Problem breaking-in a ASP 120
07-04-2007, 12:56 PM
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Problem breaking-in a ASP 120
Gentlemen,
I tried to break in a ASP 120 yesterday but I could not get it to richen up in order for it to four cycle. I use the procedure where I run the engine for three minutes at a time for ten rounds and progresively closing the needle till its running consistently. I had the highspeed needle almost completly out and it would still not richen out. I checked on the web for if I could find any info on the break in procedure and learned that I should be using a fuel with maximum 5% nitro. Is this true??? The problem I face here is that 5% nitro fuel is not available here in Aruba[
]. Does anyone have any recomendation as to what I can do to get this engine broken in? or what I can do with the fuel to reduce the amount of nitro? Your suggestions will be highly apreciated. Regards, Raul G. Croes
I tried to break in a ASP 120 yesterday but I could not get it to richen up in order for it to four cycle. I use the procedure where I run the engine for three minutes at a time for ten rounds and progresively closing the needle till its running consistently. I had the highspeed needle almost completly out and it would still not richen out. I checked on the web for if I could find any info on the break in procedure and learned that I should be using a fuel with maximum 5% nitro. Is this true??? The problem I face here is that 5% nitro fuel is not available here in Aruba[
]. Does anyone have any recomendation as to what I can do to get this engine broken in? or what I can do with the fuel to reduce the amount of nitro? Your suggestions will be highly apreciated. Regards, Raul G. Croes
07-04-2007, 01:15 PM
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RE: Problem breaking-in a ASP 120
Sounds like your low speed adjustment is lean; some low speed adjustments can be so lean that it negates the high speed .
07-04-2007, 11:55 PM
#3
RE: Problem breaking-in a ASP 120
Hi Raul,
I have had the exact same problem on a new ASP180. In fact I had the high speed come out in my hand and the revs did not change. Eventually I had to richen the Low needle out to 3 full turns to get it to run. I do not use any Nitro at all. I run many 4 strokes and nevr have used nitro in any of them.
I do use on board glow for starts and idles up to about 1/4 throttle using a micro switch.
Cool power at 17% plus 1 % castor is the oil I use.
To run in, I then set the main needle at a rich setting and then alter in 1/2 turn for 10 seconds then out for ten seconds for 1 tank.
After about 20 minutes I flew the model with a richish setting for about 12 flights.
At this point I decided to try and get the tuning as good as I could.
The default setting in the manual for the low needle is 2 turns out from closed but this did not work on my motor.
To reset the low needle. Do this in your workshop when it is quiet as you will need to listen carefully.
Connect a 6 inch fuel tube to the carby nipple.
Turn the low needle in until it stops.
Blow in the fuel tube, while turning the low needle out (richening) until you hear faint hissing. This will get you very close.
Remember that Low needle and High needle need to be set together.
So now reset the main needle. When you get optimum revs richen back say 3 clicks.
Then to check how your tuning is going. When the engine is idling, just squeeze the fuel tube just before it enters the carby. If the idle dies it is too lean. If the idle speeds up and then dies, it is set ok.
Cheers
Chris De Jon
I have had the exact same problem on a new ASP180. In fact I had the high speed come out in my hand and the revs did not change. Eventually I had to richen the Low needle out to 3 full turns to get it to run. I do not use any Nitro at all. I run many 4 strokes and nevr have used nitro in any of them.
I do use on board glow for starts and idles up to about 1/4 throttle using a micro switch.
Cool power at 17% plus 1 % castor is the oil I use.
To run in, I then set the main needle at a rich setting and then alter in 1/2 turn for 10 seconds then out for ten seconds for 1 tank.
After about 20 minutes I flew the model with a richish setting for about 12 flights.
At this point I decided to try and get the tuning as good as I could.
The default setting in the manual for the low needle is 2 turns out from closed but this did not work on my motor.
To reset the low needle. Do this in your workshop when it is quiet as you will need to listen carefully.
Connect a 6 inch fuel tube to the carby nipple.
Turn the low needle in until it stops.
Blow in the fuel tube, while turning the low needle out (richening) until you hear faint hissing. This will get you very close.
Remember that Low needle and High needle need to be set together.
So now reset the main needle. When you get optimum revs richen back say 3 clicks.
Then to check how your tuning is going. When the engine is idling, just squeeze the fuel tube just before it enters the carby. If the idle dies it is too lean. If the idle speeds up and then dies, it is set ok.
Cheers
Chris De Jon
07-05-2007, 08:22 AM
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RE: Problem breaking-in a ASP 120
Thank you guys, I'll try out your suggestions today and I'll let you know if I've managed. It is people like you that make this hobby great. Once more thank you for being there. Happy flying
, Regards Raul
, Regards Raul
07-10-2007, 07:31 PM
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RE: Problem breaking-in a ASP 120
well guys, I've tried your suggestions but it would still not run. it will fire up for a second of two and then die. I have noticed that when I try to prime the motor it would not draw any fuel unless the throtle was completly open. also when the motor fires up I have to keep putting my finger on the muffler outlet to force it draw fuel to stay running but as soon as I stop doing it, it dies again. I was told to use a 4 stroke glow plug instead of the 2 stroke, but all stayed the same. the motor gets extremely hot! I don't know what more to do[]. Anyone has had similar problems??? pls. help! I thank you in advance. Raul G. Croes.
]. Anyone has had similar problems??? pls. help! I thank you in advance. Raul G. Croes.
07-10-2007, 08:48 PM
#6
RE: Problem breaking-in a ASP 120
If you are using a fuel with more than 5% nitro you will need to add a 2nd head gasket to reduce the compression. The larger ASP engines are designed to run on FAI fuel (0% nitro ) to 5% nitro, higher nitro just causes backfires and erratic running. I found this out the hard way with an ASP 1.08.
07-10-2007, 09:29 PM
#7
RE: Problem breaking-in a ASP 120
Hi again Raul,
The fact that it is firing up for a second or 2 shows that the motor should run but something is obstructing it.
It appears to me that it is having trouble drawing fuel, and when has enough to fire then fires up, using up the fuel that it has attomised, then dies.
Or it could still be too lean.
I would go back to basics.
First check fuel draw.
check that the tank is hooked up correctly:- For instance can you blow through the tank pressure line and create resistance by squeezing off the fuel supply line.
This will tell you if the lines are pinched.
I don't mean to be insulting but check this, as I have done this myself- check that you have in fact connected the clunk line to the carby and not the pressure line.
I don't think it is the plug at this stage as it is firing. A 4 stroke plug is the best in a four stroke as they have longer reach. Use e.g. An OS F or similar.
Check also that the clunk is not too long and is trapped in a corner of the tank obstructing flow.
Fuel Draw problems:- The stopper in the tank should be even or just below the main needle. I don't think this would stop it from running.
Do you have the manual for the motor?
Badly adjusted tappets could be a problem with heat etc. Have you adjusted them?
Running extremely hot is a sign of lean running.
Go back to basics with needle settings:-
Check that as a start the high needle is 2 1/2 turns out from closed.
Recheck the low needle. With the throttle fully open turn the low needle anti clockwise about 2 turns out.
Check by looking that you have not somehow locked up the throttle stop screw.
look to see that the hole in the carby is travelling from say a pinhole to full open.
You may be trying to start on a nearly fully open throttle.
Good luck
Chris De Jon
The fact that it is firing up for a second or 2 shows that the motor should run but something is obstructing it.
It appears to me that it is having trouble drawing fuel, and when has enough to fire then fires up, using up the fuel that it has attomised, then dies.
Or it could still be too lean.
I would go back to basics.
First check fuel draw.
check that the tank is hooked up correctly:- For instance can you blow through the tank pressure line and create resistance by squeezing off the fuel supply line.
This will tell you if the lines are pinched.
I don't mean to be insulting but check this, as I have done this myself- check that you have in fact connected the clunk line to the carby and not the pressure line.
I don't think it is the plug at this stage as it is firing. A 4 stroke plug is the best in a four stroke as they have longer reach. Use e.g. An OS F or similar.
Check also that the clunk is not too long and is trapped in a corner of the tank obstructing flow.
Fuel Draw problems:- The stopper in the tank should be even or just below the main needle. I don't think this would stop it from running.
Do you have the manual for the motor?
Badly adjusted tappets could be a problem with heat etc. Have you adjusted them?
Running extremely hot is a sign of lean running.
Go back to basics with needle settings:-
Check that as a start the high needle is 2 1/2 turns out from closed.
Recheck the low needle. With the throttle fully open turn the low needle anti clockwise about 2 turns out.
Check by looking that you have not somehow locked up the throttle stop screw.
look to see that the hole in the carby is travelling from say a pinhole to full open.
You may be trying to start on a nearly fully open throttle.
Good luck
Chris De Jon
07-11-2007, 06:35 AM
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RE: Problem breaking-in a ASP 120
Well gentlemen I will go at it again. The motor defenetly has a problem with fuel draw but I don't know why because I have it in a break in stand so there are no pinched fuel lines. I have also replaced the fuel tank just in case but still no progress. I thank you so much for your help. As soon as I have an update, I'll let you Know. Regards, Raul
07-12-2007, 01:24 AM
#10
RE: Problem breaking-in a ASP 120
Raul,
One thing I have seen in the past is a blockage in the carby. The blockage can sometimes float around inside the carby and create spasmodic interruption.
A quick fix is to place some fuel tube on a medical syringe. Fill the syringe with fuel connect the tube to the carby nipple and flush the syringe in and out. You may suck out any blockage.
OR
You can remove the carby from the motor. Remove the needles and the rotor.
Find a jar that will hold the carby,put the carby in the jar with enough fuel to cover all the bits.
Put the lid on and swirl and shake the bottle. You may see the blockage come floating out. Reassemble and reset the needles as above posts and also make sure the throttle stop screw is set as above posts.
Cheers
Chris De Jon
One thing I have seen in the past is a blockage in the carby. The blockage can sometimes float around inside the carby and create spasmodic interruption.
A quick fix is to place some fuel tube on a medical syringe. Fill the syringe with fuel connect the tube to the carby nipple and flush the syringe in and out. You may suck out any blockage.
OR
You can remove the carby from the motor. Remove the needles and the rotor.
Find a jar that will hold the carby,put the carby in the jar with enough fuel to cover all the bits.
Put the lid on and swirl and shake the bottle. You may see the blockage come floating out. Reassemble and reset the needles as above posts and also make sure the throttle stop screw is set as above posts.
Cheers
Chris De Jon
07-12-2007, 04:54 AM
#11
Senior Member
RE: Problem breaking-in a ASP 120
There is something stopping the fuel from getting to or getting past the needle's location. Some can get past obviously, but not enough to supply a running engine.
You can test for blockages a number of ways. One of the best is to use a length of fuel tubing and blow through it. If you can't tell if your breath is getting through, then listen. You should be able to hear the air. From the symptoms you've described, you might hear a very restricted flow.
Start by putting one end of the tube onto the inlet pipe into the carb. Close the needle valve and start blowing. Open the needle while blowing and listen. You should hear when the needle opens enough to allow the air through. It ought to happen almost right away and the sound should increase as you open the needle. At some point it should be pretty easy to blow and opening the needle doesn't change that. If you can blow into the carb easily, then the restriction isn't in the carb. Try another tank with the engine.
If an engine won't draw fuel from a tank, the pickup in the tank could be blocked, or has fallen off, or isn't under the fuel. If you've mixed up the tank's lines the carb might be trying to draw from a line that's not under fuel inside the tank.
If the carb can get fuel but won't draw it, there could be something in the carb blocking the fuel from reaching the spray bar hole. The blowing test should tell you that.
You can test for blockages a number of ways. One of the best is to use a length of fuel tubing and blow through it. If you can't tell if your breath is getting through, then listen. You should be able to hear the air. From the symptoms you've described, you might hear a very restricted flow.
Start by putting one end of the tube onto the inlet pipe into the carb. Close the needle valve and start blowing. Open the needle while blowing and listen. You should hear when the needle opens enough to allow the air through. It ought to happen almost right away and the sound should increase as you open the needle. At some point it should be pretty easy to blow and opening the needle doesn't change that. If you can blow into the carb easily, then the restriction isn't in the carb. Try another tank with the engine.
If an engine won't draw fuel from a tank, the pickup in the tank could be blocked, or has fallen off, or isn't under the fuel. If you've mixed up the tank's lines the carb might be trying to draw from a line that's not under fuel inside the tank.
If the carb can get fuel but won't draw it, there could be something in the carb blocking the fuel from reaching the spray bar hole. The blowing test should tell you that.
07-29-2007, 05:44 PM
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RE: Problem breaking-in a ASP 120
Wel gentlemen, the problem was solved by replacing the carb with the old one I had on hand. As soon I've installed the old one it fired right up. I'll have to take a closer look at the new carb and try to find out whats wrong with it. I've disassembled it and cleaned it up pretty thoroughly prior to replacing it with the old one but it would still not perform. In any event the break-in went smoothly after that. Thanks a lot for your input, regards, Raul G. Croes[8D]
