378

My Feedback: (4)

Will someone make a good, affordable nitro powered short course truck?! Some of us crazies actually like nitro. We still run it. We prefer it. Yet we can't have a good, affordable S/C truck. We can only choose between the startlingly expensive yet rock solid AE SC8, kinda eh and still overpriced Slayer, or a hard-to-get-parts-for Ofna Hyper10-SC. So please give us a short course truck we can piss the neighbors off with!

proanti1

My Feedback: (2)

Affordable? Nitro?

HAHA!

Someone here makes a chassis to convert an rc10gt to SC... and the old GT's are dime-a-dozen.

378

My Feedback: (4)

....sigh.


An affordable nitro S/C in 1/10 scale would run from 250 or so for 2WD to about 350 for a high end 4WD. There's no reason the price should jump so far from the electrics to the three nitro ones currently available. The Slayer is 375 and the SC8 is 500. The Hyper 10-SC is 260 but it doesn't come with an engine or radio, so by the time you have it ready to go it's about halfway between the Slayer and SC8 pricewise.


The SC8 is just a reskinned 1/8 buggy, and is the only nitro S/C that comes with a big block, so perhaps that explains the price. But damn. 500 bucks for a reliable nitro S/C.




As for that GT conversion...yeah I'm well aware of that. I saw such a conversion done in RC Car Action a couple issues ago. I'll probably end up converting one but I'd rather buy a truck that was made from the get-go as a short course truck.

Argess

To be quite frank, whether it's a short course nitro or something else nitro, I'd like to see something different in Nitro become available, even a smaller version of the Baja 5B with a nitro engine.

And I did vote YES to having a short course truck in nitro.............

tommygun32

I'm really no expert...however...wouldn't a RTR Sand Rail be like a smaller version of the Baja?

Just thinking out loud [&:].

Argess

Yes....is there one?

Now that I think about it, I suppose vehicles like the Duratrax Evader are sort of like that, so maybe I better just stick to "something new would be nice" and not try to specify exactly what that should be, other than it should be nitro-engine equipped. I'm sort of looking for an addition to my RCs, but I don't need another nitro MT, Buggy or Touring car.

378

My Feedback: (4)

XTM Rail + nitro engine conversion - front and center diffs = 1/8 scale 5B.

sloppyG

the market for electrics is so much larger than the market for nitro models,

more people can use an electric because there's more places to run them without bothering people.

nitro's great and I've owned them and had fun, but nitro's going to eventually go the way of the kit in the RC world,

see how just about all RC's are RTR now.... in the near future almost all RC's will be electric and your options to buy a nitro RC will be as limited as your options to buy a kit RC are today.

378

My Feedback: (4)

I doubt that. Kits have a certain niche appeal. Nitro? All you have to do is point out the actual engine in it and you've got a guaranteed sale with gadget tourists. Hell nitro brings many people, myself included, into the hobby.

proanti1

My Feedback: (2)

I would have to disagree, if anything... nitro is selling better now than it ever has. A lot of people like nitro, because its fun to play with a little engine... thats why I prefer it over electric, I like the idea of a little engine moving something around.

Argess

sloppyG

I understand you like your nitro models, and that's great

but if nitro was selling so well, why are most of the new models and releases electric?

look at how many electric models AE or Losi or Kyosho or Traxxas have made vs how many nitro's they've made in the same time
if a company releases 8 electric models vs 2 nitro models... what would that tell you?

nitro is fun, and there are a lot of positive things about them, but the RC industry is not heading in that direction.

SyCo_VeNoM

+1

Doubt I would buy a nitro SCT seeing I've not even bought a electric one though
Would love to see some new, and different design ideas in nitro. Not the same old few tired designs that only a hole on a shock tower is different(that pertains to truggies, and buggies for the most part).

proanti1

My Feedback: (2)

Those companies you have listed have always made more electric models than nitro... but look at the timeline, Associated has quite a few more nitro cars than they started with, same with Losi. Traxxas has always been about the same... the only car they make that only comes as an electric is the 1/16th scale stuff. Look at Ofna, and Mugen... how many nitro models do they have vs electric. I don't even understand how you could think nitro is on the decline... just because they have released a few new electric models?

378

My Feedback: (4)

I would have to say it's because of the whole rock crawler fad prior to Short Course. Rock crawling was huge and nobody ever did a nitro crawler, so electric dominated the popular conscience.


And like all fads we will float right back to nitro in due time. Maybe OS will strike a deal with, say, Losi and start supplying EFI overhead cam four strokes with VVT?


Think about it. Four strokes get better mileage than two strokes. They're ringed so they last way longer. They sound better. They're quieter. And with EFI, OHC and VVT they would be able to rev just as high. To top it off the EFI would render tuning obsolete. Newbies would be able to throw fuel in > start engine and not have to worry about the fuel mixture, and just to add some icing to this delicious sounding cake superchargers would actually be of use!

So can we say "Bye bye two stroke!"?!


It tells me the already impressive nitro models those companies offer are so damn good they don't need a new iteration every other year.


Seriously look at the NTC3. It remains almost 100% unchanged despite being damn near, if not over, a decade old. The current and first gen NTC3 are so similar that you can transform one into the other with a swap of rear suspension and transmission. The RC10GT is even older and has only had one major change. The RC8 is unchanged since it showed up, and is so good AE decided to throw a truck body, roll cage and funky rims on one and call it a short course truck. As for Kyosho...god how old is the Nitro Blizzard? They've been making that thing since I was a damn embryo. Sure they've gotten rid of the GS10 in favor of a larger, more modern engine, but the design remains mostly unchanged. The Mad Force wasn't exactly a spring chicken when I was getting into this hobby six years ago and it's still available exactly the same as it was then. Still has the cute little chain drive and mile long three speed clutch bell. Oh, and Kyosho makes a nitro on-road go kart. Seriously. 1/4th scale glow powered gokart. Uses a smallblock mounted in the same spot a real on-road kart's engine is, although the OEM engine has a funky head on it. And should I mention Thunder Tiger's nitro Ducati? They're still making that thing and you can't really get much more niche than a streetbike RC. HPI's Savage was out when I was getting in and they're still selling like hotcakes with only minor updates over the years...mostly in the engine department. The Tmaxx is still relatively unchanged. Sure it's wider and longer than the old Pro .15 models but it's still the same old truck and you can still fit Pro .15s in the new 2.5 and 3.3 models...and vice versa if you want to shred your old Maxx's gearbox in short order.

The nitro cars on the market are so good that, for the most part, they don't need constant updating. Though I do want 20 minutes in Traxxas' CAD department so I can fix the snappy-in-halfy flaw Tmaxxes have had since day one.

sloppyG

looks like AE on their site is about 19-9 electric vs nitro
Losi looks like 35 electric vs 7 nitro
traxxas looks like 28 electric vs 10 nitro

now some of these electric models are almost identical within the same manufacturer, but each new product has new packaging and new marketing behind it. there's got to be a reason they're re-badging all their own electric models and not doing the same thing with the nitros.

ofna and mugen are hardly big enough to make much of a dent in the RC marketplace. Look at what the successful companies are doing, and that'll tell you where the market is going

many of us don't like traxxas, but they own the market... and how many of their recent releases have been nitro? the most recent would be the slayer I think

but since they've released the slayer,

they've brought out
monster truck bodied pedes
slash 4x4
pede 4x4
1/16 rally
summit

who knows what the heck else, but they're sure coming out with a lot more electrics than nitros.

sloppyG

[/quote]

the more reasonable explanation for this is that there isn't enough money involved in sales to justify revisions,

every time they revise a model, it costs a ton of money to recoup the new tooling costs.

if they keep revising electrics, while leaving the nitros unchanged then that tells you that

A. Competition isn't as fierce between manufacturers
B. Sales aren't as high

look at something like japanese sport bikes for example, all the major makers, Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki have to re-vamp their sportbike lines every 3 years or they get stale and fall behind their competition. Something like a Harley, Ducati, BMW can leave their bikes unchanged for longer periods (and they have to leave them unchanged for longer periods because they also have to recoup their tooling costs and they have to do it on a lower number of sales than the high volume sportbikes)

378

My Feedback: (4)

So I guess there's no such thing as "If it ain't broke don't fix it" for you, right?

As I said that tells me two things: The nitros aren't broken and that the companies don't see a need to fix them.


Sorry to break it to ya but this analogy falls flat on it's face. For every one sportbike I see(Or rather, hear, the only people that buy them where I live do so because of the blistering performance) I see about 15 harleys. Kawasaki's closest offering by volume sold would be their off-road stuff that isn't even street legal. They don't even stock the sportbikes, you have to order one and wait for delivery.

Harley doesn't need to change anything. Their bikes sell fine the way they are, they know it, so the only refinement required is on the backend. Make the engines more reliable, for example. The overall design hasn't changed in sixty years. A brand new Harley sounds exactly the same as a 1951 Harley. Rides the same, too. The only difference is the warranty and the fact that the new one doesn't drip oil all the time. Does that mean they're free of competition? Nope. They have the likes of Honda, BMW and Valkyrie trying to edge into the same market with excellent offerings. Yet Harley Davidson doesn't need to revamp what works, and people automatically assume you're talking about a harley if you're talking about motorcycles and don't specify sportbikes. They aren't fixing what isn't broken.

Look at Porsche for an example of this as well. The 911 hasn't been redesigned since it's origins as a souped up Volkswagen Beetle. The engine's still at the wrong end, the shape hasn't changed a damn bit, it still comes with a proper gearbox, and there's some parts that transfer over 50 years! They didn't even ditch air cooling until the late 90's. Porsche has had plenty of harassment from the likes of BMW, Audi and Merc in the "Fast German Car" segment, yet they haven't had to make any significant alterations to their car.

proanti1

My Feedback: (2)

the more reasonable explanation for this is that there isn't enough money involved in sales to justify revisions,

every time they revise a model, it costs a ton of money to recoup the new tooling costs.

if they keep revising electrics, while leaving the nitros unchanged then that tells you that

A. Competition isn't as fierce between manufacturers
B. Sales aren't as high

look at something like japanese sport bikes for example, all the major makers, Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki have to re-vamp their sportbike lines every 3 years or they get stale and fall behind their competition. Something like a Harley, Ducati, BMW can leave their bikes unchanged for longer periods (and they have to leave them unchanged for longer periods because they also have to recoup their tooling costs and they have to do it on a lower number of sales than the high volume sportbikes)


[/quote]
Terrible comparison.

You still fail to see the fact that nitro is selling, and is far from being on the decline.

rc awesome

Nitro has its nitch in the market, and IMO as long as there will be RCs there will be nitros. Nitro is getting more popular, but one of the reasons that there are more new electrics is because this hobby keeps getting bigger. Begginers ultimately will chose electric before nitro because of the ease of use. Nitro won't die, at least any time soon.

sloppyG

I don't doubt that nitro RC's are selling but nobody here has enough info to say factually if the nitro RC market is growing or shrinking. I see more electric options being released than nitros, and that tells me that RC companies are spending more $$$$ developing electric models than they are spending developing nitro models.


nitro's are a small portion of the market, (just as higher end electric race kits are)

nitro's don't get redesigned as often because they flat out don't sell in nearly the volume of beginner biased RC's

the beginner based stuff, things like traxxas rustlers and the like are the big movers in the RC market.... that's why the rustler has been redone and re-introduced so many times in recent history.

no need for nitro lovers to get defensive, I'm not the one taking your options away.

with how big short course racing is, don't you think one company would make a nitro short course truck? we all know how fast these companies can whip out a new kit, especially if it's only a modified existing platform..... The only things I've seen that I'd call a nitro SCT are that AE model that nobody seems to speak very highly of, and the traxxas slayer.

if there was money to be made, don't you think someone would try it? we certainly have seen just about every RC maker come out with electric SCT's in the recent past

The Hedgehog

Nice speculation, but that's all you are doing, speculating.

Oh and the reason you see more electric models on the websites are they are cheap to make, and are cheap in general (that's why you see TONS of beginner electric rc's). 1/8th kits are almost equal between nitro and electric, something like a bandit/stampede/rustler can skew that number. But that's not a valid number anyway, sales figures are.

sloppyG

speculating is what we're all doing. neither of us have any info to back up anything

but you said 1/8 kits are almost equal between electric and nitro.... we can look at 1/8 race kits exclusively for a second (skipping all the high volume cheap stuff)

5 years ago, they were exclusively nitro, if you wanted a 1/8 buggy nitro was the only way to do it.

now, many are electric

we know the RC world is shrinking, with people from multiple manufacturers claiming the traxxas slash has re-invigorated the whole market... in general that means that the RC market in general (along with the rest of the economy) is shrinking

even if the market isn't shrinking, the 1/8 electrics are stealing marketshare from somebody... and a portion of the sales they're stealing are from nitro 1/8 models. even if only a small portion of the 1/8 stuff at your local track is electric, out of that small portion, some may have not chosen to race without an electric option, but others are choosing to race electric over nitro.

show me some sales numbers that prove nitro is growing, and I'll be shocked

you guys need to stop taking it so personal that nitro is shrinking, and electric is growing. that doesn't mean that nitro's not fun, and a great choice to power your RC.

ts99ad

I am a absolute noob.  I have no choice but to start with electric because the thought of tuning, maintaining and repairing an engine that fits in my hand scares the crap out of me, really i have a hard enough time with a car engine.  These engines turn 30,000 RPM, lots of small parts and 1/8 turn means all the difference in the world.  It is because of electic motors that i am stepping into the hobby, that I have long forgotten since I was 8 yrs old.   Once I gain a better understanding of how things work, i want to try my hand in with a Nitro.

The marker is growing because of electric and teh ease of use, new buyers enjoy new flashy things.  The big money in is new customers, hence electric.  The expenieced users seem to prefer nitro, and the new buyers like me will probally move to nitro once we become more comfortable. 

378

My Feedback: (4)

That fear is unfounded, BTW. A good engine is no harder to work with than an electric.