tkilwein

I have built for more years than I want to admit.

Cost of plane airframes, on left, ARF $600, plane in center - total scratch built -wood all hand cut ~$400, plane on right ARF $340.
plane on left 8 hours RTF, plane in center 80-100 hours RTF, plane on right 6 hour RTF.
Above cost is for airframe only, does not include any equipment.

There is a time to build verses $$$ trade off.

rickpaw

Not just the prices of ARF's are going up, but kits as well. However, it seemed that only products that imported/distributed by Hobbico/Great Planes are going up in price. Just look at the prices for Great Planes, Top Flite kits, Futaba radio gear, and OS/Super Tiger engines. Last time I checked, Top Flite has big bold "Made in USA" sticker on the box.

8178

My Feedback: (17)

My MonoKote rolls are marked “Made in the USA� and I also noticed that my Tower Kaos 40 kit I have stored away is marked “Made in the USA�.

kid chuckles

WAR IN NOVEMBER?

A military showdown with Iran may be fast approaching.

By Joel C. Rosenberg
(Washington, D.C., July 8, 2008) War clouds continue to build in the epicenter. Last month in Rome, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad vowed that the United States and Israel would soon be "annihilated," language he had not used so explicitly since October 2005 when he promised to wipe Israel "off the map" and urged Muslims to "envision a world without the United States." This week, his regime authorized a new series of Iranian war games. He ordered the digging of 320,000 graves to bury the enemies of Islam. He is calling for the unification of the Islamic world politically and economically, including the creation of a single currency.

What's more, Iranian TV is running a new anti-Semitic documentary film series entitled, "The Secret of Armageddon." Setting the stage for a coming apocalyptic war that will usher in the Islamic Messiah known as the Mahdi or the "Twelfth Imam," the series focuses on a series of Bible prophecies that inform Jewish and Christian End Times theology. While the presentation is grossly distorted, some facts do emerge. Iranian scholar Dr. Ismail Shafe'i Sarustani , for example, tells viewers that the word "Armageddon" is "originally a Hebrew word" and "is a real geographical region, situated south of Haifa," noting that "the place was shelled by Hizbullah during the 33-day [July 2006] war." Iranian historian Mohammad-Taqi Taqipour notes that "these [Evangelical Christians], along with the Jews, believe that the War of the End of Days will take place in the desert of Megiddo, in Palestine. They believe that Jesus will return, and that then there will be a millennium of happiness."

The series, however, accuses Jews who were victims of genocide during the very Holocaust Ahmadinejad denies ever happened of actually planning to commit genocide. "There is a genocidal Zionist Jewish plan for the genocide of humanity at the hand of the Zionist Jew-boys," claims one Iranian researcher interviewed for the program. "The Zionist Jew-boys talk about a 'Greater Israel' from the Euphrates to the Nile but their actual goal is world domination." At one point, Iranian researcher Shams Al-Din Rahmani argues that "the goal of the Zionists is the total destruction of Islam."

During the June 7th episode, the narrator embraces anti-Semitic conspiracy theories and proceeds to try to justify Iran's own war plans. "Today, there are many indications that the 'hidden hands' of world Zionism were involved in the 9/11 terrorist attack. According to a large group of Western intellectuals, the Zionists are the real rulers of the United States. According to irrefutable documents published by independent American media outlets, the Zionists used intelligence agents and spies, with the full cooperation of agencies with the country, to carry out this terrorist operation in full view of the world, in order to prepare the ground for taking over Afghanistan and Iraq, and to realize the dream of a greater Israel."

Top Israeli intelligence officials, meanwhile, increasingly believe that time is running out. They believe that Iran could have nuclear weapons within a year and one former Mossad chief is urging his country's leadership to launch a massive series of air strikes against Iranian nuclear and other military facilities before it is too late. Israel's Air Force just conducted a test run of such a bombing mission.

John Bolton, the former U.S. Ambassador to the U.N., says he believes Israel may strike Iran sometime in late fall or early winter, after the U.S. elections in November but before the inauguration of the next American President on January 20. A senior Pentagon officials told the Washington Post several days ago he is worried about the same scenario a November surprise prompting both President Bush and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs to make strong public statements warning the Israelis not to take such actions. Until just a few weeks ago, it was widely believed in Israel that new parliamentary elections would be held in November. But at the last moment, Defense Minister Ehud Barak withdrew his threat of voting to bring down the Olmert government for a few more months, leading some to speculate that Barak may be calculating that Israelis couldn't be fully immersed in an electoral campaign and a bombing campaign simultaneously.

The U.S. does not want Israel to strike. After all, the repercussions of such a war with Iran would be global in nature. Israel would face tens of thousands of incoming missiles not just from Iran but likely from Syria, Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas in Gaza and possibly the West Bank. Some of these missiles could have chemical and/or biological warheads, even if the nuclear warheads in Iran are not yet ready. Ballistic missiles would also be likely fired from Iran at the oil fields in Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States, at oil tankers in the Persian Gulf and the Straight of Hormuz, and at U.S. bases and forces in Iraq. Tens of thousands of suicide bomber cells could be activated in the region especially in Iraq and Israel and perhaps even in Western Europe and the U.S. and Canada. Iranian efforts to topple Jordan's King Abdullah II and/or Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak in favor of radical Islamic regimes friendly to Tehran could also be set in motion. Oil prices could shootfrom $140 a barrel to $300 a barrel or more. U.S. gas prices could spike to $7-$10 or more, with horrific domestic and global economic repercussions.

No wonder Washington doesn't want a war with Iran. No wants such a war. I certainly do not, and neither do the Israelis. Yet, the U.S. does not have a convincing plan to stop the Iranian nuclear weapons program in time. Nor does the U.N., or the E.U. Diplomacy isn't working. Economic sanctions have been imposed on Iran since 1979 to little strategic effect. Unfortunately, the words of Sen. John McCain keep echoing in my head this week. In April 2006, the senior Senator from Arizona appeared on NBC's Meet the Press. He said, "there's only one thing worse than using the option of military action, and that is the Iranians acquiring nuclear weapons." For if Iran gets the Bomb, he said, "I think we could have Armageddon."

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

understand this forum is for our hobby, RC airplanes.
But our hobby doesn't exist in a vacuum.
It is affected, as everything is, by the economic environment in which we live.
And so I hope I haven't offended anyone and that I will be forgiven for speaking about these hard realities. From now on, I will restrict my comments to RC.
Best Regards to All
JC

JC brilliant post , best explantion of the Federal reserve I have ever seen , most americans do not know these facts at all and it does impact our income and our hobby

NorfolkSouthern

The increase in prices has everything to do with ARFs, and the hobby in general. Eventually, the higher costs will start influencing what's available on the market, and our choices will be more limited due to lack of demand. Even engine prices can make or break a purchase. It's why I'm limited to 40 size or smaller. This material is worth discussing. Perhaps as more word gets out, it may give some encouragement to government officials who are considering the regulation of commodities investors. This will at least help some in the reduction of the cost of materials used in the manufacture of our models. I would also like to see some fed policy that would help strengthen currencies, to reduce the use of energy sources and food as a hedge against inflation.

NorfolkSouthern

ramboy

You must be unfamiliar with the Democratic governor of Michigan, Jennifer Granholm. She promised to "blow us away" with her economic plan for the state. Now we have the highest unemployment rate in the US and higher taxes to boot (on the middle class).

Thomas B

My Feedback: (4)

As if the factors combining to create this situation were all the fault of the Republicans.

This has been building for years...Clinton was just lucky that he happened to be in charge during the internet boom, or the decline might have started sooner.

RACJ

Factors causing this situation may or may not be fault of those in control,but the fact that the CEO's(leaders=managers) of our country did nothing about them and now their party's(Republican)nominee for CEO would now have us believe its a mental recession(CEO of Republican's denies problem exists) is their fault.You have to admit a situation exists before you can do anything about it. Insanity= Continuing to do the same thing and somehow expecting a different result! keep voting Republican

JCINTEXAS

RACJ quote: "Continuing to do the same thing and somehow expecting a different result!
keep voting Republican."
__________________________________________________ ____

Steam boilers have a safety valve to blow-off steam if the pressure gets too high.
National elections serve the same purpose.
Makes no real difference who wins.
Nothing of importance changes,
but the people get to blow-off steam.
JC

landeck

My Feedback: (1)

The Republicans are responsible for Hobbico raising their pricesI love it. I guess I should blame Bush for all of my crashes in the last 7 years what with Republicans being responsible for all that has gone wrong in that period!

Bruce

SunShyne

My Feedback: (68)

last warning before I nuke the entire thread, stay on topic and keep politics out of this discussion. I know its hard to with this topic but I have to ask you to do so

Super Splatter

hear no evil , see no evil, and of course speak no evil, just spend money

bye, bye thread

jship

My Feedback: (4)

ARF prices on the rise, is not the Republicans problem. This is not the Democrats problem. It’s our problem. This is not just a problem with Tower, or Great planes or any of the others. To blame it on them would be like shooting the messenger. This country has problems.

For Me it is time to start building some of the kits I have laying around.

john

Fun, by another name, building.

kochj

With the economy the way it is.....
We are all working more....
This leads Less time to build......
I have a hard time just finishing a .50 size ARF let alone spend 100's of hours on a kit......
Then after I put them together...... My longest Lasting plane after it's first flight recently, has only been a couple of weeks!......
Just very bad luck.... I guess...

I had the chance to buy up some ARF's from the Great planes take over of Goldberg and Lanier....... and the Disc. of Great Planes air crafts.....
I don't think that there will be deals like those for a very long time!>....

Glad I buoght them but If I dump one of them in the ground I will be hard pressed to find parts....

I hope we all can get through these hard times.....

JK....

8178

My Feedback: (17)

I’ve been on my self imposed ARF abstinence for a week now and the results are quite amazing. The first day or so I think I might have been having some withdraw symptoms and found myself looking at the Tower website but the funny thing nothing looked very interesting. I now feel completely free from ARFs and have absolutely no desire to buy one. I’m surprised how short my detox was and find myself planning scratch and kit building projects. I think if I can do it anyone can. The freedom is wonderful!

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

besides all of the logical post that have stated the obviuos , its also about supply and demand , if they make it , price it and you buy it at there price that generates a profit , guess what , they will make more lol , its that simple .
One of my favorite hobby shops said that his Horiszon ATFs outsell his top flight ARFs 3 to 1 , if this is a national thing it would be interesting to see if Great Planes continues to release new ARfs at the same pace . Its also obviuos that Horizon release planes at a much faster pace then Great planes .

On the other hand , look at the new and very fast releases of KMP , a corsair was announced 30 days ago , now two new P51s , at $489 , the demand must be there or they would not keep releasing the planes

kid chuckles

Got political again and did not want to get your topic shut down. Sorry.

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

Yes that is a seriuos problem , too big for me to even make a suggestion . I see it everywhere and even in the major hotel chains that operate in the bordering towns like southern Cal and Texas . I will be in SanAntoini this week and see this issue everywhere .

What really surprises me about this issues is that its lost tax revenue for the gov and considering a financial crime will give you more jail time then a crime against a fellow human , I am surprised that its allowed to continue .

I still will add that its still supply and demand , I have a great example , CMP just released its new BF109 , I predicted the released cost because I know there business model , its always the same . The distributor takes the risk on the full opening container , so he ask for a $279 to $299 price , if he sells them all at that price it will stay at that price .
If not the planes will be sold at the $199 thru $229 range .
We live in the "I have to have this now world " as a result we pay more because the demand is driven higher , the CMP P40 was released at $279 , the average selling price now is $199 thru $229 .
Look at the lines for the new i-phone , do we really need it ??? do we need to wait hours in line for it ???? do we need it now ????what did we do a week ago before it was lanuched ??? remember , demand is great , so supply is limited and cost will continue to be pushed up , unfortnuitly , this will be out story on fule , we are too dependant on foreign oil so we will continue to pay more until we do something about it