kenneth74

Hi all RC tank lovers,

did all of you realise that HL is killing Big T's RC tank venture. I have just examined most of HL's release, they are just bad copies of Tamiya's range.
By doing this, they are getting away with the alot of overheads, which Tamiya absorbed. Now you wonder why Tamiya is now getting slow to launch new tanks.
i would bet HL is in the planning of a whole new release from the profit garnered from these copies. So don' t comlain if the big T abandoned or slow down its releases.

Bottomline is just cost...but don't complain of Big T if you buy or have bought a HL....

outcastrc

If a dinosaur goes extinct because it doesn't compete for the food it needs then it deserves to go extinct.

I would hate for Tamiya to stop making tanks. But they choose to charge what they do and have to live with the results. If that means they sell one for every hundred or thousand HL's then who's the smarter company?

Drop the price by 1/2 and sell 10x more. Drop the price to 1/4 and sell 100x. Thats the nature of business. I hope more companies get on the HL bandwagon. Then maybe Big T will grow up. Tho I doubt it... They'd rather discontinue the line then change they way they do things... Theres too many examples of them still refusing to change on the much higher comtetitive vehicle side. (like still MSC and bushings when the rest of the world supplies esc and bearings for the same price.

FFR2608

Its unfortunate but I agree. Arent Tamiya tanks made in China also? Someone is making too high a profit margin on them If Hl tanks are being sold at $70. I know the differences in quality but raw plastic stock for injection mold machines costs the same for either tank. Dont forget, Some of the Tamiya tooling is over 20 years old. Well paid for by now.
That being said, I still prefer Tamiya and absolutely love building their kits. For now you get what you pay for. Expect HL and others to catch up very soon. Especially if they can produce an IR battle system, that works with Tamiya. For now , I scratch build.

DH

sownare

What truly separates Tamiya from HenLong is the DMD and MF units. The electronics are the deciding factor and cannot be easily or cheaply copied. If you put the Tamiya DMD and MF unit into a HenLong Tiger, then you've pretty much have a Tamiya tank, more or less. Tamiya's DMD and MF units are the only set of electrics designed specifically for scale tanks. They have no competitors, and quality stuff like Thomas Benedini's sound modules, which do not control tank movement or functions, are very costly as well. I know. I have his t34 and Panzer III units. If anyone can design and manufacture something like Tamiya's DMD and MF unit and offer them at a third the cost of Tamiya, then the prices would truly come down. It isn't about the plastics, but the electronics.

tomzag

My Feedback: (-1)

kenneth74
applause to you! you are exactly right. I have beening trying to point this out all year long but cause many HL templars hate me.
if we keep encourageing this kind of business by buying them due to low cost, we would have no good product in market.

tom

raimian

the main problem is that alot of people who enjoy tanks can't afford the tamiya ones.

i would love to have a tamiya tank, but the £500-£900 price tag is way above what i would ever be able to afford, where as the heng long ones are £100-£150 which i can just about afford.

so unless tamiya start dropping their prices most people will opt for buying heng long tanks instead.

plus heng long tanks are getting better with better parts as more people are buying them.

outcastrc

Raimian: Exactly!

Nobudy is saying Tamiya arn't better. Just most people can't afford them. So who's fault is that? The entire income base that people live in or Tamiya for charging rediculous prices for a bit of plastic. Its not our fault HL can do the same plastic for pennies. Sure the DMD is something we can all crave, but few can afford. And seriously I don't think its worth a fraction of what they charge. If HL did a DMD upgrade do you think it would be hundreds or 20-30 bucks. Yet again Tamiya will lose the majority...

You have to consider the demographics of the people that buy these things. Sure some can afford it. Some only do tanks so they can justify it. Others just plain can't. Still others are into many types of RC, so will only allocate a portion of their spending to tanks. No matter how many ways you look at it Tamiya is missing out on about 80-90% of the market share because of their prices.

James S.

What will make a big difference is if somebody comes out with an aftermarket system that is compatible with the Tamiya Battle Unit for ~50.00. That plus good proportional steering/speed control would allow more people to join the ranks of 1/16 IR battlers.

raimian

here you go, a tamiya compatible battle system that is almost ready for use.

http://www.freewebtown.com/jyliang/eng/index_e.html (DBF)

http://pages.cthome.net/chioc/battlecircuit.htm

James S.

Question does it hit and take hits with the TBU? to really complete is must interact successfully and reliablly with TBU.
Plus what is the cost?

FFR2608

(Of course its not about the plastics)



Look on the back of the DMD and see where its manufactured.

(Im actually suprised the DMD hasen't been copied allready) I guarantee you they can be built much cheaper. There just needs to be a larger market for them.

I have had the same experiences with RC submarines. I scratch build all my own hulls because they are far too expensive from small manufacturers.Generally, $500- $700 for a hull and appendages. Thats all you get.

Here is my type 23 in 1/32nd scale. all scratch

CapnCrunch43

Cool sub, FFR.

No need for "Silent Hunter 3" there.

raimian

according the guy that gave me the links they are compatible with the TBU and he estimates cost at somewhere around $70, but he is still a bit unsure about that at the moment.

gorehound

Hi

Not wanting to start an argument or take sides but it is not just RC where Tamiya are viewed as charging high prices. If you look at their static 1:35 scale range they are more expensive than their competitors and the quality issue is not a valid argument. If you look at Dragon who produce some of the finest plastic kits of armour around they are not only cheaper but come complete in the box with photo etch and metal turned barrels, individual track links etc etc etc.... If you also then look at Tamiya you have to buy add ons (like the photo etch tank straps for their leclerc or engine deck screens for their Tigers) at additional costs that are not in the base kit and are really needed to produce the complete model. I am not bashing Tamiya's quality as they really are nice kits but when you look at the competitors the Tam stuff does not really stack up as such good value as the competition. And it is not only Dragon who are offering better value but Trumpeter, AFC Club, Tristar, Italeri and other makers to boot in their own way (maybe better add ins like the PE or lower price for basic kit). I know price variations may differ in other countries and there may not be such a discrepancy (for example I believe Italeri is not so cheap in US as here in Europe) but for what you get in the box they do not really stack up so well in the price wars, especially as I say against Dragon.

Finally on the subject of price, if we look at Trumpeter who were looked upon as producing some not too good kits a few years ago they are now producing some really good stuff, many kits of which were of odd vehicles that no other maker has gone near. Who knows, HL may well end up in a similar position in a year or two once they have some experience in the market.

Lastly, can I ask why people think the HL Tiger is an exact rip off when it is so different in many ways. The suspension being a main area as it is a totally different design to the Tam one - which I know is totally correct and pretty amzing before any TAMIYA folks has a pop at me for that statement. Also the HL turret is a different (and incorrect) shape if you know what to look at along with other quite noticible differences. The blatant rip off is obviously the pics on the box and I do find that quite poor and think HL should be taken to task for. However, it is a Tiger which if you really want to be picky is a Henschel Company design from 1942 when it was displayed for the first time on Hitlers Birthday - so my question is that they are they not ALL ripping of Henschel?

May the bun fight begin.....

Gorehound

kurtmeyer

is tamiya rc tanks made in china or japan?

sownare

According to the lables on my DMD and MF units, the answer is "made in Japan". I'm not sure about the plastics and metal.

kurtmeyer

hmmmm,does anyone know?

Killhammer

I don't Think that HL's cheaper copies are making Tamiya slow down releasing a new tank if anything I think it would make them want to put out a new tank some thing no one has at this time. This is kind of off the path but back in the early 90's you had the same thing going on in the computer world, when Intel was the only game in town. Intel would only put out new chips when they felt like it even then the chip was no big leap but they would charge a pretty penny for it. Then along comes AMD, their chips where direct knock offs of in Intel chip at a lower price. Intel did not quit making chips it started to make better and faster chips and on it went. How that AMD had challenged Intel we have all kinds of chips, You can now get a computer for less then $400 when that same computer at one time would have cost $4000.
myself I'm glad that HL makes a $80 tank with the details that it dose have. I was looking for some thing to run around the yard that was little more the just a toy. I would some day like to get a Tamiya But a $600 for the tank and $300 for the transmitter it is out of my price range for now, that and my wife would blow a main gasket at spending that on a "toy".

Jeff

gorehound

Grab the tin hats and head for the trenches - somebody called them "toys".......

TANKDUEL

Tom, the Tamiya Twins' job is done Time for us to ride off into the sunset, onto the next 'town' that needs to be cleared of Henlong. There's a new sheriff here, his name is Kenneth

CJ Mahoney

Popcorn Alerter: Warning Long story

On one of the threads I explained that I had done research on the HL product line, now the reason behind this research was to try and stop the influx of these tanks into New Zealand because people not related to the hobby were unable to distinguish the difference between
Tamiya and Heng Long and were not interested in join any rc tank club because they had been stung by Heng Long, some even payed $500. and more for them and the advertising on the box was just a copy of Tamiya (this is was Heng Long's first version, at this time only the Tiger was the only one out and had no sound, no smoke just a simple rc).

We at RCTC New Zealand approached Tamiya New Zealand and told them about this problem the owner told us they new all about them but was unable to do anything, so we took over and had them almost stopped. No stores would sell them with the exception of an online auction called "Trademe" once we stoped them from allowing the trading of these tanks, we would win the war.....BUT!!

We negotiate with Trademe and they agreed that if Tamiya New Zealand admitted in a statement to them that the box was false advertising and a copy of their product they would agree to stop all sales of the item. I told Tamiya New Zealand this and they told me a statement was being written as we spoke.

It never was written, it was never sent, the tank is still being sold on trademe, after that we informed Tamiya HQ in Japan..over and over and over....no reply! We told Tamiya USA who did not care.....we tryed and tryed but Tamiya is completely out of touch with people in the market of their own most expensive product line.

Now Hen Long has improved their product and is selling their tanks as fast as they can make them this new M41 is the first...I hope of and new non-copied line of tanks and I .. yes me one of the biggest Tamiya flag wavers in the world, is buying Heng Long, because HL is expanding a dry market and Tamiya is just a sleeping giant thats loosing their market and should have awoken!


John

icecreamslick

My Feedback: (9)

All Tamiya needs to do to make me happy (which should be their #1 goal ) is to sell the DMD and MF units for a reasonable price, rather than having the price of those two components equal to the cost of an entire Tamiya kit. I understand that if the electronics were cheaper to come by, people would probably buy fewer Tamiya kits, and would instead use the DMD and MF in cheaper tanks. However, I think they could still make money by the sale of just the electronics, anyway. They would probably have to step up production in order to meet the demands.

I would certainly rather buy the Tamiya electronics to put in a Bandai kit, for example, rather than having to buy two kits (Tamiya and Bandai) in order to build one functioning tank that suits my taste.

Tamiyas price will probably never come down because they have no real competition in that price range. [&o]

Killhammer

Thats what I was trying to say I my last post with the AMD and Intel thing. At one time all you had was intel and you and to take what they gave you at very high price. Then AMD challenged that so prices came down and you got more verity.



Jeff

tomzag

My Feedback: (-1)

Jason, call me if you need another set of DMD and MF. so i can sent them off with the tracks. getting there.

schutzstaffel

i think both companies deserve respect ,

the poor can now enjoy rc-tanking ,will only be better for the rc world.
the prices of add ons and metal tracks is already going down.

tamiya wont stop production because another company(not now,their too big),
also have a enormous retailers system around the world.

just wished that tam would lower they`re prices(cannot build a collection at those prices)will put that money on my dirtbike before or something more usefull .

with h.l. another new member for rc universe that will probably buy 1 tamiya in his life.

tamiya ,
where is the 1:16 panther,centurion,jagpanther,kv1,t88
and m1abram (best seller)?
someone here ,in a previous topic,said something like : producing 1 each year [].