Albatross

My Feedback: (7)

How much deflection (in degrees if possible) would you recommend for a Lanier CAP 232 80 inch to perform 3D?
I know that is more the elevator and ruder throws play a more important roll than the aileron throw. Light weight and a lots of power count as well.
Short of that aspects, how important is the aileron to perform 3D?

EXCAP232

My Feedback: (12)

Elevator and rudder 45% both directions.

Expo at 50% is what I use however a fellow pilot runs 70% and one TOC pilot mentioned running 90% on the rudder. These will be set to your own likings and a little experimentation is necessary with each different plane along with the correct CG location.

EXCAP232

OnTheEdge

Aileron throw is important to 3D but it does not require as much throw as the rudder and elevator. I have about 35 degrees in my plane but I'm not familiar with the Lanier Cap.

A more important measurement is the cord of the aileron and how far in it goes to the fuse. In other words, a wing with a huge control surface at 20 degrees will work better at 3D than a small surface at 35 degrees. Getting the aileron close to the fuse helps with hovering as you can use prop blast to stop some of the torque of the motor so the plane stops spinning.

You might want to try to move your post to the 3D section instead of the IMAC section as you'll have a better shot at someone responding with your same plane. Also, spell out "lanier Cap 232 80" in your title and you can practically guarentee that everyone who owns one of those will stop to look at your post.

Best of luck.............Mark

Albatross

My Feedback: (7)

OnTheEdge:
I think is a good suggestion. I modified the title.

As a mater of fact I working on the beveling of the aileron leading edge. The manufacture's instructions call for +/- 3/4 inch (@ middest point of ailerons).
Right now the same deflection goes +/- 1 1/4 which makes around 30 degrees.

I did not modify the size of the ailerons (!). I cut out the ailerons as per the kit instructions. The innermost point of the aileron is close to the root wing, however I don't think that will be enough to stop the airplane rotation during the torque roll. I'll put this modification on my next project ...

By the way, I am going to start the tail construction, if anyone else out there have any suggestions, please let me know (enlarge elevator surface? ruder?, any suggestion for throws in this section?, etc)

Thanks

capthis

My Feedback: (67)

I have the lanier cap, and I am not sure how much throw I have on ailerons but it will roll very fast. I have long 3-D arms on my servos so i have lots of throw. I doube beveled my elevator hinge line for about 60 degrees of throw. My rudder has all I can get and I wish now that I would have run tristock on the trailing edge of my rudder post so it would be double beveled also. I still get at leats 45 or 50 degrees but I just needs a little more. It will Knife edge loop but the bottom is ugly as I start to run out of rudder. My plane wieghs 16.5 pounds with a bme 50 for power. It is an unlimited airplane. I cut quite a bit of wood out of mine to keep the weight down. If you plan on running gas it is real easy to get this plane up around 18 pounds. While it will fly like this I don't think it would be much fun. Mine lands slow and will do any 3-d manuver, but that is because it is fairly light. Hope this helps its a great plane

Albatross

My Feedback: (7)

capthis:

Thanks for the advices ( mainly for the ones proposed on the tail group). As we know the tail is key factor for a good 3D . I learned in this forum that this airplane might be built on the heavy side if you don't pay attention. In my effort to reduce weight I am using contest balsa grade. Although is more expensive, I think that will certainly help me to keep weight down.

About the ailerons, you are right, they are big and probably the additional beveling that I put may never be need it, however is already there for any potential use.

OnTheEdge

While you are at it, if possible weigh your balsa. Keep the heavier stronger stuff for the wings and use the medium weight for the tail surfaces and the leightest stuff for the turtle decking. This way you are not building a tail heavy plane from the onset, so you'll be able to balance it out with equipment rather than having to add lead to the nose.

Good luck.....let us see pictures when you're all done!

.....Mark

Albatross

My Feedback: (7)

Absolutely!

The contest balsa was already used on the wing panels. I reinforced the panels applying CF strips. Although the kit instructions do not call for any reinforcement I decided that it might not be a bad idea. You can feel that ragility when you work with this kind of material (as opose to the balsa stock sheets).

I am also experiment with CF panels to substitute the 1/4 liteply wood motor box pieces. You can see some pics of the duplicated
formers in:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...74&forumid=206

Hopefuly will save more weight here on this area..

Red7fifty

My Feedback: (73)

Albatross,
I bought a 3D video from an ad in the back of a Model Avation magazine. It features flying by Jason Shulman, and he discusses 3D set up for a 40% Extra. From memory, (I don't feel like watching it at the moment) I think he recomends something in the 20-30 degree range for ailerons. Rudder and Elevator 40 to 45 or so. He also says that your elevator area should be about 50 to 60% vs the stab area of 40 or 50%.

Capthis,
I wonder if your knife edge loops could be improved by moving the C.G. back. In the same video I spoke about , Defying the Limits vol 1 with Jason Shulman, he moves his C.G. back quite a bit, but remember, too much and it might not fly anymore.

To all others, this video is worth the 20 something bucks I paid, it goes over a bunch of stuff, including instruction and demos, and you'll love the ending, but I don't want to ruin it for you. I don't know where the order info is, but the cover of the video says its produced by Robin's View Productions 610-746-0106.
It also says it is taped and directed by Mike Hurley, the guy doing the 1/3 scale Extra article in the Model Aviation.

capthis

My Feedback: (67)

My airplane already has a pretty aft cg. I just need a little more throw out of my rudder. but thanks for the advice.

Albatross

My Feedback: (7)

Thanks for the information. Seems that make a lot of sense. I have not measured that area stab/elevator of this kit yet.
Capthis made a good point referring to the 3D capabilities of this airplane, so, I assume that no further modification would be needed on the horizontal stabs and ruder area (although the seem to be to me kind of small) .
Capthis: by the way, what kind of servos would you recommend on each control surface for this airpane?

capthis

My Feedback: (67)

I am cheap, so I have hitec 605's on the ailerons and the elevators. They work pretty well. I have a 700 on the rudder, which is a big 1/4 scale servo. While these servos work ok, on my new cap I am going with the hitec digitals. Of course it is a little bigger at 1/3 scale! The main complaint I have with the 605's is when you put long servo arms on the they don't center very well. You can notice this if you are trying to fly "pattern" Seems like your trim is always changine just a little, not much, and certainly not enough to concern me for "sunday flying" but if I were competing I would go with better servos. Also the elevators and ailerons are big enough for this plane. The rudder I might make bigger and the next one I build I will at least double the size of the counter balance. H9's 80inch and the 1/3 scale have huge counter balances ont their caps.