Your opinion, ZDZ, Brison, Da, First Place, 3W
12-01-2003, 05:32 PM
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Your opinion, ZDZ, Brison, Da, First Place, 3W
I am getting into gas.......pressure from the gas boys. I have purchased the Top Flight P 51 Arf and will be going with a gas engine. I have lots of experience with war bird type a/c and 4 strokers. I just purchased several RCV in-line engines. Cost aside, does anyone want to offer their opinion of what is the best for the weight/horsepower and quality of engine. I want a strong powerful engine for the P 51. Any advice will be appreciated with regards to engine choice or type. The BLACK SHEEP handle is a long story.
Thanks for the help.
Thanks for the help.
12-01-2003, 05:44 PM
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RE: Your opinion, ZDZ, Brison, Da, First Place, 3W
Black Sheep,
I have talked with fellows who fly this plane on a G45 and a G62. My take on their feedback was that, the 45 flew it fine but it could use a bit more power, and the 62 had the power but it was, of course, heavier. Long story short, I think you are on the right track with considering one of the new 50cc class engines that have hit the market recently.
Which one? I fly for RC Showcase/ZDZ so I'd of course recommend the ZDZ-50NG. I believe that you would be very happy with this engine - quite honestly I think you would also be happy with the DA-50 or BME-50 as well. Mike Dooley at RCS, Dave Johnson at DA and Keith Baker at BME are all stand up guys who I am confident you would enjoy dealing with.
I'd pick one of these three and you'll be happy.
Dave Michael
I have talked with fellows who fly this plane on a G45 and a G62. My take on their feedback was that, the 45 flew it fine but it could use a bit more power, and the 62 had the power but it was, of course, heavier. Long story short, I think you are on the right track with considering one of the new 50cc class engines that have hit the market recently.
Which one? I fly for RC Showcase/ZDZ so I'd of course recommend the ZDZ-50NG. I believe that you would be very happy with this engine - quite honestly I think you would also be happy with the DA-50 or BME-50 as well. Mike Dooley at RCS, Dave Johnson at DA and Keith Baker at BME are all stand up guys who I am confident you would enjoy dealing with.
I'd pick one of these three and you'll be happy.
Dave Michael
12-01-2003, 08:19 PM
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RE: Your opinion, ZDZ, Brison, Da, First Place, 3W
I have the DA50 in the TF P-51 it flies the plane exceptionally well. You do have an available space issue on the TF 1/5 scale P-51. The DA50 is argueably the smallest package out there in it's size/power range and balanced the plane beautifully. I think the ZDZ50 would also be a great engine. All I can tell you is that I love mine with the DA50. Also the engine runs like a dream.
12-01-2003, 09:50 PM
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RE: Your opinion, ZDZ, Brison, Da, First Place, 3W
Really, anything from a ZDZ-40 to any of the 50-52cc offerngs will be plenty for that plane, and they are all pretty reliable with few bad manners. If you want to keep the cowl looking stock, go with the ZDZ 40, 50 or 60, or the DA50. The rear induction will help keep holes out of the cowl. If a bit surgery does not bother you, try the BME 44 or 50, the Taurus 52, or any of the Sachs conversions from Brison, FPE or other companies.
My personal choices would be either the DA or BME 50's. . they make the best power of the group of 40-52cc engines, and are about of equal weight. I'd stay away from the ZDZ offerings (personally) simply because they are less powerful per CC of displacement than the BME or DA, unless they are piped, and the disk valve induction can be a pain in some cases if the engine decides to get contrary. Since the engine will be mounted inverted, it's a LOT easier to flood a ZDZ single than a DA or BME, and you might not want to have that headache. People have developed starting "techniques" but for utter simplicity of useage, the DA and BME are the ticket. Remember, the DA WILL require standoffs, while the BME takes a beam style mount.
One other engine, the new Brison 52cc rear induction motor, might be worth looking at, but it's rather heavy for this category of engines, and no one has hard rpm numbers for it yet.
My personal choices would be either the DA or BME 50's. . they make the best power of the group of 40-52cc engines, and are about of equal weight. I'd stay away from the ZDZ offerings (personally) simply because they are less powerful per CC of displacement than the BME or DA, unless they are piped, and the disk valve induction can be a pain in some cases if the engine decides to get contrary. Since the engine will be mounted inverted, it's a LOT easier to flood a ZDZ single than a DA or BME, and you might not want to have that headache. People have developed starting "techniques" but for utter simplicity of useage, the DA and BME are the ticket. Remember, the DA WILL require standoffs, while the BME takes a beam style mount.
One other engine, the new Brison 52cc rear induction motor, might be worth looking at, but it's rather heavy for this category of engines, and no one has hard rpm numbers for it yet.
12-01-2003, 11:35 PM
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RE: Your opinion, ZDZ, Brison, Da, First Place, 3W
interesting - - not quite accurate - but -interesting -
You are familiar with the new ZDZ50's?
We also see the DA - -can't comment on the others -no one here has em -
I am sure they also will work well.
You are familiar with the new ZDZ50's?
We also see the DA - -can't comment on the others -no one here has em -
I am sure they also will work well.
12-02-2003, 01:21 PM
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RE: Your opinion, ZDZ, Brison, Da, First Place, 3W
I am not sure where Kris^ gets his information!?
My ZDZ 50 NG with Mejlik 22X10 out turned a previous ZDZ 50 with a pro Zinger by 1200 rpm on the first run. Started perfect and never flooded.
As far as the power is concerned, DA said their engine turned a 22X10 Menz prop 300 rpm faster than the old ZDZ 50. The new ZDZ 50 truns the same prop 600 rpm faster which means that it will turn 300 rpm faster than the DA50.
The DA50 is a great engine also (my 2nd choice if the ZDZ 50 NG was not available). I wasn't to keen on the side mount carb on the BME and cutting holes in the side of the cowl.
Victor
My ZDZ 50 NG with Mejlik 22X10 out turned a previous ZDZ 50 with a pro Zinger by 1200 rpm on the first run. Started perfect and never flooded.
As far as the power is concerned, DA said their engine turned a 22X10 Menz prop 300 rpm faster than the old ZDZ 50. The new ZDZ 50 truns the same prop 600 rpm faster which means that it will turn 300 rpm faster than the DA50.
The DA50 is a great engine also (my 2nd choice if the ZDZ 50 NG was not available). I wasn't to keen on the side mount carb on the BME and cutting holes in the side of the cowl.
Victor
12-02-2003, 02:21 PM
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RE: Your opinion, ZDZ, Brison, Da, First Place, 3W
I have a ZDZ50 running inverted. I don't experience any flooding problems. It starts easily and runs great. Rotary valve is more accurate way to control intake timing. Reed timing is dependent on pressures within the crank case and varies with RPM. Performance of the reed valve falls off at higher RPM.
I have friends that use all of the mentioned brands. They are all great engines. It's great to have so many choices. But this makes selection all the more difficult.
B.......
I have friends that use all of the mentioned brands. They are all great engines. It's great to have so many choices. But this makes selection all the more difficult.
B.......
12-02-2003, 04:28 PM
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RE: Your opinion, ZDZ, Brison, Da, First Place, 3W
I guess I do question "easier to flood /less power "opinion" offered above - as I simply see no evidence to that .
There are quite a few rotary valve engines here - and the fact of the matter is - they outnumber other types by a huge margin - probably twice as many as the other brands combined.
Most are used by guys who purchased them from simply observing the results they see.
Where I got quite a few questions three years ago about how they run - anymore , I watch newcomers take theirs and simply go out and fly - no fuss no muss.
As for the lower power comparison- well - that simply is not so .
We run our friends engines on our test bench and have tried all types of mufflers/pipes .etc., on various brands , so I speak from actual comparison not speculation.
There are quite a few rotary valve engines here - and the fact of the matter is - they outnumber other types by a huge margin - probably twice as many as the other brands combined.
Most are used by guys who purchased them from simply observing the results they see.
Where I got quite a few questions three years ago about how they run - anymore , I watch newcomers take theirs and simply go out and fly - no fuss no muss.
As for the lower power comparison- well - that simply is not so .
We run our friends engines on our test bench and have tried all types of mufflers/pipes .etc., on various brands , so I speak from actual comparison not speculation.
12-02-2003, 09:07 PM
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RE: Your opinion, ZDZ, Brison, Da, First Place, 3W
Dont discount Brison Aircraft for down home service and straight forward technology you cannot beat them. There is something to be said for the people who thought up Bar Stock engines......Al Willart is the genius behind all this CNC stuff from years gone by. I think if it were not for him DA and 3W would still be just a dream.
The jury is still out on the revolution 52, but there is still whats left in the shop. While I think a slim profile of some kind is called for on the P-51 IE.... ZDZ or a DA. Just because the IMAC guys are running it dont mean its the motor for you. Scale war birds call out for steady reliable power hence you still see the Scale Masters guys running Zenoah's. There's a reason for that and its not because they all build their models tail heavy.
Also better think about how a hot engine runs too cause baby you gonna find out just how hot an engine can get in that sleek slim no room to get even your pinky finger in cowling. The Term ............it goes on one way........may have new meaning.
Can you say baffle !!
JDS
Ps- Best wishes with what ever you get. jds
The jury is still out on the revolution 52, but there is still whats left in the shop. While I think a slim profile of some kind is called for on the P-51 IE.... ZDZ or a DA. Just because the IMAC guys are running it dont mean its the motor for you. Scale war birds call out for steady reliable power hence you still see the Scale Masters guys running Zenoah's. There's a reason for that and its not because they all build their models tail heavy.
Also better think about how a hot engine runs too cause baby you gonna find out just how hot an engine can get in that sleek slim no room to get even your pinky finger in cowling. The Term ............it goes on one way........may have new meaning.
Can you say baffle !!
JDS
Ps- Best wishes with what ever you get. jds
