ChargedDust

I've been reading over your thread and there are few things that I learned that might help you out. First off, with the relative slow froward airspeeds of R/C helis I don't think retreating blade stall is much to be concerned about, others have already told you about shimming the T-holder, that helps. One thing no one mentioned, maybe because it's kind of obvious, is to check the "stems" (for lack of the proper term - the shafts that the blade holders go on) to see if they are still 90°, they have a tendancy to bend, usually in the opposite direction of head rotation, or up, from blade strikes and crashes. I've encountered "gritty" bearings in the blade holders, it would rotate smooth up to a point then it would hit the gritty spot and jump, kind of like a ratchet. This could give you a very jumpy collective. Another possibility for a jumpy collective is the settings of the PIT & PLT knobs. One is your pitch range, a higher setting woiuld give you range of say -14 - +14 (arbitrary number) and a lower setting would give you -2 - +2. So having it at a higher setting gives you more collective for each click of the stick on the transmitter. If you have a jumpy heli, maybe reducing the pitch range will give you better control. The other knob adjusts the pitch setting, the good flyers here recommend starting out with the minimum setting, bring the throttle stick up to the mid point and then increase the knob until the heli gets light on the skids. I like to do it one click below mid. As for the ducted fan, you don't need an entire fuselage for it, they do make vertical fins that will fit the fan.

rabfan

Yeah I kinda figured that the RC just wouldn't get into RBTS!
Thanks for the tips, I'm gonna check out my blade grips now.
RJ

roychye

Yeah i did notice the stems can get bended easily, they are just too ductile. It's quite hard to fit them in tightly in the slots and if the slots are worn off, the stems will say byebye to you when running at high speed ... so i glued them and make sure they are 90 degree right up, this will ensure the flybar is perpendicular to the blades.

I will try to reduce to pitch range to get better control , thanks for your help


warm regards
roy

rabfan

Well today ended rather early when I had a blade strike Both ball links snapped off the flybar arms and I'm out of spares. Oh well. I ordered a brass ball upgrade kit so I can drill hole in the links and replace the ball links with those.
Either way I won't be doing any RC flying for at least a week. Back to work on Tuesday flying the real machine. BV107. Talk to you guys later.
RJ

chopperdown

Why are you having boom strikes? A lot of people do. Ive had mine for 7 or 8 months and only had 1 ever. how tight are he blades in the grip?. Standard rule is tip the heli on the side, give it a tap and the blades should fall just a little.

roychye

Hi man, when you get back here you should find this useful. He is a good rc pilot.

quote from Dave

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ani8VLB7VHM

Here is a copy of my Rules of thumb that may help you.
RC Helicopter basic rules of thumb to insure success. By: Dave Herbert

Everybody has the same problem flying R/C helicopters. It’s the orientation that is so important and hard to do.

If you saw the second part of my video "Combat Helicopters", I gave that little Honeybee a workout.
I love to do that. But man...it’s like flying a "dot"! Hard to see!


There are a couple of my rules to follow that should make it easier for you.




You really have to understand what the controls do, to fly a helicopter.




I mean totally!

And there is no substitute for practice, but do it on an RC simulator that has the exact same model as in real life.




Only the Aerofly Pro Deluxe gives you most of that with helis, planes and sail planes. You can also download flying sites and other aircraft or helis for free.




It is too expensive, as you know, to keep breaking the real thing.

So try these:

1.
Have someone hover that knows how to trim it out, don’t let him fly it though, just hover!
(It is hard for beginners to know what is wrong, the helicopter, or him!)

2.
Never ever watch the tail rotor!
Why? Well you have to watch the nose, just like an airplane, 'cause the controls are crossed, as explained below.

Most novices think right rudder makes the tail boom and rotor go to the right. Nope, it goes to the left and the NOSE goes to the right. So watch the nose.




Again, Right Rudder is right nose, like doing a right stall turn with a plane.

3.
DO not attempt nose in, (no matter what your friends egg you on to do) because all controls are backwards, and it is very difficult. That will come naturally later on. Don't worry about it.

4.
Never fly away until you can hover, because you will never get it back without being able to hover and land! That is always expensive.




Once in the air, Helicopters are fairly easy to fly..as long as you can see them.

Just like an airplane, elevator (Fore and Aft Cyclic) will make the helicopter fly up and down. (But backwards and forwards in hover)




Aileron (left and right Cyclic) will make it roll just like and airplane, and it will SLIDE left and right when hovering.

Think of your helicopter Hovering like SLIDING. IT slides in the direction you move the right stick as you look down on it.

Also, you will never need to use the tail rotor much in forward flight, as it just follows behind. If you need to make sharper turns, use the tail rotor stick.

* Always try to keep the tail rotor in (towards you) when hovering!

When you come in to land, you have to pretend you are using rudder (like on airplanes) as it will steer the heli in just like it does on the planes.

But at the transition to hover, you really have to keep the NOSE still as you can and then the tail rotor gets a real workout.

5.
Always fly at eye level, because lower flights are more difficult in ground effect.

6.
And don't let people watch you when your learning.
They cause more crashes, because they always egg you on or you feel pressured to fly for them.

7.
Never chop the throttle stick. It must go down gently or the blades will hit the tail boom, when the skids slam down on the ground. That’s called a boom strike and is usually expensive on a shaft or belt driven tail rotor heli.
Remember: (No chop stick, no Bang Boom)!

8.
Never forget what your last move was and never forget it.
ExRemember what you did last, when flying, so when you get lost, go through the motions to come back.)


Oh, and…
9.
Memorize this and you will become a good pilot.

Remember:
“If you continue to do what you have always done, you will always get what you have always gotten�.

Good luck,
Dave

roychye

Boom strike is mainly due to the out-of-track blades that can hit the boom. Never cut off the throttle when the heli is out of control. try our best to land it as good as we can. This may reduce the possibility of getting boom strike.

chopperdown

I cant believe that at all. The blades are miles off the boom, even allowing for flex they are still miles off. The only way i can think of is if you don't have enough head speed to keep the blades out (centrifugal force) and the pinch in the grip is too loose, the blade will sweep aft and hit the boom.

roychye

LoL what you said is exactly what i think, i called the unoriented blades "out of track", that is exactly what you mentioned in the last post, maybe it's not that precise description (sorry english is not my native speaking language). That's why i said we cant chop the throttle off as the blades wont keep in their place without power (they will sweep and thus, hit the boom). Apparently it's not possible for the blades to hit the boom when they are on their track.

regards
roy

chopperdown

Lol. when someone describes blade track or out of track or whatever, it means the tips of the blades are not following each others path. One might be high or low (which is obvious) which will result in vibrations. On full scale helis it is felt as a vertical vibration and if blades are out of balance then it is felt as a lateral vibration. If the blades span is moved fwd or aft due to aerodynamic forces then it is known as lead or lag. To be honest i doubt that these blades would lead or lag as they do on "some" full scale rotor systems.

roychye

I do believe it happens in rc world, but i think they are just too small that we can neglect the effects.

rabfan

It wasn't a boom strike, not sure why you thought that. I havn't had one of those since the first heli and that was because I wasn't fast enough on the throttle after the blades hit the ground. It did a little dance.
Actualy I just flew it out of my 14'X14' training area and clipped the hot tub cover. Sadly the plastic ball links on the fly bar let go and thus there is no pitch control.
I am discovering however that once in the air, the machine does a 90 degree left turn and it takes huge right pedal input to get it straight again which usually results in a right drift and bank causing a descent. I'm still messing with limit and delay knobs on the RX hoping to get this tail issue resolved.
Part of the problem is also that I'm trying to learn my hover at 8" above ground. Well within ground effect. Partly because I'm not sure my machine is set up properly but also because I figure if I can learn to hover at 8" then I can hover at any altitude.
Thanks for all the tips guys! I sure appreciate it.
I think a lot of aerodynamic stuff is different in the RC world vs full scale. For one head speed on an RC is waaayyyy faster. Like 1000 rpm vs 450rpm on a Hughes 500 and that's fast. I think a 206 has a head speed in the 350 range. Thus Retreating blade tip stall is not a concern as mentioned previously. ANyway, I'm off topic.......
Hopefully my parts will be there when I get home.

roychye

if you are really serious in this hobby, you might have to consider a cnc metal head upgrade. It will decrease the learning progress dramatically as it provides better stability and strength, no more wasting on time for the broken parts.
this is the most popular upgrade for 22E, but needs some work to install it on 22E.
http://xmseller.com/3dx300bladetxv2/index.html

In my topic, i think you read the thread recommending another head should be a good choice as well.

rabfan

Sure did Roy,
I bought a wreck that has the metal head upgrade shown in your post.

roychye

you are so lucky to get that wreck! hope you can get much better control after upgrading your heli.
Since i am still a student, pocket money from my parents is not enough for me to really enjoy this hobby... [] , CNC head upgrade is too heavy on my wallet, so i won't get my 22E with this upgrade unless there is a bargain on ebay.
Go to my post and go for the latest link i've posted, contact the guy and he will instruct you how to install the Alu head or other upgrades. He is very helpful and never hesitate to answer your question. From his posted videos you will see his 22E flies like a dream!

All the best.

Heliwreck

well, Im back, finally I got a hover on my eagle 50(same than w22E) that last for about 6 seconds 5'10 height, it was great! but...you know how this is, another thing will come up after you make some progress, I still cannot figure out the PLT/PIT thing, I think I am getting closer to the right angle for the blades. But overall, there are 3 things that are my major concern:

1) When flying (or trying to fly better say) sometimes the gyro -I assume is the one to blame- kicks up like speeding up, without me touching anything...makes me thing that the gyro might be deffective, I've tried to adjust the delay/limit things, not sure if what I did messed it up worse. If I need to buy a new Gyro what is the best to get? any thoughts?

2) This might sound really weird but it happened...the connecting shaft got fatter!!! I am serious! it is not bent or anything, I had to adjust a screw that came off and had to take the whole thing appart, and it is really difficult to get the connecting shaft back into the tiny hole now. I do not think this is right, I would assume that it would be tight but not that much and I do not want to use a hammer -for obvious reasons- to get the connecting shaft back into place while trying it to fit in every single little hole. suggestions?

3) For what I read in this forum, the motors burn out very easy, that has not been my problem and I am grateful, but...one of the servos gave up, it wont go down, it is one on the back-left side -if looking the helicopter tail-in. Can i repair it -although Im going to try to anyways- and if I cannot repair it, which are the best servos to replace the one I have?

Thank you very much, Im not sure at this point if I want to keep investing on this thing or to get a more expensive helicopter that might be if not easier to fly, higher quality. But at this point in time, this has become a challenge, the heli vs my brain. This is PERSONAL! jaja...

Heliwreck

[:-] well, I fixed the servo, I think will work for sometime at least to give me chance to practice more, and somehow I managed to put the connecting shaft back in place and balanced blades and all that stuff, It worked great, I was checking on the gyro's gain and I hit some plants with the blades, nothing serious but enough to find the wobble back in my heli[:@] and [:@] and more [:@]!!! so, I went back to the working bench and try to get rid of the shakes, I've not been able to do it yet...is the main blades the problem, there is nothing bent....that is good, but how I balance the blades? I really tried everything I knew to do...i know there is something I am missing but do not know what...

Heliwreck

[:@]oh my! this job never ends! well, I tracked down the vibration problems and worked hard to get everything well balanced, everything looked just fine and I was trying to fly again...well...gues what! A POLE FLEW IN FRONT OF MY HELI!!!! now use your imagination...main blades broke into pieces??? nooo!!, tail boom? either!!! but both main blade holders broken as well as the flybar connector and the flybar blade bent...oh well, I will need to stop for now, I am about to move into my new appartment and cannot waste money on my heli at the moment sigh!

Well, you have a great day...

Heliwreck...I love my nick! [&:]

roychye

lol, the reason i bought 22E was because of its fair price in ccpm range, but i've never expect that it could spend me that much money on it. If anyone asks me now whether 22E is worth to buy or not, i will say it's a good heli but not for beginner! it's not solid enough to withstand any kind of crash.

roy

roychye

Hi long time didn't chat with you guys, here is the link of insane chopper flying! it has unbelievable Maneuverability. the blades are not more than 1 meter away from the ground level when it banks! I think you pilots will like it for sure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmpaUz6sFHA

enjoy.



roy

rabfan

Hey guys,
I'm back from work for another six days. I came home to find all the stuff I ordered was in. Woohoo! That wreck had a brushless motor and the CNC head. The head needed a little work and a new feathering shaft but it's all fixed now. I also got my brushless tail motor in. It's a feigao and came with a little 6A ESC. Pretty cool. I also got some brass ball links to try and repair some of my stock parts. AAAAANNNNNND my Bell 204 fuselage came in. Pictures soon................
No flying yet, I've been painting a car.

roychye

welcome home dude!
i found a "so-called" largest model flights shop in South Australia, yeah it was pretty cool to have all the expensive helis being hanged all around the shop. When i asked the boss about walkera, he said :" dump it into bin"...................... he just kept introducing Thunder Tiger Raptor to me and it's good for beginner, but i don't believe so... i think collective pitch heli is not suitable for a newbie.

Well, have you watched the youtube's link i posted? isn't it too dangerous to do so and does international flying regulations allow anyone to do this sort of flying?


roy

rabfan

It says the video was removed! Didn't see it

roychye

Here is another link of the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRt5mvk-2iw

rabfan

Ha ha funny. Believe it or not we had a copy of that video in flight school. Probably not the best thing to be showing to young impressionable pilots. There was another video of a couple of German military 105's doing some pretty crazy low level aerobatics. Apparently one of the pilot perished in a crash a year later at an airshow.
Most flight manual specifically state that arobatic maneuvers are prohibited. THe military may have different standards. As for the 105, I do not have an endorsement for that aircraft so I don't know what the standards for flight are. It has a rigid rotor system which allows it to preform those moves.
There was also a video of a Bell 407 doing loops and rolls at an airshow. Bell immediately pulled the Airworthiness Certificate on the aircraft pending inspection of multiple components. The aircraft has since been permanently grounded.