lewdfinger

I'm well into framing my first Carden kit - a 35% Edge. I consider myself a smart guy and a decent builder. I read stuff, I ask people, I'm college-educated, and I'm pretty darn macho when it comes to airplanes. I have Hudson's and Kristensen's building sites memorized. I even built myself a kick-butt building table and a vacuum bagger.

Maybe it's the time of year, my age (just turned 40), or the mystique that surrounds Carden airplanes, but I have been through an emotional few months. I feel compelled to share what I've learned so far. It's part rant, part tribute, part not being able to sleep, so admins please move this to whatever forum you feel appropriate. Dennis and Caroline, if you are reading this - God Bless You.

The learning points are in roughly chronological (buildological, if you will) order. If you have come to these revelations on your own, please bear with me for we are brothers.
[ul][*]1. The notched-out part of the rudder skin goes toward the leading edge of the foam core, like where you will cut off the excess from the fin bottom.[*]2. The leading edge is the bigger, rounder edge.[*]3. You can insert missing balsa skin on an area of foam but it takes a lot of tedious sanding and it doesn't look very good.[*]4. It is difficult to see if your bagged core and skins are aligned perfectly in the shucks, once everything is in the bag.[*]5. Once you pull vacuum, you don't need to put much weight on the shucks.[*]6. If you are not yet keen to points #4 and #5 it is quite likely that the rudder's trailing edge will not be straight.[*]7. Carden's office hours are 9am to 5pm Monday to Friday. (Eastern Standard Time). Phone 423-295-2295[*]8. Caroline answers the phone and triages your call with the utmost professionalism. (Although I have this nagging mental image of her shaking her head and laughing as she gives the phone to Dennis).[*]9. Dennis would make an excellent crisis counsellor.[*]10. Don't try to vacuum bag a complex part when you are supposed to pick up your daughter from soccer in 30 minutes[*]11. If you take advantage of the unseasonably warm weather to bag a wing in your garage, don't place the vacuum pump right where the roof melt drips through the ceiling.[*]12. Upon your discovery of a warped wing, only vent your anger with the stomps and screams of a rabid three-year-old if you are certain that no one is in the house.[*]13. 10-year-olds can be quite forgiving of aberrent parental behavior if time is taken to apologize and explain the behavior in its proper context.[*]14. 10-year-olds are tattletales.[*]15. Caroline's demeanor on the telephone is sympathetic and professional even with repeated calls (mental image now of her making that 'kookoo' sign - knowing glance to Dennis)[*]16. Dennis and Caroline are the most knowledgeable, upstanding and helpful businesspeople on the planet.[*]17. Don't destroy the warped wing in a fit of rage, because it might just be OK.[*]18. It's easy for a newb to get psyched out by the rhetoric of internet 'experts' who apparently always build everything perfect[*]19. Trying to make everything very very straight and level and clean-looking may bring out an unwelcome perfectionistic tendency in one's personality.[*]20. Spouses have a habit of pointing out one's unwelcome tendencies, mostly when you just need sympathy.[*]21. Screaming and cursing in front of your child decreases spousal sympathy.[*]22. Aileron cord length is measured perpendicular to the hinge line.[*]23. The root and tip of the wing are not perpendicular to the hinge line.[*]24. An aileron can be enlarged to its proper cord length after it is cut by adding a 1/8" strip of balsa to the leading edge before beveling[*]25. If something looks almost perfect, stop sanding.[*]26. Fathers-in-law are great at finding sanding marks and dents on your best pieces.[*]27. When you finish a piece and it looks like something on Bob's or Ivan's site, it feels pretty good.
[/ul]

So you have to be nuts to ask if Carden's kits are worth the money. Just look at what I've learned - and I'm not even finished building it.

I'm sure we've all learned some life lessons from building airplanes. Please feel free to add to the list.

Keith Drader
Calgary AB

rcplanefan

My Feedback: (2)

Awesome post, lewdfinger! Stick with it - the results will be worth it.

Ken

zzw26n

My Feedback: (45)

Keith,

I found that to be a great read, thanks !! I have yet to start my Carden, but I now have a different appreciation for what I'm about to get into. Needless to say, it's the LITTLE things that always seem to get us.


regards, Ward

Kevgofly

My Feedback: (2)

Ahhh, the memories!, grat post very entertaining. Have ou shaped your leading edges for the wing yet? If not, I'll stay tuned, should be fun!

Kev

P.S. I'm kidding, it's really not that bad.

PTS

My Feedback: (153)

I just received my Carden 40% Extra 260. I have not started my build yet but I am starting to feel the emotion(s). As a well known reputable builder told me "Welcome to the Perfectionist/Picky Builder Club". That releived me because I am also very picky when it come to planes as constantly reminded by my friends. I have also studied in detail Aero Protects, Kristensen, and the threads from others on RCU. If you dont mind, who is Mr. Hudson? Do you have a link to that build. The funny thing is that when you mention to someone that your a building a Carden have you noticed the moment of silence and then the AH?

Great Thread!!!

Thanks,

Perry

ibow24

My Feedback: (10)

Also notice that aren't many pictures of hacked up Carden builds on here. That would make us all feel normal.
Nope every picture looks like it's a piece of fine furniture Norm in buidling in his New Yankee Workshop.
"Today folks we'll be building this big Carden Yak. Now I'm not sure what a Yak is but just look at this lovely grain.
However I think we'll make our Yak from some of this 2,000 year old Cherry, Oak and Walnut I have in the shop.
Stay with us here on the New Yankee Workshop"

Hell, I could build the Spruce Goose if I had all the tools Norm has !!

Just once I want to see a post that says "Man, look how bad I screwed up my Carden"

Good luck Keith, They are great kits. I think it's the cost and the attention to detail Dennis puts in the kit that brings out the perfectionist attitude in us all.
It will be worth it.

Steve

lewdfinger

Bob Hudson hosts the [link=http://www.edge540.com]Edge building site[/link] which is linked from Carden's web site. He and Ivan are buds.
Well I must say that prior to this I thought I was pretty normal. I honestly have never flipped out like that before. I guess part of my choosing a Carden kit was the chance to demonstrate my modeling machismo, and to challenge myself, and yeah, impress my buddies. When I thought I'd ruined a foam core it was just too much. These forums are therapeutic (and cheaper than a psychiatrist), plus Dennis was very cool.

The funny thing to me now is the look on my wife's face when she overhears me mention it. You know, the eyelids flicker a couple of times and the jaw clenches a little...

ibow24

My Feedback: (10)

Of course you did tell you wife that the Carden kit was $79.99 right?

lewdfinger

I'm being pretty hard on the old girl, just to be funny. She's actually been great - never hassled me once about my airplanes.

OnTheEdge

Great thread, I love it! Don't feel bad Keith, on my first foam core wing I sheeted it on a section of my basement floor. Once dried I held a metal yard stick to the 33% wing panel to find about a 1/4" bow in the middle. (Dumb ass me din't think to double check the floor with the same rule BEFORE sheeting [:@] Heck, it's cement.....the guys who poured it were to make it level.......right? ) I weighted the wing in a cantilever position and place several pounds of weight on the wing tip flexng it a good inch or so hoping to "bend" it back. After about three weeks, I removed the weight and boing........right back where it was. Cost me about $110 bucks (The guys at Aeroworks don't discount replacement wing kits for stupid mistakes) and a couple days worth of work.

Anyone need a sheeted right wing panel for a 33% Edge 540T.........slightly irregular......

.........Mark

Flyin Woodbutcher

My Feedback: (3)

28 everywhere you use pro-bond type glues while sanding the balsa disapers and the pro-bond ridge is still there.[:@] My next two Cardens only will use old fashion wood glue. The drying time is a lot less than sanding an filling a concrete ridge.

Kent

OnTheEdge

Just curious, did you edge glue the sheets before sheeting or tape them? Also, what's "28"

Ricmussman

My Feedback: (24)

If you are using Probond/Gorilla glue and not vacum bagging than there is no need to edge glue your sheeting. Just finished my panels and the glue foamed right through all seams and sands perfectly smooth. The first time I glues foam wings I CA'd the edges and they never sanded smooth. From what I understand when bagging wings don't use poly glue it doesn't foam cause there is no air to activate the foaming.

jmiracle

My Feedback: (9)

Even if you vac-bag, there's no need to edge-glue the balsa when using pro-bond. The glue foams up into the seams of the wood while in the vac-bag just as it does when applied only with weight. Poly glue doesn't need air to cure/foam...it needs water. A light mist of water on the cores before placing them in the vac-bag and I've got more foaming action than I really care to deal with.

The skins come out of the bag smooth as silk. I rarely need to do anything more than finish-sand, and I've never had a problem with seams showing.

ibow24

My Feedback: (10)

I use the Poly glue but still haven't had to guts to try it without first edge gluing all the sheets.
I use Sigbond (wood glue) to edge glue the sheets. It sands pretty nice. I just make sure when I make up the skins I cut them so there is 2 tops/2 bottoms etc (instead of making them all the same). That way the side the got the glue and sanding wiped off when making the skins goes against the foam core and finished side has no or very little glue on the seam.

maybe next time I'll try it without edge gluing. Seems like I'm the only one left still edge gluing the sheets.

How does not gluing work our on the very round top decks etc??
I guess as long as they are taped well it shouldn't be a problem?

thanks
Steve

lewdfinger

I didn't even mist or wet the cores and it seems to work fine. I edge-glued the sheets with aliphatic glue and sanded both sides. Didn't foam much (quite dry here) but sure sticks well, even with a very thin coat.

KD

jmiracle

My Feedback: (9)

Steve,

I did not edge-glue the sheeting for the turtle deck on my Cuda and it glued up very nicely. The radius at the back of the turtle deck and on the edges of the bottom deck are so tight I did have a little bit of cracking once vacuum was pulled. It was very minor though and some light sanding took care of it.

If I was to do it again, I would mist the outside of the wood to help it flex a little more.

OnTheEdge

With poly glue it's important to use some moisture as thats what cause it to cure and expand in to the foam cells, wood fibers and up into the seems between the sheets.

The reason I asked Kent about it I've never heard of probond pushing into the seems so much that it was hard to sand. Usually the results are like Jmiracle states with perfect skins almost ready to cover. Maybe Kent had larger then usual gaps between the sheets from the sheets not being true-edged or something.

ibow24

My Feedback: (10)

Jason,
I had problems with cracks in the bottom deck of my Cuda. I usually wet the skins but the skin was very light. I thought it could take the bend without wetting. Wrong.
it cracked pretty bad. I just cut some strips of 1/16 sheet and edge glued it into the crack and then sanded. You can't even the see where it was cracked.

Next kit I'm going to look into vacum bagging the skins. Something I have never done or even seen done except on here.

Steve

Flyin Woodbutcher

My Feedback: (3)

The place I hated poly was the leading and trailing edges on the wings , stabs and rudder. As for the wing sheeting I use West System epoxy and vac bag. The wing skins are perfect but I snatched all the covering off the tops of the wings and spent another 20 hrs sanding and filling that little faint seam at the front and rear of the wing. The covering shows every little seam that the critics are looking for. I never had any problem with the sanding of good old Elmers glue. I'll see if I can get some pics of the wings.

My wing sheeting was edge trued and perfect.[&:]

Kent

OnTheEdge

Ahh, gotcha. Yep, that can certainly leave a lot of stuff to sand.

Flyin Woodbutcher

My Feedback: (3)

I took a few pics, the wings turned out ok I think.

OnTheEdge

Very nice, and by the shine I'd guess it's Monokote?

Flyin Woodbutcher

My Feedback: (3)

yup

budgetdude

My Feedback: (6)

Do you have to vac bag or can you just put alot of weight on the cores?