build light

I have had a couple of the Scientific "hollow log" models in my youth. My first was a real winner for me. It was the Zig Zag (kit 65) and my first cox engine a shiny Golden Bee!
I painted her just like box cover. First the sanding sealer, then white ( Aerogloss of course) Then I masked her off and finished her with the Fokker red. The only thing I didn't do was put the decals on.
I actually did the paint correctly and it must have had 3 coats of sealer (sanding between coats of course) and 6 coats of white and finally three coats of red. I liked to have died in anticipation of all the coats drying and the sanding between but I was rewarded with a plane that looked manufactured of plastic. I had never before put such real work into a hobby project before. Let me tell you it was really shiny!

Ambroid glue was used for assembly. This thing was nearly indestructable! I cannot tell you how many flights I had on it. I learned to fly C/L on this plane.
I did wind up making one change to it. I added about 3/4" to the elevator as soon as I learned to fly half way decent. It just didn't want to turn well at first.

I bet I had over 200 flights on it before I broke the wing off it. Its first catastrophic failure. snapped the rudder about half a dozen times and the elevator maybe 4 times. She was one tough bird.

I would like to have another! I guess they are long gone by now. Actyually I would like to have several others. They made so many and I only had so much money. Besides "How many planes do you need?
"I guess you'll need engines for those as well!"

Where can I find a kit or better yet the dimensions? It would be so easy to make one from scratch. or a scan of the plans. Did it even have plans? All the parts were preshaped and cut to size. The wing was simply 1/8" X 3" X 18" plank.

Anyone else have fun with one of these or similar?

Robert

Lou Crane

Robert,

Take a look at some of the CL Stunt websites, like Stuka Stunt:

www.clstunt.com/

or Stunthanger:

www.stunthanger/smf/

Scroll down the posts and you're sure to find something about Walt Musciano, or hollow log models. There's been a recent buzz of interest in Walt's Scientific hollow log models, and at least one meet, solely for them, scheduled. Even if you have no interest in entering a competition, that should be a deep source of information and help! (Besides, to be kind, what kind of defined rules could most of the 'logs compete in? Better that others who appreciate, and remember, compare notes and swap stories - some true, no?)

From the Stuka Stunt address above, you may have to click your way to the forum. Guests, I believe, can read posts, but not post to, either Stuka Stunt or Stunthanger.

I have a few plans for Scientific models - not the Zig Zag, I don't think. If nothing else lights your lamp, get back to me and I can snail copies of those for you.

Oh, yes... I spent a few years in Omaha a while back. So, this time of year I encourage you to keep warm!!!

\BEST\LOU

Bass1

I remember painting/ finishing my first planes with nothing but colored dope. Lil' Jumping Beans, Ranger 30s and Veco Barnstormers They looked horrible but flew OK. Then one day a classmate of mine ( 6th grade 1963) brought over a just completed .049 powered Wildcat (Sterling or Scientific?) that was flawless and "shiny" as hell. I couldn't believe the finish on his model and it truly looked like "plastic"! That's when I learned about sandpaper and CLEAR dope. Turns out his dad was an A&P mechanic and had access to all the free clear dope and sandpaper you could ask for.

CLpilot

My Feedback: (1)

Try this site.

http://www.blackhawkmodels.com/


Here'a a picture of my Golden Hawk and Pitts Special. Both from Black Hawk Models.

Jay

gcb

Walt Musciano is still alive and through this year attended most of the contests held in his honor. I believe this was the last year for that due to his age and health.

AFAIK, he still sells copies of his plans. Can you imagine how it would feel to find that people are still enjoying airplanes you designed half a century ago?

Here is an excerpt from an old posting with contact information. I believe it is still good:

Anyone wanting to "pay homage" to Walter himself can write him at

WALT MUSCIANO
133A Dell Glen
Lodi, N.J. 07644

Matter of fact, anyone wanting a catalog of Walt's Scientific Plans can send him a few dollars, please consider this, as he could certainly use it!!!
I got the whole package from Walt following conversation with Jimmy Dodson in South Carolina: Jimmy said to contact Walt, and I did.
Please drop Walt a line, fellows. He would be tickled.
Mike in Atwater,
'When I fly, the plane gets nervous'

Walt charges $5.00 per plan and that includes shipping. I am talking about his hollow log kits. The other kits prices vary from $5 to $10 to $15. Most of the others are in the $8 and $10 range. He will send you a multi-page listing of his kits.

BTW, here are a couple of the "Little Bipes". The Little Bipe was my first CL model airplane.

George

Phlip

I had the Piper Tri-Pacer as a teen-ager. Had three "Streamline" wheels on the music wire landing gear. Flew it off of a paved circle with a Babe-Bee for power. With a 5.25-4 prop on backwards, on about 20' lines, you could do touch-and-goes and even hover it. It was a blast. With the prop on forwards, it went fast level, but when you tried to manouver, it just plowed the air.

Phil

build light

Thanks for the input and info guys!

Actually before I made the first post I did do a search for "scientific logs" and dug up this info.

one thing I learned was that Walt Musciano designed many of these planes. All these years I had not known this. I also saw the contest and the wonderful pics including my Zig Zag!

Unfortunately The Zig Zag (kit 65) and the P-40 Warthawk (kit 92) with the built up 21" span wing and the Stka Dive Bomber (kit 60) are not among those offered. These are the 3 I had as a youth.

And then there are the others I yearned for but never had. None of these are offered.

The Sizzlin' Liz ( kit 144) Mustang featured a built up body and wing. I guess you could not call it a log but it was one that I wanted and never had. There is one on $bay right now and it will Most likely go to a kit collector.
I am not a collector in the same sense they are. I want to build one! Those prices are just way too high for my budget.

I want to scratch build My own. They are so simple. All I would need are a few dimensions for the fuse and I could cobble the rest. Especially the Zig Zag. Wing was 1/8"X 3"X 18" What could be easier? The stab about 5"X 1"X 1/16" The stab was 5"X 3/4"X 1/16"
I just need a little help in the right Direction.

Others I wanted were the other two P-40s.
The P-40 Flying Tiger (kit 59)
and the Red Tiger P-40 (kit 149)
Don't forget the Little Mustang (kit 18)
the Kingpin (kit 71)
and last but not least the Zipper (kit 142)

As long as they won't cost an arm and a leg I would be also willing to try any of the other kits!

Robert

Clean

I don't know about the ones you were looking at, but that autogyron under new items on the Blackhawk page is purty cute. Also, order from Virginiahobbysport.com , it's a wee bit cheaper but you can get a Fox, McCoy or Cox engine from them at the same time.

build light

Thanks Clean, Virginiahobbysport.com Is a treasure trove. BTW, Anyone have a pic of the Fox .049? I have no idea what one looks like.
I simply Gotta have one or two of those Gilberts! I don't care if they run or not they just would look so cool sitting on the nose of an older plane!
Virginia Hobby has a better selection of Walt's kits. They do have the Zig Zag but it sure looks different from the one I had.
They also have another plane that I believe is on my list. It looks like the kit 59 P-40 Flying Tiger but the finished model shown has no cowl. I'm sorry but the cowl is simply a must have! Could be you have to make one yourself from the plan. If there is a pattern for it...

The F82 Twin Mustang is another I would have liked to have. Sadly I do not see it on either site for sale.

On the plus side, there are some I liked that I never knew of. The DR-1 for one. I also really like the Thunderbird biplane and the Stinson Reliant. I plan to, own one of those or all three in the near future.

gcb, That is some really good news to hear about Walt. I will get in touch with him and see what I can do.

Robert

50+AirYears

That ad sure grought back memories. The Stuka really showed me the difference in power between the Golden Bee and the Tee Dee 049s.
I still have a flyable Big Otto, with a Black Widow, and as far as logs go, I still have a NIB Monarch Vitamin 1/2 A. Not a Scientific, but still a log. No plastic except for a piece of clear plastic for the windscreen, and the cowl is a die cut piece of a fiberboard material, almost like a gasket material.
Sig sells, or used to sell, an airfoiled balsa sheet for hand launched gliders that should be perfect for scratching these old beauties.

build light

I myself am all in favor of trying to get some interest in scratching some of these. AS I mentioned before I have no interest in collecting the boxes Just gimme some plans watch me make do!

Anyone wants to jump in on scratching some of these logs, then jump!

Robert

gcb

Robert,

I think most of the old Scientific kits had 3/16" or 1/4" wings that had been partially sanded to an airfoil shape. Later ones were flat but thick. Eventually 1/8" thick wings were used, probably as a further cost reduction to be competitive.

As an example, my Little Bipe plans show a Babe Bee engine and 1/8" wings. The first Little Bipe had thicker wings and showed a OK Cub (which is .049). There was no Babe Bee at that time.

I remember drilling holes in the firewall for my Space Bug Junior intake.

Here is a Fox FAI .049. I do not have the standard .049. Also here is a Gilbert .07 for those who have never seen them.

George

Bass1

Very Cool thread!!

build light

Yes I am now sure my wing was a 3/16 shaped wing not 1/8"

Yes 50+AirYears, you were right about your hunch! Sig still carries the shaped sheets!

SIGB111 BALSA 3/16 X 3 X 36 AF SHEETS EACH $2.39
SIGB112 BALSA 1/4 X 3 X 36 AF SHEETS EACH $2.79
SIGB113 BALSA 1/4 X 4 X 36 AF SHEETS EACH $3.69

Bass1, welcome aboard! Tell all your friends! We are going to try and get a party started!
Oh! By the way, there is theme music behind this movement. It is the bass line for the Peter Gunn Theme! Heh!

Robert

NorfolkSouthern

Well, I remember seeing some Scientific kits now, but haven't even thought of them in decades. How long has that company been out of business? I'm thinking it was back in the 1970s, because I don't even recall seeing one available after 1978, if not before that. I saw the boxes, but I never purchased one. I think that may have been because of the price, but I'm not sure. I do know that I had limited means during my childhood, so that's probably most likely it. Is anybody making the kits now? If so, who?

NorfolkSouthern

build light

NorfolkSouthern, Welcome to our little group!

Yes, http://www.blackhawkmodels.com/ is making a significant number of these kits.

http://virginiahobbysport.com/index.htm Also carries them and shows a greater selection!

Robert

gcb

Robert,

IMHO the tapered sheets are a lot more expensive and still will not get you where you want to be. Remember that they have a constant taper so you will have to get the 1/4" sheet to have 3/16" at the mid point and you still have to taper the front half. I think most folks use standard sheet and taper the last 1.5"-2" and round off the LE. A razor plane or a #26 X-acto and some sandpaper will do the trick.

For my later version Little Bipes (with 1/8" wings) I rounded the LE and tapered about an inch of the TE.

My first Little Bipe, with the thicker wings, was crashed to death back in the late fifties, but I still have that OK Cub with its metal (FF) tank.

George

gcb

As several responses have mentioned, there were other "hollow logs" than the ones designed by Walt Musciano and kitted by Scientific. If you are building one for competition in the Musciano contests it MUST be one of Walts Scientific designs.

I think all of the Musciano contests follow the rules created by the Northern Virginia Control Line (NVCL) club. Their web site has the rules for the events, a list of eligible designs, and a list of eligible engines.

They also have some great pictures of the event.

George

Edit: Here's the link... http://www.northernvirginiacontrolline.org/

Devilduck

Ok, I must be a greenhorn on this topic. What is hollow log? i presume a type of construction techinque?

i know of the standard built up fuselage and wing etc etc?

They, the planes, do have some charm to them.

Thanks
DevilDuck

heli_Rod

I only had one "hollowed log" and that was when I was a just a kid, maybe 10 years old. I remember saving my $.25 a week allowance to get enough money to buy the kit. It was the Cessna 182. I still had a Cox Baby Bee engine off my old Cox Super Cub plastic control line that had previously met it demise. All I had to work with was elmer's white glue, a double edged razor blade, and a single sheet of sand paper. It wasn't pretty, but it flew. I was proud that I even got it to fly at all. I had no help, so it was a learning experience I'll never forget.

"Hollowed logs"?.....Yeah, but they have a special place in my modeling career![sm=regular_smile.gif]

Rod

build light

Devilduck, unlike most model airplane kits these had a fuselage ( body) of solid balsa wood about 1 1/4" X 2" X 8" which is quite a chunk of balsa! This was then hollowed out by machine from the factory on bottom side with slot about 3/4" wide by about 4" long hence the moniker "hollow log"

A kit typically would loook much like this.

Robert

Jamtx

My Feedback: (2)

Have a look here http://www.sshobbies.com/1coliki.html

build light

Thank you shot7 for pointing out another supplier of the Blackhawk kits ! Lots of great pics showing the models in color.

I would like to point out that I was trying to generate some intrerest in uncovering some of the kits not offered by Blackhawk and building these from scratch.

Would you happen to have plans from one ( or more he inquires hopefully) of these old kits you could share? Just the measurments would be great.

Personally I would like to get hold of some of the old Scientific kits that had built up fuselages as well. Like the Sizzlin' Liz and the Zipper.

Robert

Jamtx

My Feedback: (2)

Sorry, don't have any. If you like to scratch build try this.

http://uk.geocities.com/[email protected]/

Ask at these places also.

http://www.clstunt.com/htdocs/dc/dcboard.php

http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php

James

gcb

DevilDuck,

I believe interest in these old planes comes from many of us building them as our first few models. I believe my favorite ones built as a kid were Little Devil and Little Mustang. They were simple and somewhat fool proof. I barely sanded the mill marks off the balsa and applied a hasty (crappy) paint job. Never considered further hollowing the fuselage "log".

Today, most guys sand and hollow for maximum performance.

My first ever CL airplane was a Little Bipe with OK Cub engine, but I did not build it...traded my BB gun for it.

The NVCL club site above lists plans available from Walt Musciano and Jim Dodson, and provides the contact information.

George