TManiaci

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Okay, I'll start one up here.

Getting ready to put together my Christmas present, The new Fliton Edge 540 Mini.

Man, I gotta say, this is by far the nicest little bird I have ever seen. The finish is incredible, and the build is so lite and cool. The thing specs to be 20 oz's, I'm going lite with a target for 17-18 oz's. Here is a few picts to start off. It promises to be much better than my Mini Funtana @ 22.6 oz's. The control surfaces on this monster are HUGE. I heard one guy say it flies like a foamie... now that's what I wanted.

Trogdor the Burninator

So how do you plan to get it so light? Hacker outrunner (Razor even?!) TP prolites, gws rx or berg, 7g servo or lighter? helium?

TManiaci

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Trog,

Funny... it's do-able I think without helium. The raw plane weighs in something under 12 oz's with all the plastic bags and untrimmed canopy, etc. (spec's say 9.8 oz's for the plane without gear). I'll get a more accurate measure soon. I will trash the complex motor mount for the outrunner, and make a mount like the one I made on my Mini Funtana (see photo). That is incredibly light, and much stronger too. Expect to save over an ounce there and avoid the need for the reversing outrunner mount kit too.

I will start out with an AXI 2212/20, Phoenix 25, [link=http://www.rc-dymond.com/order_batteries_lipol.htm]Dymond 3S HD 1500 mAH 12C[/link] and APC 10x3.8 SF. All that gear adds up to ~6 oz's. That setup will make 195 watts WOT @ 18 amps and pulls just over 35 oz's thrust as I recall. I fly this setup on my E-Flight YAK 54F. Great setup and runs cool with hard 3D.

I will also use the [link=http://www.rc-dymond.com/order_servo_dymond.htm]Dymond D47 Servos[/link], which are only 4.7 grams each, so a set of 4 is less than 3/4 oz. These are amazing little servos. They have more torque and are faster than an HS-55, at near 1/2 the weight. Great quality German-made import. You gotta try these on your foamies.

I'll use the JR R610UL Rx, only 7 grams (1/4 oz).

So, with a bit of glue and a few other small items to add very small bits of additoinal weight, you can do the math and see it should come in just over 17 oz's. That's my hope, anyway. If it's too heavy, then I'll kick it up to an AXI 2808/24 and 2100 mAH lipo like I run on the MF, which will push it up to the published 20 oz range.

Trogdor the Burninator

Oh ya Tman, I remember your yak54 thread... I was surprised to see your axi 2212/20 abuse.. I have the same motor and am now tempted to try the same to see how it compares to my hacker a20-22L. Right now its in a Formosa spinning an 8x6... I use a GWS 11x7HD on the Hacker at 200 watts in the yak54. I think you also suggested flat carbon to beef up the fuse of the Yak. I just used tape and was happy but I did get some flat carbon to play with.

I do like your motor mount and it cleverly avoids the use of extra hardware.. only thing is it possibly getting in the way of some cowls. What size carbon tubes are those? do you have a pic of the other side? You said it goes through two pieces of ply, right?

oops and I shoulda put a smiley at the end of my first post.. just kidding! wanted to see your plan...

TManiaci

My Feedback: (6)

Trog,

Yea, it takes a little creativity to keep it from interfering with the cowl, but it's not impossible, just tricky to work out the shape of the mount plate inside a 3-dimensional space. I've already decided it's okay on the Edge. The mount plate will be a longer, shorter shape, but it will fit fine. The key to this mount is the compound angles creating a trapizoidal box. I've done this on two outrunner installs now, and in both you can twist the fuse by the mount plate. It provides extraordinary strength. The CF tubes are 1/8" OD x 1/16" ID, and they connect at two points on the fuse end. (see photo)

You can see a detailed photo sequence of the build procedure [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=3319069]HERE[/link] and a detailed written procedure [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=3477481]HERE[/link]. The trick is to maintain the thrust angle and cowl offset with this mounting method. These build threads explain how to keep it right.

The second one I built like this was on a Hirobo Extra 300, where I improved it with thinner ply, and laminated both sides of the ply with 0.014 CF sheeting before cutting and shaping the mount. Gets even lighter, and stronger too. It's a tedious build, but it really works well.

On this Edge, it will be a little different, because of the reveresed motor design of the stock setup. I'll do it in a similar manner as I did on the Hirobo Exra. You can see that technique [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=3481189]HERE[/link]. The difference will be that I'll use the stock mount system, temporarily installed, and make a tubular dummy-motor to place the mount in three-dimensional space before installing the CF tubes. I'll put up photos of the build here.

CptCliffhanger

My Feedback: (6)

I'm digging you info. I really like all the fliton stuff I've seen so far! Want a flight report ASAP!

Stephan

GoeKeli

My Feedback: (18)

I had about 5 minutes stick time on one of these the other day. WICKED PLANE!!! Really fun and made me want to get one and the extra as well. I hope you come out as light as you are trying. It was kick for sure!

Joe

TManiaci

My Feedback: (6)

That's good to hear Joe. It sure looks promising so far. There is a thread over on RCG, with a couple guys flying them already.. they say the same thing. Best Mini out there now, hands down.

davide.pasq

hi guys, i've the mini edge too!
but i pointed to max power, not to a light airframe
my set up is this:
hacker a30 16m
lipotech 30A esc
hs55 all around
tp 3s 2100
i'll run an apc 10x4,7 or 11x3,8 on it
it has about 350 W !!!
[sm=lol.gif]

TManiaci

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Davide,

That's awesome, 350 watts will be sick power. What's the weight on that setup? Have you flown it yet? Give us a report!

davide.pasq

i haven't flown it yet because i'm stil waiting for the esc....
and haven't wheighted it yet...
but it will be around 600g, which are about 21 oz...

tylerman

Well, I got the build started today.

Got the Ailerons all set up on both wings with the Dymond D47 servos. I used a smaller rod than was supplied (1/32") which fits nicely, and put micro clips instead of the big clamps. The rod is a bit flexible, and can buckle under extreme load, so I may splice in a CF pushrod. I'm getting HUGE throws with the rod in the last hole of the control horn, so I'm pleased with the geometry. I'm using small Dubro pinned hinges all around. Really frees up the throws nice. Before installing, I dip the hinge pin-line is hot petroleum jelly to seal them and protect them from the CA, works great.

Decided to strengthen the elevator Connection with a couple small CF rods. It really looked like a breaking point to me. I simply laid the elevator flat on the table and match-drilled thru the hardwood connector into the elevator. This also make them dead flat with each other when you hinge 'em up on the plane.

TManiaci

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oops ... My son (tylerman) was logged in on my computer. That last post was mine.

Elevator and rudder done, but the 1/32" rod is too thin and buckles when pushing, so I'll make CF rods tomorrow and put up a shot of that assembly. Turning out really nice so far. The kit is very nice, everything fits together very well. My only beef so far is the screws for the control horns are much too long, and will pierce thru the other side quite a bit if you use them as-is. I had to cut them down to 1/2 the length, didn't have any real short dinky screws like that around.

So, started on the motor mount. Took a sheet of 3/32" ply, and laminated 0.014 CF sheeting on both sides with thick CA painted evenly. Cut out a disk with a 1-3/4" diameter hole saw, just right. Used the back-mount plate as a template to get all the holes located, and added three cooling holes as well.

I decided to make the mound round on this one. I will fit up inside the cowl best this way.

TManiaci

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Put together the factory motor mount and hung it on the plane. Use thick CA in just a few key places to make it hold together and stay put. After some pondering of the cowl offset, I needed to get the motor mount back a bit, so I used an AXI 2208/34, and screwed it in from behind to hang it on the firewall. Turns out that boss on the back of the motor fit in the hole on the firewall perfectly, so it's centered exactly.

Now I mounted up the new CF laminated mount on the AXI 2208, and I'm ready to figure out the routing of the CF struts. I'll have to carve, drill and whittle the path of the CF rods to the bulkhead, but all that get's busted off later anyway. So, as long as I maintain motor position, I can trash the complex frame.

Right now, I'm contemplating the landing gear problems I have heard about, so I'm thinking I'll integrate a small secondary bulkhead to reinforce the landing gear plate, and pierce it with the lower CF rods for the motor mount to tie it all together. I'll see how that goes tomorrow.

GoeKeli

My Feedback: (18)

T-man, very nice of you to depart with this information. That is a great way to get the exact geometry of the original mount. Have you weighted both mounts? What is the weight saving? I'm over at RCG all the time and have read both threads on the extra and edge. I plan on getting both but not sure on powersystems etc. You coming to the AMA show next weekend? If you can make this plane 17oz it should rock. It might be nice to make one real light for less or no wind conditions and a heavier overpowered for windy weather.
THe fit and finish of these fliton planes and now with the price lower on these 2, make it a no-brainer to get them.
I can't build this good.
The gear plate is a glass jaw. How about a flat carbon spanner and 45's on the sides? The first landing my friend did broke it, I landed it first without but really really let it down easy.

Joe Kelley

TManiaci

My Feedback: (6)

Thanks Joe,

I like to take my time and do it right. The build is half the fun for me. Love to fly too, but there's aways wind or work in the way. Building doesn't depend on weather or daylight.

I was planning on attending the convention, but I have knee surgery scheduled for Wednesday. Don't think the boss-lady is gonna let me go while I am healing. Bummer.

I did weigh all the origonal parts of the mount, and it was well over an ounce. I'll weigh the new parts before I glue it all up. I am saving the weight of the motor reverse mount kit too, so the savings includes that too. I am guessing there is at least and ounce savings with all this effort. We'll get hard numbers.

Yea, I read those threads on RCG. I'll take lightweight measures to make my LG mount real strong. I've got an idea that may be easy and strong. The LG mount on this bird is hanging in balsa, that's pretty cheesy. We'll fix that.

TManiaci

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Well, got the CF tubes all routed into the bulkhead.

TManiaci

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Glued 'em up with thick CA and cut off all the old ply mountings...

The origonal ply mounts, and the outrunner reversing kit weighs in at 18 grams. The new Mount Plate was under 2 grams, and the CF tubes were another 5 grams. So, saved around 12 grams (near 1/2 oz) with the new CF super-mount.

TManiaci

My Feedback: (6)

And here it is... this thing is so strong I still can't beleive it. You can't twist it at all, and there is no lateral play at all. I think I overbuilt it. I think the 4 mm diameter tubes could be far lighter, maybe 3 mm would be just right. Should take a beating in style.

GoeKeli

My Feedback: (18)

Tman, thats a fricken piece of artwork! Not to be nit-picky but those connectors you are using on the motor to esc are heavy. I have soldered mine before to loose weight.
Great work!

Joe

tashley

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Nice work! Looks just like a common mounting technique used on most small planes.

TManiaci

My Feedback: (6)

Thanks Joe. It did turn out pretty nice. A little sloppy on the glue, but it wi "git 'er done".

Yea, I hear what you are saying. I use those 3 mm heavy duty connectors on all my setups so I can swap hardware around if necessary. They are a bit heavy, I give you that, but I run some of these rigs at ~26-27 amps, and I've had issues with bad contacts where it has fried ESC's and ruined motors due to poor connections. The light (cheap) "formed" shell connectors just don't provide solid high-current connections. So, I went hunting for a GOOD motor connector and found these from MPI, solid brass with steel spring rings on the female to keep them clamped on the post. Bought enough to change out all the e-powered toys for my son, myself and my Father-in-Laws planes. You're right, there is probably a few grams to save there, and if I really get despirate, I'll hardwire them. I'll weigh a spare set to see just how much I could save... maybe it is significant. I hate to hardwaire, but for 1/4 oz or more I would probably do it...

Sorry for rambling about connectors...

TManiaci

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Thanks Tom... exactly, that's where the motor mounting idea comes from (real aircraft). Simple, very light and very strong.

TManiaci

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Well, I am a little bummed. I took the plane, and all the goodies that are left to mount (ESC, Lipo, Rx, Spinner, Prop, Landing Gear, etc.) and threw it all on the scale. Damn... 19.2 oz's AUW. Not even close to the 17 oz target. I thought the plane was heavy out of the box. The specs say 9.8 oz's without gear... mine was about 12 oz's out of the box. I guess I got a pig to start with. Bummer. We saw this on other planes where many were building, and we saw the basic bird weight varies considerably due to significant balsa density variations.

I'll finish it with the light motor setup and see how it flies, but it's probably going to get bumped up to the AXI 2808/24 and 3S 2100 mAH rigging to get good vertical performance. Under 20 oz's is pretty light, but it will take at least 220 watts to get this bird to really work, and the AXI 2212/20 is only good for something less than 200 watts pushing it. Maybe I'll run my 3S 1800 mAH 12C and prop for 21 amps, see how hot the motor gets after hard running. The 1800 is an extra 12 grams, pushing it up to near 20 oz's AUW.

TManiaci

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Well, working on the Edge between naps, just had knee surgey.

Made the CF pushrods for the tailfeathers. They are 2 mm rods, with the 0.030" wires at either end, shrink tube sleeve and wicked in thin CA.

Also put on a steerable tailwheel. It's a super light one I found at Dymond Modelsports, imported from Germany. It weighs less than 1 gram, so I went ahead an used it.

Getting close. Needs decals and electroncs mounted. Working on a hatch latch to avoid the screws on the sides, hate all that wrench work to change batteries. Still need to finish the LG reinforcements, have a good plan going, will finish that soon.