F4's vs Mig21's....GREAT show!!!!
12-02-2006, 03:02 AM
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F4's vs Mig21's....GREAT show!!!!
I just finished watching another wonderful episode of the Vietnam air wars between the mighty F4 Phantom and the highly maneuverable Mig 21. The F4 had the advantage of higher power, more missiles, two pilots and their training. The Migs had the light weight, better maneuverability and...well that's it. It seems that the Mig pilots (almost always two Migs flying together) would dump their wing man the second the F4 engaged them. On the other hand, the FOUR F4's would stay together all the time and never leave their wing man...remember TOP GUN when Tom cruise left his wing man??? (by the way, Tom flys a full size P51 in real life, he is the man!!). The kill ratio was about two Migs to one F4 (it makes sense statistically actually). Great dog fighting at its best.....Watch it if you can!!!
We need more F4 ARF's [8D].
We need more F4 ARF's [8D].
12-02-2006, 09:42 AM
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RE: F4's vs Mig21's....GREAT show!!!!
Yea, that dogfight show is pretty cool, heres the orginal F-4 "550" which Dan Cherry flew, being restored right now.
12-02-2006, 10:11 AM
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RE: F4's vs Mig21's....GREAT show!!!!
SEEN IT LAST NIGHT ON THE HISTORY CHANNEL, I AGREE IT WAS VERY GOOD .
AFTER ALL THOSE MISSLES THAT WERE FIRED AND MISSED IS ANOTHER REASON WHY THE F-4 SHOULD HAVE BEEN FITTED WITH GUNS FROM THE GET GO......
AFTER ALL THOSE MISSLES THAT WERE FIRED AND MISSED IS ANOTHER REASON WHY THE F-4 SHOULD HAVE BEEN FITTED WITH GUNS FROM THE GET GO......
12-02-2006, 03:01 PM
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RE: F4's vs Mig21's....GREAT show!!!!
There is also more F4 action in a past episode, called "Air Ambush". This show is great. I'm glad they've got the Vets invovled describing the events that took place.
12-02-2006, 09:05 PM
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RE: F4's vs Mig21's....GREAT show!!!!
I lived in Massachussetts back in the 80's and I knew a bunch of people who worked at Raytheon, Mass.... They make a lot of electronics for the missile controls. I heard horror stories from them regarding the huge failure rates they were having at the factory. May be it was a tough time for Raytheon in those days!!!!
12-02-2006, 09:09 PM
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RE: F4's vs Mig21's....GREAT show!!!!
don't feel bad amigo. it's easy to squeeze one off before you should. too bad they didn't have guns until late, I guarantee those old timers would have had a better kill ratio. must've been a pretty stinking feeling...slow, low and out of missles. yikes.
ORIGINAL: Vincent
Just watched the F4 episode, frustrating to see so many misfires with the aim7`s...Arghhh
V..
Just watched the F4 episode, frustrating to see so many misfires with the aim7`s...Arghhh
V..
12-02-2006, 09:30 PM
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RE: F4's vs Mig21's....GREAT show!!!!
No doubt, dogfights are awesome on the HC. The F4 reallly is growing on me.
Thanks for your posts guys. Great photo Skymac!
Joe
Thanks for your posts guys. Great photo Skymac!
Joe
12-02-2006, 10:54 PM
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RE: F4's vs Mig21's....GREAT show!!!!
"Hell over Hanoi" on the History Channel was what I have been waiting for a long time! General Dan Cherry and Fred "Fredo" Olmstead made history on April 16th 1972 shooting down those MiG 21's. At 150 pounds per minute fuel "burn off" rate it would be a heck of a ride watching those fuel tanks go dry.
It was an honor to meet General Dan Cherry at BlueGrass Jet Jam this year and hear of his miraculous stories. I enjoy seeing and talking with Veterans like General Cherry as much as flying my Phantom. I look forward to meeting him again next June. I hope to see more Phantoms and MiGs at Jet Events next year. It's alot of fun to play with our toys but lets not forget what the Veterans fought for................Our Freedom!
-Patrick
It was an honor to meet General Dan Cherry at BlueGrass Jet Jam this year and hear of his miraculous stories. I enjoy seeing and talking with Veterans like General Cherry as much as flying my Phantom. I look forward to meeting him again next June. I hope to see more Phantoms and MiGs at Jet Events next year. It's alot of fun to play with our toys but lets not forget what the Veterans fought for................Our Freedom!
-Patrick
12-02-2006, 11:34 PM
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RE: F4's vs Mig21's....GREAT show!!!!
Allied MiG 21's. At 150 pounds per minute fuel "burn off" rate it would be a heck of a ride wondering where the next B-52 was in place ready to refuel.
12-03-2006, 07:40 AM
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RE: F4's vs Mig21's....GREAT show!!!!
[quote]ORIGINAL: yeahbaby
d I guarantee those old timers would have had a better kill ratio. must've been a pretty stinking feeling...slow, low and out of missles. yikes.
Watch who you call an "old timer"! The biggest problem we had with the Mig-21's was seeing them since the front-on profile is just about zip. They would usually come up fast behind us, hose off a couple of missiles and head for the dirt and back to base. Most of the time Red Crown (off shore radar ship) would see them pop up and warn us that "Black Bandits" were attacking, black being the code name for Mig-21's.
Oh yeah, for most of the war their airfields were off limits for us to hit - now there's some great tactics.
Craig
d I guarantee those old timers would have had a better kill ratio. must've been a pretty stinking feeling...slow, low and out of missles. yikes.
Watch who you call an "old timer"! The biggest problem we had with the Mig-21's was seeing them since the front-on profile is just about zip. They would usually come up fast behind us, hose off a couple of missiles and head for the dirt and back to base. Most of the time Red Crown (off shore radar ship) would see them pop up and warn us that "Black Bandits" were attacking, black being the code name for Mig-21's.
Oh yeah, for most of the war their airfields were off limits for us to hit - now there's some great tactics.
Craig
12-03-2006, 08:09 AM
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RE: F4's vs Mig21's....GREAT show!!!!
Patrick,
Dan still talks about you guys and your F-4, he really enjoyed coming out, this year I believe he is going to stick around longer. If anyone is ever interested in doing an F-4 in those colors, hit me up, im pretty much at the airport everyday and I have a pretty good camera.
Dan still talks about you guys and your F-4, he really enjoyed coming out, this year I believe he is going to stick around longer. If anyone is ever interested in doing an F-4 in those colors, hit me up, im pretty much at the airport everyday and I have a pretty good camera.
12-03-2006, 10:20 AM
#19
RE: F4's vs Mig21's....GREAT show!!!!
aint nothin' like trying to hang wallpaper with one hand, eh? my hats off to some of the best fighter jocks of the century........................................... .................old timer. LOL
[quote]ORIGINAL: CraigG
[quote]ORIGINAL: CraigG
ORIGINAL: yeahbaby
d I guarantee those old timers would have had a better kill ratio. must've been a pretty stinking feeling...slow, low and out of missles. yikes.
Watch who you call an "old timer"! The biggest problem we had with the Mig-21's was seeing them since the front-on profile is just about zip. They would usually come up fast behind us, hose off a couple of missiles and head for the dirt and back to base. Most of the time Red Crown (off shore radar ship) would see them pop up and warn us that "Black Bandits" were attacking, black being the code name for Mig-21's.
Oh yeah, for most of the war their airfields were off limits for us to hit - now there's some great tactics.
Craig
d I guarantee those old timers would have had a better kill ratio. must've been a pretty stinking feeling...slow, low and out of missles. yikes.
Watch who you call an "old timer"! The biggest problem we had with the Mig-21's was seeing them since the front-on profile is just about zip. They would usually come up fast behind us, hose off a couple of missiles and head for the dirt and back to base. Most of the time Red Crown (off shore radar ship) would see them pop up and warn us that "Black Bandits" were attacking, black being the code name for Mig-21's.
Oh yeah, for most of the war their airfields were off limits for us to hit - now there's some great tactics.
Craig
