kenneth74

Hi everyone,

It is apparent that cost is the main deciding factor, just as in almost any industries. Screw the quality(good to have,not necessity) or the moral part(how much is 1kg of moral? can i sell it to offset the cost).

tesujin; your rational does not hold; making a scale replica is not copying, its an industry and profession. Companies commissioned model companies or professionals modellers to make scale replicas for marketing purposes. In our case, its the other way round, Model company (Big T here)pays royalities to make scale replicas of their products.

As Tomzag has pointed out, it is stallling innovation. Innovator does the hardwork but get cursed for pricing. Face it, RC tanking is still very very niche market; I believe we benefitted because Tamiya by chance or passion chose the RC tank to showcase scale modelling excellence not for profit making. The profit it generates is puny compared to RC cars, or traditional scale models. These bootlegs issue i think is biting in, because evidently Big T is slowing down release and maybe stopping (most of you actually ask why?, its us, we are the reason)

With regards to the HL vs Tamiya differences, the modern copycat is not stupid; They do not copy exactly; they "incorporate cost cutting" differences and other obvious change to differentiate. You can't sue them outright. It hard to even trace them in the first place; The most they close shop and pop up tomorrow as Heng Lan, or Leng Hong or something else...The fact remains they escaped the huge overheads and thereby having lower cost and better pricing. They also have low or zero accountability. If something breaks down; they will just tell you straight in the face, sell you $70 what quality you expect; you want quality go buy Tamiya. Don't bother me.

I would like to quote Dragon, a good competitor in the 1/35 worthy of respect; Their initial releases never mimic Tamiya's. If HL is a real competitor; they would have like Dragon choose something else like the Abrams/Panther/PzIII/PzIV as their initial release; Evidently this "fly by night" copycat suddenly realise that there's good money to be made; and now they will try to do something new themselves (also to stamp out copycat image)but found cost prohibitive and danger of even lower rate scums to copy theirs. But its easy for them to recover; just copy the next Tamiya release to fund it.

schutzstaffel

welcome ken ,interesting post.

Templars83

Thank you very much - I am very glad you feel the way you do on the matter. As such, my confidence in the site has been renewed. I did not even know there was the ability to restore the thread, but I applaud the move wholeheartedly.

jeffm912

This thread has probably been the best one I've read to date. I have 2 heng long tiger 1's that are near tamiya specs with a little modification, who's to say I'm not ripping off heng long by modifying from what they made to call it my own. I also have a 1/6 scale field of armor tiger 1 tank. 1/6 is nice to have, what I see is Tamiya with it's 1/16 scale near the price of my 1/6 tiger which was $600 USD plus 2 powerwheels motors, esc's, gearboxes, turret rotation, and firing mechanism for 12gauge shells. With all of this it puts me near the tamiya leopard price. That leads me to believe that someone is making a killing on the price of their kits. As for heng longs cheap copy, with some effort can be made right. As people have said in here before a battle system for the heng long is on the brink of dropping. I hope it does soon, then if all's compatible then who's to say we can't all play the same game. I love armor just as much as the next person being a soldier it's a way of life. These kits just allow me to take my work to the house. I'd like to congratulate everyone here who has given some input, if new people to the tank scene can read this it will make them more educated on the subject.

Templars83

What is the brand on your 1/6th Tiger? The bare kit cost $600? You have sort of perked my interest with that price. Please post some photos if you can. Probably best to start it on a new thread though.

heavyaslead

Templar

You mentioned dropping 500 for a 6th Panther...

http://www.panzerwerk.com//index.php...emart&Itemid=1

Well, double that and add some change, and you too can have this magnificant!... You get the picture!

Saw these guys at IPMS 2006 in Atlanta and they have a full range of 6th vehicles that can be modified for RC.

Templars83

The product info is a bit small there - its not a kit I gather but what exactly do you get with this?

heavyaslead

Yes, after checking the FAQ they are static only and may take up to a year to make after ordering. A YEAR! I could save up for a REAL 6th scale in that time!

Field of Armor made a PVC Tiger I kit for 600-800 dollars. I am not sure if they still make these but I have seen a couple on Ebay in the last couple of months. These guys may still sell the 6th FOA Tiger

http://www.r-c-tanks.com/

Templars83

Well, someone will make these affordable one day - who knows, maybe Heng Long will see the same opportunity in the 1/6th market they saw in the 1/16. With all of those tanks $2500 and up, there would be a market for it to be sure..

James S.

This may sound funny but its what I heard from tech support at 21st when I called for help with my transmitter. The reason you dont see that 1/9th scale abrams in 1/6th is because They largest they could make the tank and it fit in a box that Walmart would accept was 1/9th.

Minibichus

My Feedback: (1)

Hello all,
Is nice to have competition in all markets, but I think the cheapies are geared more towards the casual RCer than the Tamiyas ones that are aimed to the serious RC consumer. The Tamiyas come with considerably better electronics and you get to use your own radio, which most of the ppl who aren't a casual RC'er seem to have one or more already anyways.

As for RTRs tanks, well, here is what I think:

Most well known brand 1/10 scale RTR car retail for 200-300 dollars. For example, the AE NTC3 RTR has decent electronics on it and its a decent car to play around and it can be raced off the box, it might not be the fastest car under the sun, but for 250 dollars its not bad, so is the Nitro 4-tec and all those. But then again, this is if you just want to have decent RC car that you can race and have fun with. Because you can look one step furher at cars like the FT NTC3, or the Serpent 720: S.720 retails for 450 bucks, it comes bare, just a rolling chassis, no engine, no radio, no nothing on it. So, it ends up being 450 chassis + ( cheaping out here now...) 89 dollar for pull-start engine, 20-30 dollars for tires, 20 dollars for fuel, 7.89 for plug igniter, 10 bucks for glowplugs, 40 dollar for 2 servos, 100 dollar radio/rx. That is an 800 dollar invetsment just to own a Serpet 720 with a cheap ***** setup, (like owning an McLaren F1 with a weedeater engine on it). With all those rip-offs, you can still choose to purchase a brand spaking new 39.95 1/10 nitro RTR RC car on ebay and have an RC car too!. Now my question is, how do you think they compare? How does the "whoknowswhereitwasmade" 39.95 RC nitro car compares to the top of the line Serpent 720 even if its bundled with a "elcheapo" electronics package? Both of them are RC cars, arent they?, so, is the Serpent 720 a rip-off?

Even comparing the RTR NTC3 to one of those shady 39.99 RTR RC cars that sell on ebay is the same comparison we have here with the cheapies and the Tamiyas. Why? Its all about the parts parts parts. The parts for the NTC3, even in RTR form can be purchased at every LHS in the country (US) and the same goes for the Tamiya tanks, even though it might be a bit harder to get the parts than just walking to the LHS, you can still purchase every component of their tanks at their website and on some distributors. To top that, they have a good warranty dept. (as I've experienced) and they support their products quite well. So, remember that you are not only paying for the tank itself!

Granted, the cheapies might eventually get better and better over time, but as of now, they are the cheap ones and whats most important: they have to be because Tamiya appeals to a completely different market. Most of the ppl who'll buy the 39.99 tank on ebay will probably drive the tank for a few days, weeks and then put it away on a shelf and never touch it again. Also, not everybody who'll buy a 39.99 cheapie tank will know how to hook up a 75mhz surface receiver to the tank, or even how to put it all together, some ppl just don't want to put it all together and they don't care about how it looks, they just want something to play with for the moment and then move on.

BTW, I own a Tamiya Tiger 1 tank. I bought it 5 years ago and still runs strong.

G.

noddywa

HI..to all
keep up the good work and ideas
I need to fix my dodgy panther 1:16 scale HL
Have a look at this website

http://www.henglongtoys.net/eng/tk3.html#

noddywa

HI ....Take A look at this

http://www.henglongtoys.net/eng/tk3.html#

FMB42

I find it funny that some people insult HL for "copying" (made in Japan) Tamiya products. Like Japan has never copied anything in the past!

pattonrocked45

I dont really know how henlong could copy Tamiya because who really holds a patent on a tiger tank? Maybe the 3rd reich gets a nickel everytime we buy a henlong or tamiya?

strv122

Amuro:

Help me understand, are you saying your Leopard kit did NOT include full bearing set and gun barrel? I have two Leopards and both came with ALL parts, check your parts listing guide and you'll see them. If this is true and you did not get those parts, I hope you didn't have to pay for them because they are standard with the kit.

I know that Tamiya's latest truck kit (Ford 350?) doesn't come with bearings and at $600.00 plus dollars, makes no damn sense.

Will

digger1976

Keep in mind that Tamiya does not sell just tanks. They are a 'big business' with plenty of other products to pick up the slack of sales on other products that are not doing as well. Even though the tanks are expensive, I am sure that the manufacturing cost is a fraction of the msrp sale. How expensive can it be to put parts on a plastic tree? Therefore, even if they sell 1000 RC tanks, they are still making a huge profit per tank. Where as HL's tanks are cheaper, they might have to sell quadruple the amount of tanks to get the same profit on the tanks as Tamiya. I personally think it all balances out. I agree that it is a healthy competition, but Tamiya's quality is slightly better. I don't believe that HL is trying to run Tamiya out of business on the RC tanks, but they maybe trying to win over their customers with their cheaper tanks. Tamiya will eventually run themselves out of business in regards to the RC tank industry. Their tanks are over priced, but yet I still found myself with two of them. Tamiya realizes this, and that is why they still charge an arm and a leg. They know that there is a population out there that is willing to spend the cash regardless of price. It's kind of like buying a Honda Accord or a Porche 911. Porche is more expensive, but people still buy them and they are still in business even though their sales are lower than Honda's

Silentbob343

That kit retails in stores for less than $350, but yes it should come with bearings.