CraigG

My Feedback: (40)

Here's another question; can you use JR servos with Futaba? I think they will plug in without modification.

Craig

f106jax

My Feedback: (16)

Craig,

Yes, the JR servos are plug and play with Futaba. I switched my KingCat to FASST earlier this year and the only change was TX programming.

Are you going to be making it to LBJR this year? The Amish have been looking for your return.

afterburner

My Feedback: (18)

Oh MY, what have you done?[:-].

Marty

CraigG

My Feedback: (40)

Mike,

We may have to take out a loan for the gas but several Georgia Jets guys are planning to attend. We can talk about my apperance fee later.

Craig

PS: Whatever the Amish say I did, I wasn't there and they can't prove it.

Edbaker

My Feedback: (44)

It sounds like you have already made a decision? One thing you may want to think about before you buy is SERVICE!!! After dealing with JR for years and Futaba for only the last two there is no doubt that JR’s service is far better than Futaba’s. There's something to be said for good service. I've sent in handfuls of servos to JR that were plain worn out after hundreds of flights and had them replaced for nothing, On the other hand, Futaba will charge you for shipping even if the part is covered under warranty. I recently lost a 3.0M comp ARF yak due to a FAAST receiver shut down and I basically told by the service people when I call "Sorry, were not reasonable" and if the same problem happing again they are only responsible for the receiver. There obviously could find no problem and told me to put it in a "semi indispensible air plane. Well I hate to tell you that Simi-indispensable air plane can still kill someone if it shuts down and flies into a crowd, so needless to say the receiver will go straight in the trash when I get it back. I currently am only flying my old G-3 stuff and am getting tired of Futaba dragging their feet with this heat issue. I will not argue that Futaba hands down has the best programming features but I'm very seriously thinking about going back to JR who has what I believe to be the most reliable 2.4 system going. Another thing you may want to look at is the fact that JR has many more options when it comes to receivers. They have a vast selection of them as opposed the Futaba. Good luck with your new radio.

B777

But when it comes to the radio itself, Futaba 14MZ FASST is far superior than the JR 12X 2.4GHz both in programming and installation. 14MZ FASST is the right choice. Use dual battery system though, I use dual 6V NiCds or 6V regulated LiPos. I just got the new PowerBox Royal and will try using dual R6014FS Rx. I saw this installation in many jets at Top Gun and it looks very impressive.

Cheers,
B777

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

Hi Craig,

1.) With a full 14MZ Tx and 14 channel RX (either G3 or FASST) , I_think_you could get more channels that you could control. The 14MZ has 2 more sliders and I think it has a couple of eyebrow switches over the gimbals, so it has a lot of controls, so in the real world it should not be an issue.

If you are not familiar with the Futaba programming, it is very powerful. I can assign any function to any position of any switch, stick, slider, knob, trim lever, in any combination. For instance, lets say I want to use the MPDX-1 for the nose gear steering, I just couple it to the rudder stick. For the flaps, I can run each flap from a port on the MPDX-1 and control them with a switch. No problem. Very powerful. The proportional channels of the MPDX-1 have end point adjustment, failsafe and reversing, but no trims.

2.)I have used JR servos with Futaba receivers for years. You have to be careful with high battery voltages, and this issue has gotten more serious with the new FASST receivers. I have not run JR servos with a FASST but when I do I have special equipment to deal with it. The alternative would be to start using futaba servos, but for me that is a last resort. I know nothing about them, I don't own very many, have no gearsets or servo arms for them, so I would rather avoid them if possible. Just a preference.

3.) I do not know anyone personally with this FASST RX heat issue, but I have read about it and I think it is real. I am somewhat surprised that there has been nothing from Futaba on it. Looking at the specs, they might claim that when operating within the published specs you are fine, but the published specs and the publics perception can be very different. If no one ever had a problem with RX heat before, they are not going to like it suddenly happening now. For me, I plan to cut some holes in the FASST RX case and maybe use a 5v fan. With a convection cooled item, airflow is key and the Futaba RX does not really have any vent holes in it. I would have thought by now Futaba would have at the very least come out with upgraded RX plastic case that should have helped a lot but for whatever reason they have not.

Edbaker

My Feedback: (44)

I guess if you don't mind drilling cooling holesin your receiver and installing air conditioning in you air plane I'd go with the FASST system too. How about K.I.S.S. I like all the bells and whistles on my 14 too, but keeping my plane in the air is more important. Just because we haven't heard anything from Futaba doesn’t mean there are no problems.

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

I would agree that just because there hasn't been anything from Futaba, that doesn't mean there is a not problem. I would also agree that just because I don't know of anybody personally that has had a problem with FASST doesn't mean there aren't any.

On the other hand, I don't personally know of anybody who has had a problem with FASST, but I do know several who have had a problem with Spektrum resulting in damage to airplanes. I have also read quite a few posts on RCU from guys who have had problems with Spektrum, and counting you, I know of only two (I think) that I've read about having problems with FASST. You pays your money and you takes your chances...

Bob

CraigG

My Feedback: (40)

Matt,

Thanks for the response. Very informative. It seems an all JR 72mhz guy wishing to change to 2.4 could just as easily go with the 14MZ as the 12X. I have to say, I am very impressed with the capabilities of the 14MZ.

Are there any issues with "brown out" with the 14MZ? I'm surprised to see the "stock" rx battery is only a 4.8v pack. Likewise, any issues running 12 or more high draw digital servos directly through the rx and/or MDPX?

Thanks again,

Craig

DougV

You are right! Keeping my airplanes in the air and safety is more important to me then what brand is better (Futaba or JR/Spektrum). That's the reason why I changed to Futaba. The issues I had before were solved. Futaba gives you a better chance of keeping your hard earned money in the air.

Regards,
Doug.

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

Craig,

Paul has been leading a very informative thread on FASST over here: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6188151/tm.htm

It includes some valuable info. on the brown out issue, the over heating issue, and the low signal voltage issue. As far as brown out, the FASST receivers operate correctly at a much lower voltage that the Spektrum ones. I can verify that fact as last night I was showing Louie his new F-15 with FASST and a brand new RX battery (that I had not charged) in it. The 8711's on the stabs, the Futaba 9202's on the ailerons and flaps, all stopped working because of the low RX battery voltage, but the RX kept showing a green link light and the ECU indicated normal RX operation...

On the over heating issue, Paul's testing indicates that its only a problem if you let the RX get *really* hot. Any normal installation in a jet should be fine - just don't let the RX set outside uncovered under a big canopy under the sun...

There may be an issue with the low signal voltage from some of the FASST RX's and non-Futaba servos. I use Futaba servos when I want to go analog, but for digitals, JR has the best price/performance. I use the Smartfly PowerExpander to buffer the signal voltages back up to 5V and to isolate the RX power from the servo power. They're relatively inexpensive (less than the increase in price to use Futaba digital servos) and work well...

I talked with Dave Shulman and Johnny Hernandez at Florida Jets about their experiences with FASST, and they are both sold. My experiences with FASST in jets and in UAVs is also completely positive, FWIW.

Bob

f106jax

My Feedback: (16)

Craig,

I did not add anything to the KC when I switched to FASST. Ten JR servos are used, a mixture of 8611A, 8411, 2721, 351, without any amplifiers. Also using a Tam's smoke system and Electrodynamics lights plugged directly into the rx without amplifiers. I am using a Futaba 6014 rx which is mounted with 2 narrow strips of plastic hook/loop material on each end. This leaves a tunnel apx. 1/8" high under the rx. So far I've flown in temps over 90F with high humidity and have not experienced the rx heat issue reported by others.

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

Hi Craig,

First, guys like Bob (rhklenke) have 1000% more experience with FASST than I do. Shulman, and Johnnie H as well.

Having said that, from a design standpoint, I see no reason that a FASST rx cannot supply the same amount of servo drive current that a JR rx can. The issue we were discussing earlier had to do with signal voltage levels. That signal voltage, you have to watch closely, especially with a higher voltage battery.

Regarding so called "brown out", the (somewhat) anecdotal evidence is that the FASST recovers from the brown out very, very fast, and only suffers said "brown out" at a very low voltage (perhaps due to the lower core voltage their CPU is running but that is just a guess).

Personally, I do believe the FASST architecture (full FHSS) is superior for our RC applications, but I also think 900 MHz would be better. This issue has become very political, and I like to (try to) have fun in the hobby and not try to debate my friends about their radio choices.

Spektrum (and by extension JR) have a massive lead in the 2.4GHz RC market, IMHO more than we can even imagine. Futaba is a business juggernaut no question, and they might have marginally better FHSS technology, but there is no escaping the fact that maybe 999 of 1000 RC flights made on 2.4 GHz have been under the control of Spektrum radios running Cypress Semi radios chips. There is a lot to be said for that.

Regards,

CraigG

My Feedback: (40)

Bob, Mike and Matt,

Thanks for the good info. I respect all of your opinions and experience.

I had always sort of assumed I would go with the JR 2.4 when it became available and had not kept up with the FASST discussion. It's tough to go back now and wade through 42 pages and over 1000 posts. Nevertheless, I think it's worthwhile to consider both systems now that people are starting to gain some real world experience. Thanks for shedding some light for me.

Craig

Flyfalcons

Matt, I believe the reason you see more Spektrum radios than FASST in use right now is because a) they had a head start on the market, luring new owners who don't need a very capable radio and didn't want to wait for Futaba and b) most of their radios are sold to the walmart RC crowd where six channels, dual rates, and a cheap sticker price are the most important items. I was at an IMAC contest last weekend with a large turnout and did not notice much of a difference in the number of FASST and Spektrum/JR users. Only three or four pilots were still using 72mhz. Of course this hobby is very much "follow the local leader" so some clubs may be seeing disproportionally higher numbers of one system or another.