thru the whole thing.

No hard feelings...Scott

At least he has boots on in case he spills the drink.