Futurase

My Feedback: (10)

I am going to try my first Composite plane later this year and I have made my mind up for a Comp ARF 2.3M Extra 330L. I love 330L's and have been intrigued by composite planes for along time. I have one problem. I know myself and I know all composite planes have seams. Some are finished well and some are not. I am a anal retentive and a seam will driv me nuts.

I am going to go with the all white top and red bottom one and put a paint job on it. It will have a lot of white so the weight added will be minimal as I know how fast paint can add weight. What should be used to fill/blend the seams out before it is painted???

I know next to nothing about composites and this is goign to be a learning experience for me. In fact I may not use paint, but vinyl, but to invest in a plane like this and have a seam right there for me to see would drive me nuts. I know that makes me hard to deal with, but it is just the may I am.

Thanks for the help,

Norman Ross Jr.

rcblimppro

Norman, the seams on a Comp ARF are usually pretty small. On the painted in the mold airplanes they put a matching tape stripe down the seam and at 5 feet is is barley noticable. On the 4 of these that I have painted it took one medium coat of urethane primer over the seam and some feathering with 320 grit to prep for paint. Personally I can live much better with a 1/16" seam and leaving the pound of paint and vinyl on the ground.


Shawn

Futurase

My Feedback: (10)

I am a anal retentive sucker as I have mentioned but I guess I should have mentioned I am a anal retentive (I think I like typing that[:-] for some reason) sucker about weight too. I HATE a fat bird. To me there are three things about a great flying plane, Wingloading, Wingloading and Wingloading. The lower the better.

Shawn,
Do you think it would take excesive weight to cover the seams??? Also which would weigh more, paint or vinyl??? For a color scheme. If it takes more than 6 ounces you can forget it, it isn't worth it for sure.

Also I see pics of some guys side mounting the engine (DA 50) and I assume using a can. How is the power of a DA 50 and can. I have only run mine my DA a Slimline pitts. I get 65-6600 RPM with a Mejzlik 23x8 now. How will a can compare??? I really want to stay away from a full length pipe as I do not want the hassle.

Thanks,

Norman Ross Jr.

rcblimppro

The lightest way aound this is going to be to get one painted in the mold. They do a pretty good job of hiding the seam. If you go with an all white version and add just enough paint to it to hide the seams and add some color I think it would add maybe 1/2 pound over the airbrushed model. In most cases in the past the all white versions coming from the factory weighed more than the painted versions to start with.



Shawn

rcdude7

My Feedback: (264)

The weight of the paint to cover the seams is going to be minimal if you keep it down to a narrow stripe that is color matched well. I think a very detailed paint scheme is going to weigh more than a vinyl scheme with the same level of detail. A simple paint scheme may be much lighter. Clear coat is what will really add the weight quick.
The 2.3 is a fairly large plane for the DA-50 to haul around, It will provide decent power but will not set your hair on fire. Besides, the DA is so light that all moveable weight within the airframe must be moved forward as much as possible and even then you might have to add ballast (dead weight) to the motor dome to get your CG right. There really is no penalty going with a slightly larger, heavier engine beacause of this fact.
My 2.3 is one of the paint-in-the-mold versions and I have a 3W-75ius mounted in it. I'm sure it will have plenty of power for anything. I cannot comment on its performance though as it is not yet finished. It has been shelved for the time being in favor of other projects.

Good luck with yours.

Futurase

My Feedback: (10)

Thanks for the help guys. I would think the all white one has to be painted white on top and red on the bottom just like the color scheme ones. Basically both should weigh the same, but one is finished and one has have a color scheme on it and thus weigh added.

A painted in the mold one is no doubt the lightest way to go. The weigh penalty to blend all the seams and put a paint schme on it is to me not worth it.

Thanks,

Norman Ross Jr.

DKjens

My Feedback: (50)

Norman,
A painted in the mold (intricate patterns) will often be lighter than a solid one or two tone plane. The reason for this is, that the guy (staff) who paints and lays up the intricately painted planes are more experienced, and will often remove more unnessecary resin, than the guy (staff) building the solid colors.
The paint shot on a painted in the mold airplane is so thin, that even shooting multiple colors will not add weight over shooting a solid color.

DKjens

wind junkie

My Feedback: (1)

DKJens,

Are you saying the all white planes are really similar to white gel coats? (ie they are not simply white paint applied first followed by the normal layup, but the first mold application is actually resin with white pigment added?)

I would have suspected it was just white paint applied first.

In either case, the all white schemes are made so they look great -- the whole plane being white. Consequently a lot of white pigment needs to be applied. It's assumed folks will paint over these colors to add their stripes, or other features, so you have a good starting white base coat EVERYWHERE.

If you get a painted in the mold scheme which has various darker colors involved, it takes far less of the darker paint to cover, and you don't need follow up bright colors (ie, white) to cover the dark to give it a brighter appearance. That plus the fact that the artist already knows exactly where all the colors (and any blendings/backing colors) will go means he won't waste paint building it up where it won't show.

Futurase

My Feedback: (10)

You guys make a lot of good point. If you stop and think about it it sure does make good sense. As I said I am no composites engineer for sure. This is a new area of the hobby for me.

Norman Ross

Rcpilot

My Feedback: (78)

I suggest you buy the plane and have a look at the seams before you go and reinvent the wheel about trying to hide the seams.

You might be pleasently surprised at the quality, and a tiny seam on the bottom won't bother you a bit.

To me, it's like buying a bottle of wine at a restaurant. The waiter comes over and offers you the cork--so you can sniff it. I AIN'T GONNA EAT THE FRIGGIN' CORK!!! I'm there to DRINK the wine. [:-] Gimme that bottle!!

Same thing with the airplane:
You gonna stand there on the ground and admire it? [sm=stupid.gif] Polish it and wax it? [sm=stupid.gif] Or you gonna FLY it?

You'll never notice a tiny seam when it's in the air.

DKjens

My Feedback: (50)

Rcpilet,
I agree 100% with you about admiring it all day long or flying it. To me, if the plane looks good a few feet away, then it's fine with me. Norman however, as he has pointed out himself, is quite anal retentive, ah Norman, it does feel good to write that, is quite anal retentive about it being perfect he he.

From what I hear, the new planes coming from Composite-ARF, such as the new 260, the new SX and the new MX2, should have a better finish than seen before from Andreas. A friend has the new 260, and he is lacking words when describing the fit and finish, as has others in this forum.

I think that if Norman was a 120% perfect airplane in composites, he has to build it himself. If you are willing to put on your own paintjob or vinyl, after blending and perfecting all seams, then buy a solid color. If you want the lightest end results that also looks good, which can be anything from minor blemish to 99% perfect, 100% perfect if you are extremely lucky, then get a prepainted in the mold plane.

DKjens

Rcpilot

My Feedback: (78)

I understand what he's talking about. I'm an anal retentive nut job too. Life's just too short to build ugly airplanes. Just ask Retnavycdr how much of a perfectionist I am--he'll tell ya. But, I'll bet he will also tell you that I build a pretty nice model.

But, even I won't go that crazy, where I'd worry about the seam on a Composite ARF. I go to great lengths to build nice linkages, and not do anything sloppy or half-arsed. But--the seam on a Composite plane? Come on buddy. [sm=spinnyeyes.gif] Just go fly it. They are beautifull airplanes and they fly like nothing I've ever seen. [sm=thumbup.gif]

Just be careful when you handle them. The bottom of the fuse--on the belly--is so fragile that you can literally put your hand right through it just by picking up the plane. The wings are fragile too. You have to pick them up by the LG and very gently either grab the TE of the wing at the root, or put your whole arm under the belly and support it as you lift it. But, that being said, they aren't meant to crash. They are meant to fly. If you build a plane to crash, it'll fly like a turd.

A local guy has been twisting my arm to buy an extra one that he has lying around. I just can't afford it. I want it, but I don't need it. It's the Extra 2x2 size. Blue and Yellow.

RTK

My Feedback: (1)

Rcpilet--They are not any more fragile than any other plane I currently own.