jimcork1

My Feedback: (4)

I bought the 56 canopy glue and now waiting for glue to dry.. Today I have been looking for a new flying field, our club lost the existing field. A little like looking for a needle in the hay stack.

The cowl is scheduled for tomorrow,, (if I don't take the boat offshore). The plane looks really good, I do have a digitial camera, and the wife did give in to buy the nikon coolpix. So I will shoot a pic of the bird complete as soon as I complete the cowl.

Now for the throttle it was a non issue due to having the rud and elev servos in the tail as a big bird. What was a problem was all the danged wires from all the servos in close priximity to the retract servo, That puppy chattered like crazy when the wheels were down until I rerouted the wires away from the servo. The retract servo is a Hobbico servo retract, and I have neve had a issue with the futuba retract servo, but It was never in such a tight place. The servo is ok after moving all the wires. The 8 oz GPlanes tank fit with no problem, I had to put the battery under the tank for balance with the 2 servos in the tail. The plane weighs 5# 8 oz exactly on target, minus the cowl and fuel. Otherwise it is ready to fly.

Is there any suggestions on control throws compared to the manual? I used elev as per manual but ail at maximum I can get. I like ail sensitive and have dual rates to start on low.

Ya'll have a nice day.. Jim (hoping to find a new field._[:-]

skypupmut

I personnaly like a ship with quick response
but always set up like recomended to start with then adjust the mouvements to my liking
have been told they are rather quick as sugested by manual
good luck
fields are sure not easy to find
and help to set up not always there
but lot`s of folks to sugest what should have been doneLOL

payback1

Hi guys,

I'll run those camera idea's past the wife. She's a teacher and I'm a certified airplane mechanic. we don't have a lot of money
but we do o.k. I suppose the film would pay for itself pretty quick.

sorry about losing your field. you should do what me and my buddies did. get to know a local Agricultural applicator outfit. IE spray
plane pilot. they are pretty down to earth and friendly. They usually have their own FAA free strip right out of town.

get this. we fly from a fabulous 1200 foot long 25 foot wide paved strip with zero obstocels (spelling). Even with a dead stick you
just let the sucker coast and coast until you want to land. it's been pretty nice. There are a couple of obvious rules. like stay the
heck out of the way when they are gunnin and runnin. And it's a good idea to check in and Always pick up any trash. No trace flying.

Thanks for telling me about the throttle servo and the retract servo glitches. I will be finishing soon i hope. Today was a 10+ day here.

Keep em flying. Payback

jimcork1

My Feedback: (4)

Getting close to test fly. The plane is complete and flight ready minus cowl. I glassed the cowl today, but temps of 50 made the glass slow to cure the epoxy. Photo attached and waiting for a good day to take it out.

The engine is broken in on another plane so I don't expect a problem with the engine.

skypupmut

real nice bird
good job[sm=thumbup.gif]

jimcork1

My Feedback: (4)

Finally compleleted the bird today. Family dropped in and stopped the work and flying on the best day we had this year. So,, didn't get out. I'll take pics prior to the game tomorrow and try to post the FINAL, but hopefully not the last pics. Test fly next week given good weather.

jimcork1

My Feedback: (4)

Ok guys here is the , the [>:], and the [:'(].

The plane is complete and ready. The cowl fit nice with the remote glow driver.

The La. .46 fit in the cowl and does not over heat.

The retracts and flaps work.

Range check is good.

The transmitter w/ new batteries now has 400% in operating time.

But..................

The engine just won't run reliable inverted cowled. The engine will turn 12,800 w/ 10x6 prop and 15 % cool power fuel. This combo worked well for upright in the very same engine. I tried 3 different heat range / type of plugs and 2 props. 10x6 and 11x6. To improve the idle and transition. This is an airbleed carb. At idle it is rich and at throttle up it dies instantly. If allowed to idle it will load up and die. I have tried with the airbleed to lean it out, but no success. I have experimented with 2 different types of fuel with no luck also. At full throttle and mid range operation it is ok, it just won't idle down and then accelerate w/out dying. (the fuel tank is positioned for c/l of tank to c/l of carb.

I have a bad back and my specialist told me,,,,,,,no bending so I can't have an engine that won't run reliable.

I am going back to my base engine that I now buy for new and replacement engines. I will buy the Saito .56 AAC and install it horizontal. This will mean a complete rework to the throttle servo and at least a 3 week delay in first flight. I know you will ask why not put the La horizontal. I don't have the patience to rework the fuse for the La and find out it still won't perform. I have had very high success w/Saito ,, they just work out of the box, and this is the type of reliability that I need.

What engines were used on the current flying planes, inverted,, and how are they on reliability. Jim

Davesplace80

I have herd that the LAs don't run well inverted. I just got me .46AX for mine. I will spend some time breaking it in on my Ultra stick first though. I am far behind you gues building my Nobler.

jimcork1

My Feedback: (4)

I don't know if it is the La or the weather,, doesn't matter, I don't have the patience for engines that don't run.

Today I ordered a new Saito .56 4 stroke for it. I have never had a bad Saito,, currently I have 9 flying. Guess I'll have to make it 10.

My biggest consideration was weight. The La weight about 11 oz. The 4 strokes were 15, 19,, and 19.9 oz. The 56 gave the most power to weight given prop size and ground clearance. I was afraid that larger than a 12" prop would dig the grass when not mowed.

We are have lost our field and will be out of a site soon. So grass mowing is also up in the air.

Engine won't be in until Fri and I will need a couple of days to make the mods. UGH,, already cut the cowl. Jim

jimcork1

My Feedback: (4)

Ok,, new Saito .56 arrived today and will fit mounts and cowl with work. I will have to move the throttle servo to the other side of the fuse and change throttle linkage. THis should be a serious upgrade over the La. 46 that would not idle and transition inverted.

New solution to La. 46 for flying inverted. Replace with saito

Horizon delivered to my door in 48 hrs. from time of order.. Great service. Jim

jimcork1

My Feedback: (4)

Ok,, first flightd results. [&o]

The bird has a tendency to stumble over it's toes during taxi,, wants to nose over. I used the new saito .56 which was excellent for reliability and power. It worked great. I also used a 12x6 apc prop which never made a first flight. The prop tips were mowing grass too much so I switched to a MAS 11x8. This prop turned 10,200 on the 200 rpm rich setting. So I guess still too small but I did make the 3 flights on it. The CG was a bit nose heavy at 3" from the leading edge. This was due to building for the La .46 and switching to the Saito .56. I think this made it more sensitive to nose over. However First flight was full up elevator for takeoff roll and the bird lifted nicely. The flight was smooth but I was suprised to both the elevator and aileron sensitivity. The elevator was not sensitive at all on the reco. settings. But the ailerons were very nice around neutral but at extremes rolled the bird very fast. So the ailerons are great, but more elevator at least for my flying.

The retracts worked great. One small problem,, I didn't tighten the screw on the flat well enough so one of them turned in. Tightened screw all was well for the rest of the day.

Flaps were another story. Reco setting is 1/2" max. Of course I used 1 1/2"..

I found something interesting here. The first 1" of flaps caused the plane to balloon up. But the last 1/2" caused it to fall like a stone. I think excessive flaps just become a speed brake and lose lift resulting in the rapid desent. I have limited the flaps to 3/4" and mixed down elevator for the next flights.

I have also moved the battery pack from under the tank to the location shown on the plans to make the c/g 4" from leading edge. This adds a lot of weight to the tail and should help with nose over.

So,, more flights possibly today given weather. Don't know if this bird is one I can recommend yet. I have had to do a lot to make it fly the way I think it should. Perhaps just too old a design. I will find out on the next trip out.

But the good news.

It does fly well with the gear up.
The flaps do work.
The retracts worked flawless.
The saito was excellent.

Now to see If It will do as I would like it. Probably will have to buy a new cowl after chopping this one for the 2 stroke and then using a 4 stroke.

Flying weight is 5# 12 oz. About 4 oz over the target weight, but the saito add on added 4 oz over the La. .46. But worth it. Jim

jimcork1

My Feedback: (4)

Latest update. I set the CG at 4" from leading edge. Wow what a different plane. Flies great. Landings 3 point. Inverted almost no trim change.

The saito reliability and the aft CG made the plane a nice flier. Landings with 1/2" of flaps and flap to elev mixing worked great.
I can fly high overhead at full throttle go to idle, drop the gear and extend the flaps with no change in pitch. If done correctly a nice 3 point landing. Tip over on the prop is reduced with 11 " prop and 4 " CG setting. It flies so nice I installed the cowl. The remote glo driver is great for starting. Looks like this might be a nice flying bird.

There is some adverse yaw when doing maneuvers due to the short couple rudder to wing ratio and this is noticable so you won't win a pattern event with this bird. But looks like a great 30's flier with gear up on fly by's. Many positive comments today. Total of 6 flights. If anyone needs pics or info just let me know.. Jim

skypupmut

Great to hear this
can`t wait to fly mine now
[sm=thumbup.gif]

grayle

Wow, great to hear all you talk about this plane. I bought the great planes G2 simulator and bought the fourth add on disk which included the Nobler. I liked how it looked and flew so I went to the local hobby shop to see if they had one, they did for only $70! I bought it around the second week in January '05 and currently have the stab, rudder, fin and elevator done, and just starting to install the radio equipment into the fuselage. I plan on using an old OS Max .40 SF and will be building it with retracts and flaps. I'll try to keep updating. Keep writing if you can!! Grayle

grayle

Jim, are you landing the plane on grass? I finally read through the all the replies and it looks like the retracts aren't the way to go if landing on grass. I have all the parts to make it retractable, but still haven't built the wings yet? I will be landing on grass. The club I belong to is called Grassfield Radio Control Club.

jimcork1

My Feedback: (4)

Yes I am landing on grass, and the grass is abnormally short due to the winter. I don't think the small wheels on the retracts would allow it to take off if the grass was normal for summer. Paved will be a non issue. The retracts have worked well with no problem.

I don't think I would put retracts on it to fly off of grass. It does look really cool to fly with the wheels up. The combat landing with high overfield power cut, drop gear and flaps for a spot landing also work nice.

I would recommend you set the CG at 4" from leading edge of wing. This makes the plane much more stable on the wheels and flies better. Jim

grayle

Thanks for the tip. The 4" would only apply if I installed the retracts. I really would like to build it with retracts. But if I shouldn't, then I won't. I still have yet to learn how to fly, I've only learned on the simulator. My trainer is an Eagle 2. I plan on learning how to fly this spring. I probably won't fly the Nobler for a while, we'll see.

jimcork1

My Feedback: (4)

I would recommend the 4" even without retracts. But if you haven't been flying and are proficient.. You might hold off on the Nobler. It is a sensitive bird in roll which will get you into trouble very quickly if you are a little slow to react.

Fly the Nobler only if you have flown planes like the Sig 4 Star .40 first. Jim

jimcork1

My Feedback: (4)

For those of you still following. I finally have the nobler flying well. Lets discuss the issues.

Problem: Short retract landing gear makes nose over in grass a problem.

Solution. Fly with C/G at 4" from leading edge of the wing. I know on the plans this is the most aft point, but the plane handles well and after 6 flights today only one tip over.

Problem: Retracts are weak due to cutting out for retract coil on wire.

Solution: I added a 1/4x1/4" spruce overlay on the rib that was cut out and currently the gear is strong enough for touch and go's

Problem: Engine reliability inverted

Solution: I bought a new saito .56 which is almost perfect for weight / balance with battery behind the trailing edge of the wing.

Problem: Linkage binds inside the fuse due to the 5 servos.

Solution: Build it as a big bird. Put 2 servos in the tail as a big bird and this cleans up the linkage

Problem: Weight

Solution: I put weight reducing holes in both sides of the fuse and the fuse top that the formers are glued on.
This took out enough weight to compensate for the 2 servos in the tail.

Problem: What to do with the engine offset in the fuse.

Solution: I put the engine straight and use rudder on take off.

Problem: Flaps cause plane to need excessive up elevator.

Solution: Mix flaps to elevator for up elevator.

The plane came in at 5 1/2# and flies well. There is yaw due to short coupled rudder and small size. This is not a major problem.

Landing with 3/4" of flaps and retracts down can be very slow and a 3 point nice landing.

Summary. I would not recommend for a beginner or pattern. For normal weekend flying it is cool to take off and pull up the retracts.

I take off pull up the gear, aileron roll and turn away from the field. It is finally flying nicely and landing well but the yaw is a nusiance.

If you are a proficient flier and builder this is a low cost way for retracts and flap fun. But I highly reco. the saito .56 for the power to weight and balance issues.

Happy flying.. Jim

grayle

Well its been a while since I posted, but I have both wings done(not glued together though) one set of flaps and ailerons done, the fuselage, stabilizer/elevator, and the rudder/fin. I decided to go with moveable flaps, and retractable gear. Instead of slotting the rib for the retractable, i just drilled a hole for the push rods, hopefully keeping most of the strength that way. I just joined the AMA and plan to learn how to fly once it warms up. Thanks, Grayle

skypupmut

keep us posted can`t wait to fly mine

jimcork1

My Feedback: (4)

One more update to the Nobler. I noticed it flying in a left yaw. (remember I built the firewall with no offset). I have added a 1/8" shim for right thrust to see if this corrects the yaw. Weather had not been favorable for test flight. I would expect it only to fly better. The saito .56 inverted has been flawless in operation. The La. 46 that would not idle/transition inverted has been installed on a Ugly Stick in the vertical position and runs well. There must be something [:'(] in the crankcase, piston, sleeve that directs fuel improperly when inverted. I won't be using any of the La. engines in any position but vertical or horizontal,, never inverted.

Jim

grayle

Jim, so did that correct the yaw? I built mine with the right thrust. I think I might buy an OS .46 AX. Our local Hobbytown has it for $104.99, beats Towers' priceCan't wait to learn how to fly!!

jimcork1

My Feedback: (4)

I don't know if the right thrust has corrected the problem. I haven't been able to take it out.. Weather and back problems. Hopefully in the next few days.

You mentioned learning how to fly... I hope you aren't planning to "learn flying" on the Nobler, or did you mean learning how the Nobler flies.. It is too hot for a beginner plane.

Also if you are new,, I hope you have an instructor.

jimcork1

My Feedback: (4)

Reguardless of what engine you purchase, I would recommned that you break it in right side up,, then invert and make sure it is reliable inverted. I origionally installed the La. 46 [:'(] and it would not run reliable inverted and when below 1/2 throttle would die[>:].

I pulled the La. 46 and installed it in an Ugly Stick in the vertical position and it has not been a problem.

The nobler now uses a saito .56 inverted and it is reliable.