Emergency safety alert: FEJ big F-18F Superhornet
#51
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RE: Emergency safety alert: FEJ big F-18F Superhornet
5 flights.. That's just pitiful. Not only will I never buy one of these, ..if ever see an FEJ again I'll get as far away from it as I can.
Nice save.
Nice save.
#53
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RE: Emergency safety alert: FEJ big F-18F Superhornet
Even if David had lost a few jets in the past, does it exclude him from making an effort to ensure our safety? Contrary, he would be better suited to lead, as he just may have the tenacity that most of us lack.
ORIGINAL: tinal
David: May I ask how many models you lost so far?</p>
David: May I ask how many models you lost so far?</p>
#54
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RE: Emergency safety alert: FEJ big F-18F Superhornet
Sorry, he is, and should take the lead!
ORIGINAL: gjhinshaw
SORRY, but YOU are NOT what we need as a "CD" or representing anyone with AMA or any other organization!
SORRY, but YOU are NOT what we need as a "CD" or representing anyone with AMA or any other organization!
ORIGINAL: David Searles
Turbine CD's TAKE NOTICE! I mentioned my ZERO Tolerance policy on these HC beasts in another thread. Hopefully, now, we can get more CD's around the country to sign on and prevent these jets from flying at our events or local club, without extensive inspection and strong consideration if you even want to allow the flights! I, for one, will make every effort to prevent these jets being flown at my field! How many bullets do we want to attempt to dodge before something ugly happens?![:'(]
Beave, I'm sure that FEJ will blame this on your modifications. But the simple fact is that when we attempt to re-engineer these aircraft, all we do is transfer the stress to the next weakest link in the airframe! Without adequate testing, that FEJ obviously has not chosen to do, there is no way to know what the end result will be. This is a perfect example!
David S
Turbine CD's TAKE NOTICE! I mentioned my ZERO Tolerance policy on these HC beasts in another thread. Hopefully, now, we can get more CD's around the country to sign on and prevent these jets from flying at our events or local club, without extensive inspection and strong consideration if you even want to allow the flights! I, for one, will make every effort to prevent these jets being flown at my field! How many bullets do we want to attempt to dodge before something ugly happens?![:'(]
Beave, I'm sure that FEJ will blame this on your modifications. But the simple fact is that when we attempt to re-engineer these aircraft, all we do is transfer the stress to the next weakest link in the airframe! Without adequate testing, that FEJ obviously has not chosen to do, there is no way to know what the end result will be. This is a perfect example!
David S
#56
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RE: Emergency safety alert: FEJ big F-18F Superhornet
ORIGINAL: tamjets
I just look the video.
Once again...pivot point also too far back one problem right there.
The next is how the mechanical linkage set up?
Here how I would think proper pivot point for the F-18 stabs
I just look the video.
Once again...pivot point also too far back one problem right there.
The next is how the mechanical linkage set up?
Here how I would think proper pivot point for the F-18 stabs
I can rebuild all my stabs with the shaft moved fwd on the MAC and solid anti-torque design... Tam you believe that will fix the problem?
#57
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RE: Emergency safety alert: FEJ big F-18F Superhornet
In the second pic in Tam's post #31, Tam marks in red where the proper pivot point location should be. I agree with him.
While I can't vouch for the full-scale Hornet, I can say that the full-scale F-14 does have the stab pivot point in that relative location. There was much more stab root chord aft of the pivot than ahead of it...very obvious when the stabs were drooped T.E. down.
Sluggo
BTW, yes indeed, the Save of the Century...but, if I had to pick someone to put on the sticks that could pull it off, Boli would be at the top of the "short list" for sure. Very, very fortunate he was at the helm.
While I can't vouch for the full-scale Hornet, I can say that the full-scale F-14 does have the stab pivot point in that relative location. There was much more stab root chord aft of the pivot than ahead of it...very obvious when the stabs were drooped T.E. down.
Sluggo
BTW, yes indeed, the Save of the Century...but, if I had to pick someone to put on the sticks that could pull it off, Boli would be at the top of the "short list" for sure. Very, very fortunate he was at the helm.
#58
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RE: Emergency safety alert: FEJ big F-18F Superhornet
For those of you that still own and trying to operate ANY of the FEJ's, and haven't made them into a lawn dart, take it upon yourselves to modifiy your own jet (poor investment of yours), by laminating everything from the engine or trailing edge of the wing back to the tail cone. This includes all bulkheads, mounts, etc. Truly won't add that much weight, and may prolong the life of your investment.
I WILL SELL YOU AT LEAST 2.3 OZ, AND IT MAY BE HEAVIER THEN 3 OZ, BUT NEED TO FIND OUT THE EXACT WEIGHT, CARBON FIBER CLOTH FOR $100 PER SQUARE YARD.....36"X36". You will have to buy the appropriate 4 to 1 laminating epoxy, but can supply that too, but need to figure out a price, if we ship it UPS. I have done this to a lot of my jets, but do NOT own nor will I ever own a FEJ.
YOU KNOW THERE IS AN ISSUE, FIX it yourself, since you currently own it, and FEJ won't help you out!! Don't fly it until then, and if you do fly it, knowing these issues, shame on you.
I WILL SELL YOU AT LEAST 2.3 OZ, AND IT MAY BE HEAVIER THEN 3 OZ, BUT NEED TO FIND OUT THE EXACT WEIGHT, CARBON FIBER CLOTH FOR $100 PER SQUARE YARD.....36"X36". You will have to buy the appropriate 4 to 1 laminating epoxy, but can supply that too, but need to figure out a price, if we ship it UPS. I have done this to a lot of my jets, but do NOT own nor will I ever own a FEJ.
YOU KNOW THERE IS AN ISSUE, FIX it yourself, since you currently own it, and FEJ won't help you out!! Don't fly it until then, and if you do fly it, knowing these issues, shame on you.
#59
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RE: Emergency safety alert: FEJ big F-18F Superhornet
Dan some Carbon Fiber cant fix a bad design with a bad pivot point. That kind of flutter will break anything. Its much more then strength involved here.
Funny part is the newer ones they are making with that direct drive crap is even worse.
Flyeagle cant keep a small 1/8 scale plane from exploding in flight let alone a 70 pound aircraft.
Funny part is the newer ones they are making with that direct drive crap is even worse.
Flyeagle cant keep a small 1/8 scale plane from exploding in flight let alone a 70 pound aircraft.
#60
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RE: Emergency safety alert: FEJ big F-18F Superhornet
Guess that is why my 1/8 F-18 can do close to 200 mph, and you have seen it fly! Also why I own CARF or BVM jets. Carbon Fiber sure couldn't hurt, and better then doing nothing at all and flying a bad design. All they are doing is reducing the resale value of their own planes.
#61
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RE: Emergency safety alert: FEJ big F-18F Superhornet
ORIGINAL: RCFlyerDan
Guess that is why my 1/8 F-18 can do close to 200 mph, and you have seen it fly! Also why I own CARF or BVM jets. Carbon Fiber sure couldn't hurt, and better then doing nothing at all and flying a bad design. All they are doing is reducing the resale value of their own planes.
Guess that is why my 1/8 F-18 can do close to 200 mph, and you have seen it fly! Also why I own CARF or BVM jets. Carbon Fiber sure couldn't hurt, and better then doing nothing at all and flying a bad design. All they are doing is reducing the resale value of their own planes.
#62
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RE: Emergency safety alert: FEJ big F-18F Superhornet
ORIGINAL: gunradd
Yep your F18 is a rocket ship! That is the difference between a correctly made stab and a poorly made fly eagle stab.
ORIGINAL: RCFlyerDan
Guess that is why my 1/8 F-18 can do close to 200 mph, and you have seen it fly! Also why I own CARF or BVM jets. Carbon Fiber sure couldn't hurt, and better then doing nothing at all and flying a bad design. All they are doing is reducing the resale value of their own planes.
Guess that is why my 1/8 F-18 can do close to 200 mph, and you have seen it fly! Also why I own CARF or BVM jets. Carbon Fiber sure couldn't hurt, and better then doing nothing at all and flying a bad design. All they are doing is reducing the resale value of their own planes.
#63
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RE: Emergency safety alert: FEJ big F-18F Superhornet
Sorry to hear about another FEJ airframe failure Boli and great save!
Interesting to hear some negative comments against grounding FEJ at events, but it sounds very logical to me. It would be a very unpleasant experience to be a CD who might have to represent the AMA as a co-defendent in a law suit filed by a plaintiff who sustained personal injury due to an in flight catasrophic model failure.
And unfortunately at this point, I think the AMA/JPO needs to step in and issue airframe certifications to foreign jet kit manufacturers on their designs, engineering, manufacturing and test, similar to the way we do with turbine waivers for pilots.
Nice to pit with you, Tom and the warbird boys at TG this year. Great job with the Turbo Prop Tucano!
Rick Boyer
Top Gun 2004-2013
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Ryan STA
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MiG-15 bis
Interesting to hear some negative comments against grounding FEJ at events, but it sounds very logical to me. It would be a very unpleasant experience to be a CD who might have to represent the AMA as a co-defendent in a law suit filed by a plaintiff who sustained personal injury due to an in flight catasrophic model failure.
And unfortunately at this point, I think the AMA/JPO needs to step in and issue airframe certifications to foreign jet kit manufacturers on their designs, engineering, manufacturing and test, similar to the way we do with turbine waivers for pilots.
Nice to pit with you, Tom and the warbird boys at TG this year. Great job with the Turbo Prop Tucano!
Rick Boyer
Top Gun 2004-2013
Pitts Special S-1S (#1)
Ryan STA
Pitts Special S-1S (#2)
MiG-15 bis
#64
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RE: Emergency safety alert: FEJ big F-18F Superhornet
Boli, I have to say what a save, this is an unbelievable save. The owner of that F-18 needs to buy you a nice dinner. That's over 6K in just turbines you saved him.
Good job Boli
Good job Boli
#67
RE: Emergency safety alert: FEJ big F-18F Superhornet
ORIGINAL: tamjets
There is a lot things that need to done right.
Let start with mechanical linkage set up to take out the sloppy play to the flying surface.
Most common flutter start from here lead to major failure.
How the aircraft was built at the factory is beyond from user doing the assembly.
That is manufacture need to do more testing before products are release.
Look at page 4.
ORIGINAL: FenderBean
I would really like to know what the people who have this jet and have flown it without problems have done, same for the f-14. They have sold these to people all over the world and I have seen youtube videos of them flying. If they did mods seeing what they did could help current owners.
I would really like to know what the people who have this jet and have flown it without problems have done, same for the f-14. They have sold these to people all over the world and I have seen youtube videos of them flying. If they did mods seeing what they did could help current owners.
Let start with mechanical linkage set up to take out the sloppy play to the flying surface.
Most common flutter start from here lead to major failure.
How the aircraft was built at the factory is beyond from user doing the assembly.
That is manufacture need to do more testing before products are release.
Look at page 4.
#68
RE: Emergency safety alert: FEJ big F-18F Superhornet
And people are still buying FEJ WHY? old Chinese proverb; Fools and their money are soon departed. These guys are laughing all the way to the bank.
#69
RE: Emergency safety alert: FEJ big F-18F Superhornet
By the way, to the COWARD who keeps texting me anonymously on my cell phone, keep it up. I will find out who you are and then I will file charges against you (remember ALL digital communications are recorded and can be traced back to the user). I know you are reading this so let this be a fair warning.
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RE: Emergency safety alert: FEJ big F-18F Superhornet
ORIGINAL: tinal
David: May I ask how many models you lost so far? </p>
David: May I ask how many models you lost so far? </p>
1. I was one of the earliest supporters of FEJ when they initially began to offer their kits. I own six of them. 2-1/7 F-18F, 1/5.5 F-16, 1/7 F-15, 1/7 F-4E, F-100F Only three of which have seen any meaningful flight time! I chose not to fly the F-16 or F-15, even though they were completely outfitted with new servos complete install etc, because I did not believe either was flight worthy. MY DECISION! I will not risk my life or others by putting an aircraft in the air, that I am not COMPLETELY comfortable with it's ability to perform the tasks designed for safely! But, that's just me.
I ABSOLUTELY loved their initial FG layup 1/7 F-18F, after I finally got the LG to work reliably. AWESOME flying jet, three years of "rigorous" (private joke) flying with NO structural problems or concerns.
2. Initially the only consistent problem with FEJ was that their LG didn't work, most of the time, and their air cylinders leaked. Not a safety issue!
3. When I first saw the initial photos of FEJ's switch to HC construction, I saw enough obvious mistakes and incorrect usage of HC material in STRUCTURAL areas, in photos on their website, to have serious concerns as to their structural integrity for the long term. SAFETY issue!
4. Those concerns have now been proven to be valid, in fact, by two different aircraft, built by two different builders, (whom I have belief in their abilities to build soundly), on two sides of the country, with essentially the same catastrophic results. Correction: Make that THREE different aircraft. I almost forgot about the HC FEJ J-10 which broke apart in flight due to obvious, video taped, wing tip flutter, last year at Jets Over KY.
5. When it comes to SAFETY, I choose to be proactive. Why wait until one of these breaks and flies into the pits, or a crowd of spectators before we adjust our thinking?! If I'm going to make a mistake,(which I most undoubtedly will) I will always choose to err on the side of safety and prevention of damage, as opposed to doing that "shoulda, coulda, woulda" dance after someone has been injured!
6. I take my responsibilities as a Turbine CD, to my fellow modelers, the AMA and the community in general, very seriously! The primary responsibility, in my mind, is safety! I will not fudge on that factor, opposing opinions be damned! But, thats just me.
Tinal, in direct response to your question. I have been flying jets for eight years. In that time I've owned over twenty five different jets. If memory serves, I have lost five in that time, for various reasons.
David S
#72
RE: Emergency safety alert: FEJ big F-18F Superhornet
ORIGINAL: mr_matt
Was this plane LTMA (AMA inspected)? If so did the inspector check the stabilator pivot location?
Was this plane LTMA (AMA inspected)? If so did the inspector check the stabilator pivot location?
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RE: Emergency safety alert: FEJ big F-18F Superhornet
ORIGINAL: bevar
...I immediately chopped the power and the nose drifted up and began a death roll to the right. I instantly got back on the power, went to high rates on everything, dropped the gear and was able to get control of the jet back...albeit in a right hand level turn of about 25 degrees using full up left stab and full left aileron and rudder.
After a few laps I felt comfortable enough to attempt a landing and began a gentle descending spiral. At the last moment I kicked out the rudder, got the wings level and made a near normal landing...albeit in the grass....
Beave
...I immediately chopped the power and the nose drifted up and began a death roll to the right. I instantly got back on the power, went to high rates on everything, dropped the gear and was able to get control of the jet back...albeit in a right hand level turn of about 25 degrees using full up left stab and full left aileron and rudder.
After a few laps I felt comfortable enough to attempt a landing and began a gentle descending spiral. At the last moment I kicked out the rudder, got the wings level and made a near normal landing...albeit in the grass....
Beave
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#74
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RE: Emergency safety alert: FEJ big F-18F Superhornet
ORIGINAL: FalconWings
The fact that the F-18 made it back to the ground is a true testament of the quality of the model.
Kudos FEJ!
(sorry had to say that! )
The fact that the F-18 made it back to the ground is a true testament of the quality of the model.
Kudos FEJ!
(sorry had to say that! )
Wow!! I think this was supposed to be a joke statement, but Wow! Surprised no one else has chimed in on this post? As a retired ATP B-727 Capt, and Capt of other Corp. jets, since Boli said he was going to SFO, I am taking it that he is a Professional Jet Capt/Pilot and understands how to work with what is left in an emergency situation. Acting on training, muscle memory, and instincts, and understands Jet aerodynamics.....took immediate action, and since he wasn't in a sim, would have lived to fly another day. I would ride in back with him anytime.
#75
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RE: Emergency safety alert: FEJ big F-18F Superhornet
ORIGINAL: mr_matt
Was this plane LTMA (AMA inspected)? If so did the inspector check the stabilator pivot location?
Was this plane LTMA (AMA inspected)? If so did the inspector check the stabilator pivot location?
It is not credible to believe that most of these big FEJplanes are coming out at under 55 pounds.
People ignore the rules, nobody wants to be inspected.