stevekott

I think it would be a challence through the fod screen. It probably is an optical IR Emitter/Receiver and it is looking for a pulsating reflection or direct interference of ambient light to pick up the RPM pulse. You would have to stick the reflective tape or reflective paint on the hub or compressor blades. It probably wouldn't work. However .. the internal turbine tach works much the same way.

It has an IR emitter and Receiver setup that shoots the beam through the crosswise hole on the compressor hub nut. I would bet that if you hacked that sensor and took the signal off the IR receiver in the turbine and fed it into the Futaba RPM sensor in lieu of the onboard sensor it would work. It would probably read 2 times the RPM because it "sees" through the hole in the compressor nut twice on each revolution but that can easily be changed on the TX by changing the gear ratio to 2.

I don't know but I bet there is a good chance that that RPM signal coming out of the turbine is on one of the wires coming out of the telco connector going to the turbine.


Carsten, how far away are you from having an available board?<br type="_moz" />

Carsten Groen

Steve,
the prototypes for the physical hardware is being done as we speak, software for the SBUS2 protocol is finished, as well as the protocol for the JetCat ECU.
The last work (once the prototypes are in) is to integrate the two things (easy job).
Then there is the job of getting someone to produce it. I do this, as I also did the Info display, for pure fun, the production etc is to be handled by someone else. Hopefully one will pickup on this.
But realistically, 2 to 3 months (but I have a twin engine jet on it's way, so I have deep personal interest in this )
The integration with the airspeed sensor/Autothrottle will be immediatly following, this is just a software task (the IAS indicator/Autothrottle has already been running for almost a year one my Boomerang Sprint/P100RX with great success)

josecilurzo

good point Steve,

the instructions of use of RPM SENSOR FUTABA, said that you need program number of blades for correct reading.
Well, i 'm waiting for tu buy the sensor and make a test, with FOD SCREEN, or, i will make a hole on it.

rgds

jose

DaBear1

Is this what you are looking for?

It's a JetCat Telemetry system from Spectrum.
http://www.spektrumrc.com/Products/D...rodID=SPMA9584

Sorry if someone has already posted

afterburner

My Feedback: (18)

I posted in the Futaba support forum on where to send requests for adding features on monitoring parameters of turbines in their telemetry radios. I didn't respond to his request on specifics as I'm not sure what the concensus is on the most important feature is. I would think it's whatever gives the quickest indication of a flameout.

Marty



You just put your request here, and we'll forward the request to the folks at Futaba, where it will be considered. One thing to consider, though, is that the more specific the feature, and the more clear you make your desire, the better chance for it to be understood and be given proper consideration. So, in this case, when you ask for "turbine parameters", you need to be more clear. The Futaba people will not go through a discussion thread to find out what is being asked for.

_____________________________

Bill Baxter, Manager Hobby Services/Futaba Service/North America
3002 N. Apollo Dr. Ste. 1 Champaign, IL 61822 USA
Service Phone: 217 398-0007
Email: [email protected]

stevekott

Thanks Bill,

I think the quickest indication of a flameout is an RPM below 30,000. Then the other thing I would like to monitor is Consumed fuel from the ECU. That would be an indicator of time to land. All the other parameters are in the "Nice to know" category but to be specific those are the two that would be most important to me.

Then the other thing to monitor is indicated air speed via pitot tube. I don't see an offering from futaba for that. It would be nice to have the 18mz call out approach speed on final. GPS speed can be erratic and doesn't take into account headwind/tailwind.

I would look forward to having Futaba cater to the turbine market. In my neck of the woods the only people I know with 18mz's are turbine guys. I hate to see Spektrum havingsomething Futaba doesn't <br type="_moz" />

BlueBus320

My Feedback: (57)

+1, if you can monitor fuel consumption, then in theory you should be able to set different stall speeds that decrease as fuel burns. Otherwise you'd have to set all stall speeds with full fuel. Will work really well with landing auto thrust

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

There is also a SBS-01V coming out, a voltage sensor and you can use more than one at the same time. This could work for a spoofed flameout alarm by checking the pump voltage or the shutoff valve voltage (on a jet cat at least)

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

And with this widget it looks like you could do the twin turbine alarms and maybe hack the voice alarms if they are PCM files. No need for the 3,000 dollar TX, this box costs less than the sales tax on that TX!

http://www.robbe.de/telemetry-box-2-...asstestr.html#

STAN-CAUSSEL

Concerning the flame-out indication, to my opinion the simplest way to detect it, is to survey the signal send from the ECU to the Fuel shut-off valve. In case of trouble, whatever could be the reason, the ECU will first closed the shut-off valve => Engine Right/Left flame out occurs => Alarm should be triggered on ground
Carsten, the friend I told sooner about twin engine trouble is an excellent jet pilot and lost 2 A10

mick15

For me all I require at present is multiple voltage sensors, I think I’m right in we only have one external voltage readout on the 18MZ. If I had at least two I could monitor the fuel pump voltages of a twin set-up with different warning vibrations to tell me if I loose one engine.

m

fifou313

Hello Stan
I'm agree with your analyse. I think for my point of view that in telemetry jet you need only one information it's the flameout indication.
Best regards.

PS: I will contact you to fly in Salon.
Best regards.

stevekott

Great Find Mr. Matt, I could see that solution working quite well. You would just need the one SBS-01V as you could use the ext voltge input on the rx for the other motor. Then as mentioned above monitor either the fuel pump voltage or the fuel solenoid voltage.
<br type="_moz" />

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

From another thread futaba said you can have more than one of these SBS voltage sensors on an 18MZ


http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_11269319/tm.htm

FeffeSvl

I have been lurking around RCU-Jets on and off since late 2011 soaking up the wide range of knowledge that all you experienced turbine guys have to share. Now that I am on the path of turbines myself with perhaps something to share with you, so I thought I should jump in here. Hope you don&acute;t mind this from a newbee!

I am already running a functional flameout warning system in my Tomahawk Futura 2,5m with Swedish Hawk 190R turbine since last year. here is a vid from the maiden flight http://youtu.be/7rX8rlCVFZc by the way.

The radio system I use is the Jeti DC-16 transmitter who support live telemetry, combined with the R18 receiver and among others a MUI30 current/voltage sensor (from the same manufacturer) before the fuel pump.

The main reason for the setup was to track fuel consumtion as a type of fuel gauge (fuel pump power draw has been tested and found proportional to flow, typically within 4% accuracy). But when I was programming it I had the idea to put an alarm trigger on the fuel pump current as well. With the turbine running, the amp draw is around 0,8-1A minimum in idle. The alarm is triggered if the amp draw drop below 0,5A.

The jeti transmitter has a very flexible system for triggers and it can output voice alarms (including any custom sound of your recording) via loudspeaker or earbud (my prefered option). So the instant the ecu shut off the turbine I get a "WARNING, FLAMEOUT!" message in my ear. I and can act immediately on this, hopefully keeping enough air speed up to make it back to the runway. Since I have the Hawk turbine I have never had a flameout(yet) but better safe than sorry!

The beauty of the setup IMHO is that it can be implemented regardless of ECU brand.

For those of you with Futaba or any other brand, there is still hope, Jeti also make a standalone telemetry receiver called Jetibox Profi, capable of independent alarms and voice/earbud output. It is delivered complete with a satellite receiver (at least for Euro customers) who can work in parallell with Futaba and transmit the data from the sensor(s) back down to the JetiBox. This box can be mounted on the transmitter for visual reference of the display, or kept in a pocket with audio warning only.<br type="_moz" />

afterburner

My Feedback: (18)

The question is what parameter is the first to be affected by a flamout? I would assume that pump voltage drops to zero after the ECU sees an RPM drop and or a temp drop? I know all this happens withing a second maybe but shouldn't we want to monitor the parameter that changes first?

Matt, the voltage sensor looks like a possible option as long as the pump voltage range can be monitored by the sensor. If you bought an 18MZ, would you really pay tax on it?

Marty

Gonzalo38

Jeti Box Profi http://www.espritmodel.com/jeti-tele...rogrammer.aspx

Wonder how working this system in parallel could affect that 2.4 signal of another radio (ex: Futaba)

I guess that you would need to add a telemetry ready Jeti receiver and a current sensor...

Gonzalo38

Iw we need to monitor Amperage consumption of the fuel pump, could we use this for Futaba http://www.robbe.de/stromsensor-150a.html

I guess that the only problem is that doesn't measure amperage below 1 AMP. Wonder if this sensor would work with the S Bus receivers to transmit.

mick15

Thanks mr matt a good find, that's just what I need. I can monitor fuel pump or fuel solenoid voltage telling me if one of a pair of engines flame out, thanks.

m

stevekott

I bought one of these contraptions. It will work in conjunction with the 18mz or as a standalone as long as you use one of the Futaba Fasstest receivers. I tested it with the R7008SB. It immediately sees the Rx pack voltage and the external voltage input.

I think I figured out a way to use it as Flame-Out detector that would detect either/or motor quitting. You would feel the vibration and hear the alarm if either motor quit. But you would need to look at the display to see which one, or just notice you plane turning toward the dead motor. I will do some testing tonight to see if my idea works.
<br type="_moz" />

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

Steve where did you buy the box from?

Have you looked at the software on it? I wonder if the voice prompt files could be changed to have an audible warning for left and right?

Gonzalo38

I bought mine from Intairco

http://www.intairco.net/products.php....4GHz-FASSTest

stevekott

I got it here. Forgot about Intairco.

<a href="http://shop.rc-electronic.com/e-vendo.php?shop=k_emcotec_e&amp;SessionId=&amp;a=ar ticle&amp;ProdNr=RF1666&amp;t=2378&amp;c=2403&amp; p=2403" target="_blank">shop.rc-electronic.com/e-vendo.php

</a>

stevekott

And here's the link to the Flameout detector I've been working on.

www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_11399981/tm.htm