captain_crash

Hi all......... A general question about a specific type product.... Does anyone have any experience with these "China ARF's" made in china under NO name brand, offered in EBAY and seem to sell, but look to me a little cheep......... here is a link, some of the airplanes with opaque coverings show what looks like to me a pretty flimsy airframe....... Does anybody know much about these????? Thanks Captain Crash....
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ADME:B:WN:US:1
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to see other planes click on "View sellers other auctions"

johnfd22

My Feedback: (28)

I have bought a couple of ARF'S. The instruction are not the best. the covering is good better than most name brand ARF's You can not beat the price .The hardware is not the best .But all in all the fly great and believe it or not the look good.I had bought a Texan and couple of 3d planes liked them all.They hold up well .The airframe are pretty strong on most.

piper_chuck

My Feedback: (12)

If you want a cheap plane from a company that has little to no customer service, but is merely an importer of cheap goods from China, go for it. If you think you might want support in case something's wrong, or you have questions, then buy from a place that's interested in the hobby, such as your local hobby shop, or an online vendor with a good replutation for support. Mkland (aka raidentech, egrandby, etc) are in it for the $ and nothing other than the $. Notice that they charge artificially high shipping on their auctions ($26 for an ARF trainer is high) so they can even cheat eBay out of some of the money they should get. The same planes through one of their web sites usually have about $15 shipping.

On to your question. I did get what I call a generic Chinese ARF. Construction was so-so. I sealed the covering with an iron before the first flight. After one session at the field, the covering had already begun separating from its glue, and color. This was enough of an experiment for me, I went back to buying planes with a name brand, and through places with good customer service.

captain_crash

John and Chuck, thanks for the posts.....
I too was skeptical about the planes offered with no brand name, and they did look a little cheap.... I was gonna bid on one of them, but reconsidered, I now have an order in at richmond rc ... www.richmondrc.com .... their planes look a lot nicer, I opted for the Escape, a low wing nice looking bird......... I do not know much about their coverings but they seem to know what they are doing.... 114.95 total,price with shipping, Now the cheap chinese would have cost me 51.99 plus the (Inflated ) shipping of 26 bucks and probably having to throw out all the acessories and replacing them, I believe it is best to stay with a company a person can contact if any problems arrise....... I do appreciate your inputs....... when in doubt, ask hahaha ... Captain Crash...

mugenkidd

My Feedback: (94)

You have to admit that the ebay/paypal empire is somewhat gouging its sellers on fees. with ebay and paypal together they are getting close to 10% per transaction multiply that with the number of auctions and ebay is making a killing so i can't get mad at someone for trying to cover there fees with extra shipping charges, its just up to the bidder to take this into consideration.

BTW i purchased one ARF from ebay, it was a .40 size pattern type plane, one of those deals I put a bid on it soo cheap I new there was no way I would win and I did. Well to make a long story short my buddy bought it from me (last thing I needed at the time was another plane) and he had great success with it, it was an excellent flyer, his only problem was he thought it needed a little more reinforcement around the landing gear, but I think that was more do to a rough flying field than anything. Long story short I would gladly buy another ebay plane if it looked like something I would want, but then again most look like cheap crap in the pictures to begin with so for the most part ebay doesn't have anything that interest me.

captain_crash

Yep E-pay is quite an empire, wish I had thought of it first hahahahaha like you say, the shipping and (Handling) is where some make their profit, but you just have to factor it in on a bid...... for now however, it is best for me to avoid Epay, I do get the fever whenever my finger is on the mouse and mine eyes see candy................ Captain Crash...

ckangaroo70

My Feedback: (51)

Hi Captain
I was just curious if you have done any research here on RCU on the Richmond R/C (Vmar) Planes? I have a couple in the hangar, and all I can say is that I sure hope they have improved for your sake. The wood which is not balsa tends to warp severly, and the ECS Polykote looks good, but is the worst I have seen once it sits in the sun for awhile, and trying to iron out wrinkles just makes it worse. More then likely you may find it best to replace all the hardware, especially the wheels, and possibly the engine mount. It has been quite awhile since I did any business with Richmond, so maybe they have improved things since then. I am not trying to be the messenger of bad news, I just want to make you aware of some potential problems you may need to be aware of. If you can live with everything that comes with the Plane, and use all the stock accesseries, then the Planes are priced O.K, and you will get your monies worth from the Plane. If you end up having to throw away a bunch of stuff, or replacing things, then you are going to be up to a price more comparable with Great Planes, Hangar 9, Sig, etc. by the time you are ready to fly it. When you first take the Plane out of the box it will look great, and you wonder what in the world I am talking about. Give it a month, and then you will begin to see what I am saying. I have actually read some pretty descent reports on some of the China Planes. Really the most negative thing I here about them is in regards to shipping fees, and not actually the Planes themselves. Some venders on ebay charge excessive shipping fees, and Giant Scale Planes also has a rep for excessive high shipping prices. Raidentech seems to be a better choice to order from. Their prices are descent, and the shipping is to, and the Planes by in large seem to be liked O.K.

piper_chuck

My Feedback: (12)

Compared to the cost of opening a store, paying for insurance, utilities, advertising, etc, 10% is a bargain. It's amazing how people manage to rationalize cheating a company out of income they are entitled to because they think the company is too profitable. If a person doesn't like the eBay fees, use another service. Otherwise, be honest, and follow the terms agreed to.

captain_crash

ckangaroo70 Howdy,,, hey thanks for the heads up, I actually had just seen their ad in the Model Airplane News magazine and got to looking at them, well its too late for me, I'm into them for 114.95. I will surely check out the plane with a fine tooth comb when it arrives and if I see anything like you are telling me, I will be talking to customer service..... Please do not think of yourself as the bearer of bad news..... I do appreciate all and any feedback on things like this, as I had absolutely zero knowedge of their covering system, and will be watching it as well....... hanks again for the feedback, I appreciate it!!!! Captain Crash...

mugenkidd

My Feedback: (94)

Capitalism works both ways, if you feel its cheating don't do it. Several website set up a minimal shipping charge to cover extra cost as well as uping the prices of items to cover the 3% charge for credit card transactions. In the business world honesty is relative. I have run a website and can tell you this information first hand.

captain_crash

hey kanga, WOW I must have been under that rock for longer than I had thought, just spent an hour or so looking through a million posts about the company VMAR products...... hard to gauge appropriately, seems like the Old stuff was indeed terrible by 60-70 percent of the opinions, allso sounds like the company has gone into better woods since then.... sounds like the covering hasn't changed much... Oh well, I will have to due more due dilligence for the next time..... who knows maby I might just get me one of them cherry planes that 30-40 percent or so speak highly of...... hahahahahah looks like a crap shoot either way......... Captain Crash...

ckangaroo70

My Feedback: (51)

Hey Captain
Since you allready have the Plane on order, just fly it, and enjoy it. The ones I have do fly good, and basically that is probally the most important quallity above all else. You could build a Plane from steel that would last forever, but I don't think it would be much of a flyer. So just go over it good, and be sure to use some hardware you can trust, and have fun with it. Even though I am dissapointed in the quallity of my two Vmar Planes, I still enjoy Flying them. Have a great day!

captain_crash

Ray..... sounds like the best advice....... works for me....... take care ....Captain Crash...

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

Correct. You need to factor it into your bid.
Lots of people nowadays, especially Chinese, are selling stuff for a penny with $49.95 shipping and handling. Why? Because it dramatically lowers your Ebay Final Value Fees. More power to them, it means lower prices for us, the consumers, and less for ebay. Ebay makes staggering amounts of money, if you really think you know how much, you don't...Meg Whitman, the CEO, made four BILLION dollars of of it. $380,000 was paid by ebay for her PERSONAL vacation travel(not business travel...that was several million more) in the Ebay corporate jet last year.
So, you have to forgive me if I do not shed any tears for anybody who skirts around some ebay fees, let EBAY worry about that...belive me, ebay will do YOU for a dollar if they can, they are not on any moral high ground, they are just a money machine.

Cheap ARFs, well, some are very cheap, and some are very nice, almost all come out of the same factories...
"Support?" "Customer service"? Well...there is not much of that anyway from most outlets, so you decide if you want another middleman who doubles the price and adds little or no value to the item, or whether or not you just want to go direct. How much "support" do you think you get with an ARF model airplane? Not much, usually. Most people won't even sell you parts, unless they happen to have a damaged kit on hand.

mugenkidd

My Feedback: (94)

Very well put EASYTIGER!!!!!! and thanks for sharing some exact figures I never took the time to look those up exactly.

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

[Pretty much all succesful mail order companies make money off of shipping and "handling". It's just the way of the world. Advertise a lower price and try to make it up on "handling". It's totally normal. Pretty much any hobby item you order will have some S&H padded, you just need to ask before you bid or buy and factor that into your price.
The world is not going to change on this matter any time soon.

piper_chuck

My Feedback: (12)

Tiger, save the insults for someone else. The words you type speak pretty clearly about where your ethics are. I will not be lectured by someone who advocates cheating a company merely because they are profitable, or a person because they are successful.
In this case, it's you who are in a dreamworld. Tell me, Mr know-it-all, what's the typical shipping charge at Tower? I'll save you the trouble, it's a flat $7.99 regardless of the size or weight of the order. That's right, it doesn't matter how much it costs Tower, the most I'll pay is $7.99. How about some of the other successful places? Similar thing, they charge reasonable shipping. In fact, many offer free shipping if the order is over a certain amount.

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

Ok guys...

This thread is now locked and has been cleaned up by me