Aruba

Hello,
I'm breaking in my ZDZ 80 but it doesn,t want to idle.
How long should I expect to run it before it will idle.
What do you guys have your needles set at?
I,m running 97 octane gas and blendzall Castro synthetic blend(could not find any oil for air cooled engines)
Thanks,

John

beedriver

John,
My ZDZ was set very sloppy at idle from the factory. I hope that you ran a gallon of petrol based oil mix at 40:1 through the engine before switching to the synthetic!!!!! If not, do it now. if you have, try closing down the low speed screw an eighth of a turn at a time till you get a consistant idle. You may also want to check the amount of advance set on the pick up. It should be 6mm +0.5-0 for initial runs. Is the engine in a plane. And if so is it cowled and baffled properly? The ZDZ's run very hot, especially when new and REQUIRE baffles. Patience and strict adhearance to the break-in procedure are esential. Check with your dealer or give Mike Dooley at RCShowcase a call. He has been very helpful with any questions I have had with the ZDZ line.

Diablo-RCU

My Feedback: (1)

Baffles? We don't need no steenking baffles.
Seriously, I've seen about 10 different ZDZ motor installations - none with baffles, and no overheating problems. Most of them were singles with the head and some of the cylinder poking out the bottom of the cowl. One 80-twin in a H9 Extra.

shawnkappner

My Feedback: (40)

I have just over a gallon of fuel through mine and I would say I have average or above average idle on mine.

I started and will continue using Lawnboy 32:1 with premium (97 octane) gas. The best thing about this is I use the same stuff in my Lawnboy lawnmower:-)

Keep everything at the factory settings while running the first couple tanks through. Run at a low RPM for a couple minutes then about 1/2 throttle for a couple minutes and then back down to let the motor cool down again. Slowly increase the minutes and RPMS between cool down periods. I only did this for 2 tanks of fuel.

High needle - I ran the motor to full throttle (with 2 people holding on to the plane) and leaned out the top end until max RPM was reached and then backed off 100 - 200 RPM.

***Low needle - Mine was set very rich! Keep leaning it out until you hear a slight gasp when going from idle to full throttle. If you don't hear the gasp KEEP GOING LEANER. Then turn the needle about 1/8th turn to richen it up after you hear it and you should be all set. Your mid range should be VERY crisp and high end will get stronger and stronger. It should be just that easy.

Just make sure you turn the high end needle setting down about 100 - 200 RPM from your maximum RPM and you should be plenty safe. I have gained 500 RPMs already and I have only a gallon through mine - if that. Im turning a Menz 26X10 prop at 6300 (I can lean it out to 6400). I live in in Cincinnati, Ohio (not a high altitude) so these RPM ranges should be attainable.

I have mine on a H9 Cap and I love the combo.

Diablo-RCU

My Feedback: (1)

Lawnboy oil is a big no no in ZDZ motors. That's the word from RCS (David Garrison). They want you to use Penzoil during break-in. A few years ago, they had problems when customers used Lawnboy oil. I believe the motors would burn up from stuck rings. I remember the warning on the GSAL list.

Yes, I know that some other engine manufacturers recommend Lawnboy during break-in......but ZDZ isn't one of them.

shawnkappner

My Feedback: (40)

I did a lot of homework on this before I put Lawnboy oil in my ZDZ. I spoke with several folks that researched oils and are using Lawnboy including several prominent advanced IMAC flyers. They are having great success with it with no adverse signs. Don't be scared of it. If you like it use it. Sorry Diablo but I disagree with you.

bpryor

My Feedback: (45)

Back to the idle problem. It came up in another ZDZ80 thread that some people were opening the throttle in the wrong direction after removing the stock arms. The throttle should open in a counter-clockwise direction. If it's opening the other way, that's your idle problem.

BTW, on the LawnBoy issue, if the manufacturer specifically calls out not to use it, I would think that they are saying that for a good reason. I wouldn't want to try and second guess the manufacturer on something this specific and this important. It's very possible the clearances, temperatures, or materials, on the ZDZ cause excessive deposits in the motor. I know a lot of well-known IMAC guys are using LawnBoy for break-in, specifically DA recommends it, but I for one, whether suggested by the manufacturer or not, I would never run a low-end petroleum oil in any two-stroke I cared about lasting a long time and not getting excessive carbon build up over time, which will cause increased heat and wear. If you want to pull the engine apart and clean these deposits off when the buildup gets excessive, there probably are no other detrimental affects to the engine, but I'm lazy and I have no desire to do that much maintenance on my motors. Since there are so many good high-end two stroke petroleum based oils available, I just can't see any reason to run LawnBoy. If it is true that the problem is that in time deposits build between the rings on the ZDZ's causing ring sticking, this can cause serious performance issues. BTW, I could be totally wrong about the quality of LawnBoy oil, but from my experiences with it, it is a very "dirty" oil.


Typically I only run a gallon or two through my new motors with petroleum base oil before switching to synthetic, which in this case, running LawnBoy for this tiny bit of gas is probably not going to cause any problems, but since ZDZ recommends running petroleum based oil for 10 gallons, I guarantee you'll have relatively significant deposit buildup after that time period if you're using LawnBoy instead of a high-end quality two stroke oil.

Diablo-RCU

My Feedback: (1)

Here ya go, from GSAL, the original post from Randy Villines representing ZDZ, from about 2 years ago.

We are shipping a pint of Penzoil with every new engine as of late. This is to get everyone started in the right direction. We are RECOMMENDING the use of Penzoil, NOT requiring it. Because of so many engines that have been returned "Ruined" by the use of Lawn Boy (or some other "ashless" oil) and/or the use of Synthetic oil for break-in, some sanity had to be made of the
warranty situation. Even when advised AGAINST the use of these oils, some people have just ignored the advice and have just used whatever they felt like using.
It goes like this: A customer buys a new engine, customer uses the wrong oil, customer ruins engine, customer returns engine for repair. Sometimes the returned engine has been "totaled" and must be replaced with a new one.
It was only recently that we began to ship engines with a notice enclosed warning the user to use only petroleum oil for the break-in, and in addition to that, a warning NOT to use Lawn Boy. Using anything other than a petroleum oil for break-in would void the warranty. Nothing was said about "you must use Penzoil." I hope this clears things up.

Randy

lewdfinger

Wait a sec. The FAQ on ZDZ's web site (http://www.zdz-modelmotor.cz/zdz/en/) says (and I quote):

How to break-in the engine

As we have found that many of our costumers do not know how to break-in the engine we have decided to attach this info to each engine instructions and publish it also on our website.


1. First three hours is neccessary to use fuel mixture 1:40 with full synthetic two stroke oil (more oil than for normal run)

2. Do not run the engine in maximum power during this period.

3. Max RPM in this period must be below 4000RPM

4. After this you can change the mixture to 1:50 and run the engine normally.

IF YOU WILL NOT FOLLOW THESE INSTRUCTIONS ENGINE CAN BE DAMAGED.

date: 4.7.2001, author: Michal Janousek
<---- END QUOTE--->

Where do you get 10 GALLONS from? RCShowcase's FAQ says petroleum-based for 6 hours, which from what I can tell is about 4 gallons maximum.

So what is it? Synthetic or petroleum? 3 hours or 6 hours?

Confused....

beedriver

Seems that they are changing their minds at ZDZ. I was told by instructions and by Mike Dooley at RCShowcase to run petrol based break-in oil at 40:1 for the first gallon, then synthetic at 40:1 for the next 2 to 3 gallons and then synthetic at 50:1 thereafter. No extended full throttle runs till at least 3 gallons. Wait till I get 6 to 7 gallon through it before I do a final tuning.
I'M SOOOOOO CONFUSED !!!!!
I gotta call these folks and get some clarification. Perhaps the break-in for my twin is different than for the single, but I don't think it would be T-H-A-T different.

shawnkappner

My Feedback: (40)

Talk about a 180 degree turnaround... If you read the engine manufactures instructions on a ZDZ it says not to run over 4000 RPM for the first 3 HOURS!!! and you MUST use 100% synthetic oil. Yet the only "legal" US ZDZ distributor (RCS) tells you to ignor that and use petrolium oil at 32:1 and God forbid you should use Lawnboy petrolium oil because it is sure to ruin your engine if you use it. I can understand your confusion.

When it comes to breaking in an engine just use some common sense and you will be fine. Use any good petrolium based oil like Penzoil or Lawnboy which is recommended by Fox, DA , 3W and many other flyers for a few gallons until you feel your motor has properly broken in. Don't run it lean or at max RPM during that time. Back off from max RPM 200 RPM and go fly. Then you can switch to a cleaner smoother synthetic like Amsoil or Redline or ???

Its working for me now and for many other flyers. Just type in the word "Lawnboy" into the RCU search under giant engines and you will see that with the exception of RC Showcase, the vast majority of folks as pleased as I am with this type of break in procedure. I will be switching over to Amsoil 2000 at 50:1 after I have finished burning my second gallon of premium gas mix with 32:1 Lawnboy.

It is odd that the good folks at RCS can call Lawnboy oil "low grade". I guess Fox, DA, and 3W like to recommend using lowgrade oil in their low grade engines

Unlike Diablo and Mr. Pryor who are never wrong, I am ALWAYS wrong. I know this is a fact because my wife says so...

bpryor

My Feedback: (45)

Hi shawnkappner,

Well I'm not quite sure where that came from. I have never said anyone has to follow my advice, or my opinions, they are just that, my opinions, just like yours are yours. People are free to follow whatever course they prefer. All I stated is what I do, and the reasons for it, and you obviously can do whatever you want to do. Before reading the rest of this, and so I don't have to preface everyone of my sentences with it, assume they all start out with "IMOH".

I don't happen to agree with using Lawnboy, but a lot of people do, and a lot of "big name" people recommend it, and anyone is obviously perfectly welcome to use it and I'm glad you've had good luck with it.

I was wrong about the time they recommend running petroleum based oil. The 10 hour number came from their statement that the engine's performance would increase noticably for the first ten hours. RCS's revised break-in procedures say to run 1 gallon of petroleum based oil, switch to synthetic at 40:1 for 5 more gallons, then change to a 50:1 ratio....unless of course you're running Amsoil 100:1.

I have heard of restrictive break in procedures as defined on the ZDZ site for many engines, but it's just not realistic, and not necessary(remember IMHO ). They state these conservative procedures to protect their warranty liability. I still recommend following the RCS recommended procedures as they seem realistic and reasonble. Typically the main thing you're trying to avoid is overheating the engine, which is what happens with a tight motor running at high revs, so what I do (this is only what I do, I am not telling anyone else to do it) is limit the runs at high RPM to very short bursts and never sustain high RPM until the engine is broken in....but this really isn't much of a restriction for me, since I rarely use more than half throttle, except for short periods where maneuvers require it.....but if your style of flying is full throttle fly bys or a lot of full throttle vertical runs you should curtail these activities until the engine is broken it. This probably also means you should probably avoid a lot of torque rolling for the first few gallons.