why doesn;t anyone make a twin ARF plane?
07-26-2003, 08:58 PM
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ARF? Not.
smartman300:
There are still ARF twins available, but they are not looking at a market anywhere nearly as large as there is for single engined planes.
One is the Diablotin Twin, look here:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...Diablotin+twin
Also, KMP and Morris have ARF P-38s, and several more will come up in a search.
But none are beginner's planes. Not meaning beginner flier, but twin beginner.
It's not a whole new world, butthere are enough differences that you would be well advised to start with a forgiving plane. Much greater probability of long airframe life.
The little twin in my avatar is about ten years old, it was my first twin, scratch built, and it is a continuing source of wonder to me that it survived its first season. It is not an easy airplane to handle.
Buttein #2 was, and is, a very nice airplane. It's just a little newer than the Tiggerkitty, fully aerobatic, just a sweetheart to fly. Nearest commercial KIT is the Twin-Air 45, Northeast Aerodynamics. $155 to your door. Not quite an ARF, but an easy build. Jump in and try it.
Bill.
URL: www.ne-aero,com]
There are still ARF twins available, but they are not looking at a market anywhere nearly as large as there is for single engined planes.
One is the Diablotin Twin, look here:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...Diablotin+twin
Also, KMP and Morris have ARF P-38s, and several more will come up in a search.
But none are beginner's planes. Not meaning beginner flier, but twin beginner.
It's not a whole new world, butthere are enough differences that you would be well advised to start with a forgiving plane. Much greater probability of long airframe life.
The little twin in my avatar is about ten years old, it was my first twin, scratch built, and it is a continuing source of wonder to me that it survived its first season. It is not an easy airplane to handle.
Buttein #2 was, and is, a very nice airplane. It's just a little newer than the Tiggerkitty, fully aerobatic, just a sweetheart to fly. Nearest commercial KIT is the Twin-Air 45, Northeast Aerodynamics. $155 to your door. Not quite an ARF, but an easy build. Jump in and try it.
Bill.
URL: www.ne-aero,com]
07-26-2003, 09:03 PM
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why doesn;t anyone make a twin ARF plane?
smartman300,
There are other options.. You could have someone build you
a plane.. There are several people close to you who can build
you something.. Roger Layton is in your area and a good builder
and I think he is a member of Rock Valley R/C Flyers... He has a
preference for warbirds but you could always ask..
There are other options.. You could have someone build you
a plane.. There are several people close to you who can build
you something.. Roger Layton is in your area and a good builder
and I think he is a member of Rock Valley R/C Flyers... He has a
preference for warbirds but you could always ask..
08-04-2003, 07:31 PM
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Twin Trainers
OK, let's see if we can get manufacture's to look at this.
What would be the correct or prefered size for such an arf twin, that is not too difficult to fly?
What would be the correct or prefered size for such an arf twin, that is not too difficult to fly?
08-04-2003, 07:50 PM
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My preference
How about a Tiger 60 with Twin 40's
Big wing to handle the extra load, easy to fly and the ARF wouldn't take too much to modify into a twin. 40's are cheap, could add retracts, etc...
Lanier -- ya listening ? American made Twin ARF for under $200 that flies WELL with a pair for 40'ish (12-16 oz weight) engines.
After flying my Twinstar for the first time this weekend, I'd say the biggest issue I have with it is the wing loading. Definitely not a glider.
but, ooohh - the sound! a pair of OS-30's sound great at 10k RPM - like a WWII bomber! Kind of fly's like one too. I wish it had another 6" of wing.
Big wing to handle the extra load, easy to fly and the ARF wouldn't take too much to modify into a twin. 40's are cheap, could add retracts, etc...
Lanier -- ya listening ? American made Twin ARF for under $200 that flies WELL with a pair for 40'ish (12-16 oz weight) engines.
After flying my Twinstar for the first time this weekend, I'd say the biggest issue I have with it is the wing loading. Definitely not a glider.
but, ooohh - the sound! a pair of OS-30's sound great at 10k RPM - like a WWII bomber! Kind of fly's like one too. I wish it had another 6" of wing.
08-04-2003, 09:21 PM
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Re: My preference
Originally posted by jschenck
How about a Tiger 60 with Twin 40's
Lanier -- ya listening ? American made Twin ARF for under $200 that flies WELL with a pair for 40'ish (12-16 oz weight) engines.
How about a Tiger 60 with Twin 40's
Lanier -- ya listening ? American made Twin ARF for under $200 that flies WELL with a pair for 40'ish (12-16 oz weight) engines.
08-05-2003, 12:00 AM
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why doesn;t anyone make a twin ARF plane?
I'd like to see just a regular high wing plane with 4 .40s on it. t should have 2 fuselages, like it was kit bashed together.
That would be AWESOME!
That would be AWESOME!
08-05-2003, 12:03 AM
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Bashed Into Twin Wing Loading
jschenck
I ran into the same thing with wing loading after my first kit bash.
If I could add my two cents as a help.
It is late to add additional wing length, but if you will add "Wing Plates" or sometimes called wing dams to the wing tips, the plane will feel like you added four inches in length to the wing length due to extra lift.
Suggest make the plates 3/4 inch outside the complete shape of the wing end tip, both top and bottom. The idea is to catch the air that normally escapes off of the wing tip.
Note, this is not to be confused with the top wing tips you now see on most Boening jets. That is to reduce vortex, not increase lift. If you are concerned about the effectiveness of this,( I was), then set the plates up as bolt on to the last rib.
I promise you will never remove.
Good Luck,
I ran into the same thing with wing loading after my first kit bash.
If I could add my two cents as a help.
It is late to add additional wing length, but if you will add "Wing Plates" or sometimes called wing dams to the wing tips, the plane will feel like you added four inches in length to the wing length due to extra lift.
Suggest make the plates 3/4 inch outside the complete shape of the wing end tip, both top and bottom. The idea is to catch the air that normally escapes off of the wing tip.
Note, this is not to be confused with the top wing tips you now see on most Boening jets. That is to reduce vortex, not increase lift. If you are concerned about the effectiveness of this,( I was), then set the plates up as bolt on to the last rib.
I promise you will never remove.
Good Luck,
08-10-2003, 04:54 AM
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ugghh
There is something inherently wrong about a twin Arf.. but hey there is something inherently wrong about arf's all together. lol.. guess i'm just a die hard builder.
PA
PA
08-10-2003, 02:58 PM
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Twin Arf's
viperred
I would agree that, if you have the time and skill, the kits are much better than most arf's. Problem is that there are very few kits or arf's for multi-engine planes.......and if I can be truthful, my skills are not up to par to cover a plane anywhere near as good as most arf's. Even when I bash a plane, you usually have to modify the structure to make sure it will stand up.
Wish I had the time to build more (OK, and Skills)
Good Luck and send pictures of your creations.
Twinman
I would agree that, if you have the time and skill, the kits are much better than most arf's. Problem is that there are very few kits or arf's for multi-engine planes.......and if I can be truthful, my skills are not up to par to cover a plane anywhere near as good as most arf's. Even when I bash a plane, you usually have to modify the structure to make sure it will stand up.
Wish I had the time to build more (OK, and Skills)
Good Luck and send pictures of your creations.
Twinman
08-10-2003, 03:31 PM
#14
Re: ugghh
Originally posted by viperred
There is something inherently wrong about a twin Arf.. but hey there is something inherently wrong about arf's all together. lol.. guess i'm just a die hard builder.
PA
There is something inherently wrong about a twin Arf.. but hey there is something inherently wrong about arf's all together. lol.. guess i'm just a die hard builder.
PA
Oh? You haven't? Hm.
Good luck,
Dave Olson
08-10-2003, 04:10 PM
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Re: Re: ugghh
okay Dave those comments seem a little over the top.. lol..You must have misconstrued what I was gitting at. I'm not such an expert builder by any means that I talk arf's down for that reason. Believe me, I don't frown upon Arf building really. It's not like i'd be at the field and go up to someone and say "hey ... ugly plane you got there" lol... I just think I can really see the true value in people that have the undying patience to build the kinds of twin's that are on rcwarbirds.com and similar sites. I like to think i follow in that mindset in that I don't mind if I spend more time on the ground building then flying. But that's just me, most people are the opposite. In which cases Arf's i guess are a great thing. But all the incredible aircraft take ingenuity and genius. I'll always admire that compared to the arf's out there.
I also think it's sad that there not alot of twins out there to build.. but hey.. were not atomaton's..designed to buy whatever is on the market... we have mind's.. and fast hands. There's lots of plans out there.. and lots of scale drawings/schematics... all kinds of ways to go about desiging and creating new and innovate planes. All kindsa kits to be modded too. I guess when I look at the kits out there I never think "well that's all there is". I suppose most of you don't either otherwise we all wouldn't flock here with are new and interesting ideas.
Cheers,
PA
I also think it's sad that there not alot of twins out there to build.. but hey.. were not atomaton's..designed to buy whatever is on the market... we have mind's.. and fast hands. There's lots of plans out there.. and lots of scale drawings/schematics... all kinds of ways to go about desiging and creating new and innovate planes. All kindsa kits to be modded too. I guess when I look at the kits out there I never think "well that's all there is". I suppose most of you don't either otherwise we all wouldn't flock here with are new and interesting ideas.
Cheers,
PA
Originally posted by Scar
Okay, Viperred, why don't you post pictures & plans of a dozen or so of the kits you've designed & built? And maybe some of the propellors you've carved, and while you're at it, the radios you've designed & built. Shoot, post some pictures of the engines you've machined & made yourself, too, and maybe shoes & shirts & refrigerators....
Oh? You haven't? Hm.
Good luck,
Dave Olson
Okay, Viperred, why don't you post pictures & plans of a dozen or so of the kits you've designed & built? And maybe some of the propellors you've carved, and while you're at it, the radios you've designed & built. Shoot, post some pictures of the engines you've machined & made yourself, too, and maybe shoes & shirts & refrigerators....
Oh? You haven't? Hm.
Good luck,
Dave Olson
08-10-2003, 04:36 PM
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Another country heard from...
I too am an (almost) inveterate builder. Not just a kit builder, not just a plan builder, and not just a scratch builder. And I have been known to bash kits, plans, and ARFs. Regardless, a "Modeler" builds his own airplanes.
An "R/C flier" will assemble ARFs, or even have someone else prepare his planes. He doesn't build. But he still has a useful place in the hobby. He might even becone a modeller.
I currently have four ARFs flying; an old Hobbico "Diablo" (K&B 61), an "UltraSicck 120" (Saito 120) a Modeltech "Magic" (OS 46 XL)and a Global "RCM 40" (Magnum XLS 40). And I am tempted by the recently announced "UltraStick 120 Lite."
But I have far more that are not ARFs.
Cost is not a factor. RTF planes, limiting them to decent rc planes, can be had for $300. Or my US 120 - replacement cost approximately $1200. And they can reach costs in the stratosphere.It all comes down to one thing - convenience.
And this ensures that ARFs will be with us from now on.
Bill.
An "R/C flier" will assemble ARFs, or even have someone else prepare his planes. He doesn't build. But he still has a useful place in the hobby. He might even becone a modeller.
I currently have four ARFs flying; an old Hobbico "Diablo" (K&B 61), an "UltraSicck 120" (Saito 120) a Modeltech "Magic" (OS 46 XL)and a Global "RCM 40" (Magnum XLS 40). And I am tempted by the recently announced "UltraStick 120 Lite."
But I have far more that are not ARFs.
Cost is not a factor. RTF planes, limiting them to decent rc planes, can be had for $300. Or my US 120 - replacement cost approximately $1200. And they can reach costs in the stratosphere.It all comes down to one thing - convenience.
And this ensures that ARFs will be with us from now on.
Bill.
08-10-2003, 04:43 PM
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Re: Another country heard from...
"Modeler"[/b] builds his own airplanes."
I totally agree with that.... i've always been a modeler. Heck even if your building an ARF doesn't mean you can't put your own personal spin, paintjob, mod, extra something, etc. on it. :-)
I think also the difference in the two (enthusiasts) is that most RC Fliers feel like they can't dedicate the room to building a kit aircraft. While most modelers/kit builders feel like they could never give up there reserved building workspace.
PA
I totally agree with that.... i've always been a modeler. Heck even if your building an ARF doesn't mean you can't put your own personal spin, paintjob, mod, extra something, etc. on it. :-)
I think also the difference in the two (enthusiasts) is that most RC Fliers feel like they can't dedicate the room to building a kit aircraft. While most modelers/kit builders feel like they could never give up there reserved building workspace.
PA
08-10-2003, 04:50 PM
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Arf's
Viperred
Forget the radios, props ect. Yes, those comments are over the top and unnecessary.
When you build the unavailable such as four engine monsters or one of hundred's of multi's for which there is no such thing as an arf, them let us all drool at your skills. Check the German bombers for six engines and one Japanese bomber that never flew with six engines......find that in an arf!!
Please send pictures of your creations. I for one will be the first to drool. That is what makes this hobby fun for all.
Good Luck,
Forget the radios, props ect. Yes, those comments are over the top and unnecessary.
When you build the unavailable such as four engine monsters or one of hundred's of multi's for which there is no such thing as an arf, them let us all drool at your skills. Check the German bombers for six engines and one Japanese bomber that never flew with six engines......find that in an arf!!
Please send pictures of your creations. I for one will be the first to drool. That is what makes this hobby fun for all.
Good Luck,
08-10-2003, 04:52 PM
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why doesn;t anyone make a twin ARF plane?
viperred:
Disagree only on one point. It is impossilbe for the end user to build an ARF. The building is done before he buys it. He merely assembles the parts.
Like a plastic model - you can decorate the hell out of it, but construction? All you can do is assembly.
Bill.
Disagree only on one point. It is impossilbe for the end user to build an ARF. The building is done before he buys it. He merely assembles the parts.
Like a plastic model - you can decorate the hell out of it, but construction? All you can do is assembly.
Bill.
08-10-2003, 05:47 PM
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Re: Arf's
I don't think i have to post pictures of everything i built to prove there might be more merit and more creativity in kit building and scratch building.... just look around here.. this place is full of creative kits and scratch builds. I prove my point easily. If money is no object would a flier rather have a custom scratch build beautiful airplane, or a brand new assembled arf. That's a no brainer lol...
PA
PA
Originally posted by twinman
Viperred
Forget the radios, props ect. Yes, those comments are over the top and unnecessary.
When you build the unavailable such as four engine monsters or one of hundred's of multi's for which there is no such thing as an arf, them let us all drool at your skills. Check the German bombers for six engines and one Japanese bomber that never flew with six engines......find that in an arf!!
Please send pictures of your creations. I for one will be the first to drool. That is what makes this hobby fun for all.
Good Luck,
Viperred
Forget the radios, props ect. Yes, those comments are over the top and unnecessary.
When you build the unavailable such as four engine monsters or one of hundred's of multi's for which there is no such thing as an arf, them let us all drool at your skills. Check the German bombers for six engines and one Japanese bomber that never flew with six engines......find that in an arf!!
Please send pictures of your creations. I for one will be the first to drool. That is what makes this hobby fun for all.
Good Luck,
08-10-2003, 06:42 PM
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Nice Twin ARF
I know a guy who does excellent work and offers an ARF Twin Otter. You can check it out at the below link.
http://www.rtmodels.com/Twin_Otter_ARF.htm
http://www.rtmodels.com/Twin_Otter_ARF.htm
08-11-2003, 02:18 AM
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why doesn;t anyone make a twin ARF plane?
oohh sorry about that.... didn't mean to get defensive. ;-) i'll have some kewl stuff up here shortly to show yah! 
Cheers, and thanks,
PA
Cheers, and thanks,
PA
