Nitro Fumes

Well, this isn't about which is better, that's just personal preference. I know racers that do both. I just do Nitro. But I did find out just how equal they really are in performance. Sure, in the past electrics couldn't keep up with nitros or run long enough, but batteries and motors sure have improved. At my local track we have a 2 wheel drive open class which is a mix of electric and nitros, mostly electrics. The nitros have been disappearing around here in 1/10 scale as a many of those drivers have moved up to 1/8 4WD nitro, that's why we mix the electric and nitro in 1/10 2WD. And I'm one of the Nitro 1/10 drivers.

So a few weeks ago when my Nitro truck (Losi XXX-NT AD2) was out of order because I had stripped the idler gear one of my friends lent me his 1/10 electric which was also a Losi, so it was essentially an electric version of my truck. It has a brushless motor in it so it was fast too. I don't know what kind as I am not at all knowledgeable about electrics. I had to alter my driving style a little bit as electric motors have different torque curves than nitro engines. Anyway I had good racing with it and the car didn't seem much slower than my nitro truck. Two weeks later at the next race after I fixed my truck I found out that the electric truck wasn't slower at all. My friend and I are both skillful drivers. We can drive a full race clean without crashing. I should add that when I race my Nitro against the Electrics I take one warm up lap and stop right behind everyone and bripp my throttle a little as the count down starts and I also like to let everyone else crash into the first corner while I cut a tight turn inside and pass most of them. So this particular race my friend and I were lined up on the inside with him in front. The start beep goes off and he gets a hole-shot (that torque curve difference) at the start. We both make it clean through the first turn. Anyway we ran lap after lap together like that. I got closer on the infield area and our driving was just getting tighter and tighter. We were having a great race together. So that is what proved to me just how equal they are. But his electric suddenly stopped 4 minutes into a 5 min. race. I'll stick with nitro. Most of the electrics seem to drop out for one reason or another. So I'll stick with Nitro.

We do have a small track and my truck really never reaches top speed either. So I don't really know which has a higher top speed but we sure can have equal racing together.

Access

Every track and club is different. The tracks in my city are predominantly electric, a typical 10-race rotation only one is nitro, and sometimes for novelty alone (not a serious race). It ultimately just comes down to what people are racing, what they're comfortable racing, what they've grown up on, etc. The skills and techniques, especially for off-road, are far different, a driver who was raised on nitros has to re-learn throttle control and acceleration out of the corners if he's to compete with seasoned drivers.

Reliability-wise, electric can be very good, but you have to know what you're doing. The technology to make it reliable, and to allow it to run side-by-side with the nitros (or even surpass them) has been there for the last several years, but the rules and the racing organizations (ie. ROAR) had designs to keep that technology off the track and keep electric relegated to a 'little sister' position next to nitro. It wasn't until the last year or two when most clubs started going by their own rules that ROAR's board turned over, the new board capitulated and allow the techs that they had made illegal just one year before.

Are you getting electric 1/8th scale 4wd buggy drivers yet?

Snipin_Willy

1/10 2wd nitro truck has been dead for many years in my area. 4-years ago I think there were 3 drivers. I stepped into 1/8 e-truggy, and now have a 1/8 e-buggy as well.
I know Arkansas had quite a few electric buggy and truggy drivers when I moved out last year around this time and it seems the popularity has about doubled from what I hear. Oklahoma on the other had is still mostly all nitro in the 1/8 scale competition (sad because all I run is 1/8 electric)

calvino

I guess it all varies what is personal choice. Some would love to just plug in and cruse for the 8-10 mins that the pack allows. I like nitros because of the smell... As for the local track, last time i was down there the nitro class was pretty big as well as 19T truck and defiantely slash (they had about 3 electric classes and 1 nitro, turnout was slow that day). I did see one guy with 2 e-converts but his driving was so bad it wouldn't have mattered if he was faster than the rest . I definitively know what you mean by nitro vs electric. I am borrowing a friends electric ST for racing and wow the brushed motor is a lot different than a nitro ever was. I have to remind my self to be smooth on the throttle not "punch punch".... . As for whats faster on your track, almost seems like the electric has the holeshot advantage because of all the torque it has, not to say that your nitro still cant keep up. Sometimes i wonder if running an electric on a smaller track is a better idea because of the torque of electrics being in the bottom end

Gex_61

I've been into the car part of the hobby for about 10 years now. I don't know the exact date, but I was racing in 2000, possibly late 1999. If I remember correctly, NiMh batteries were just getting popular then. The highest capacity batteries were 1500mah. They would allow you to run in a 5min race, barely. From then on, it has only been improving. I know that 4200mah batteries were around by 2005, probably earlier. I know that 19t motors were around then. That setup right there is enough to compete with the best of them on the track. People that haven't made the switch to Brushless motors and LiPo Batteries are still getting into podium positions in unlimited classes at large race events here. With Brushless motors and LiPo batteries, I am convinced that there is no limit to what they can do. I think electric has the upper hand in a straight line or on the track. I am pretty familiar with nitro too, I love racing with both types.

Electronics are plenty reliable, especially now.

I have a higher end Tekin speed control that was sold to me used when I started 10 years ago. It's unlimited; I'm using 4200mah batteries with 19t motors, and I've used down to a 15t motor with it. I’ve never had a single problem. Still using it today, it's in the drifter right now.

Here is a link to my first charger from 10 years ago- http://www.ehobbies.com/dyn4035.html It has a total of two buttons, charges at 1amp and 4amp, and was meant for NiCad batteries. I don't think it says anything about NiMh batteries in any of the descriptions. It worked for most of the 6 cell packs I had. I eventually replaced it with chargers that had more charging options. Now the lower charge rate works great for my mini batteries (2/3A cells). This charger just won't quite. I still use it daily to charge batteries and race on my backyard track.

The first brushless system I bought was a Castle Creations mamba for my 1/18 mini's. That evening at the beach was one of the most memorable moments I have. My dad and I did wheelies up and down the street with smiles on our faces, and then we were shocked when our batteries didn't die when they usually did, which was plenty long enough in the first place. These motors also ran ice cold; no worries about burning them up. We bought those about 3 years ago. I have an unbelievable amount of run time on that motor. Combined with my 1/18 RC's, it's the most convenient thing I have to take out and bash or race. With the backyard track, I drive daily. I just started having problems with my 6800kv motor about 2 months ago. I'm pretty sure it's a bearing problem; I could probably fix it and keep using it. Not bad at all, considering I didn't lift a finger to do maintenance all this time besides bearing oil. I've never had a brushed motor last the same amount of time. There is no comparison. The original mamba 25 speed control is still working too.

I have burned electronics up before, but that stuff will happen with anything. With price comparisons between the two now, I can afford to occasionally replace an ESC and keep running. Nitro engines don't last forever either. You can run a long time without changing a glow plug if you know what you're doing. You can also put a brand new plug in and have it go bad in the middle of an important race.

If we are talking electronics in general, nitro vehicles need radios, receivers, servos and batteries in order to run. You have to deal with all of that stuff. I think it's funny when people say you don't have to charge a nitro vehicle. Yes you still have to, kind of. 1/8 buggies and truggies need to have a healthy battery pack in order to get through a long main event. Strong servos pull a lot of juice. You also have to get fuel every so often, when an electric can run 30-45mins without stopping.

I think driving a nitro RC is a little more challenging. Maybe it's because I started with electric? I think it's partly because of the difference in how power is put to the wheels, and also because of the added weight a nitro has. I feel like I have to be a little more cautious when cornering because it is very easy to spin the tires and lose control. With an electric, I feel like I have more control. The ESC makes everything smooth and consistent. An electric seems to have more tolerance; you can push them harder.

Mufasa_719

My very First car was an old Tamiya somthing many moons ago then I got out of the hobby. Then I got a Bolink Sport 2k an LRP runner esc and a silver can motor. It was cool (at the time) running 4 1/2 min on my 1200 Nicd batts. But when I got back in the hobby I got a savage. Then I was hooked for good. I was all about the nitro. "O man nitro is so much better then electro" and so on and so forth. After a while, $35 a gal for nitro $8 a glow plug, cold starting, breaking pull starters, and all the tuning every time the weather changes I was really starting to lose intrest in the hobby all together. Then a got an rc18t, with a Megatech 6600 brushless and a 1600 nmah. 15 min runtimes so I was starting to get back in it. Then I got a slash with a MM 6900. The simple plug and play really fired me up in the hobby. then I went back to nitro and the same thing happened again. So when I got my Pede (bone stock) It put a smile on my face every time. So I am not one to say Nitro sux. I still like it, the smells and sounds are awesome but my personal prefrence just comes down to electro. With the advancement of brushless and lipo getting 30 to 45 min runtime. Why the heck not, right! I think brushless is the reason I got into electro for the almost no maintence part of it.

TIGER76

Lots of good info here in terms of speed wise it seems electrics have caught up with and overtaken nitro nowadays,for racing i still think electric still has the advantage for instant power to nitro as they dont need to build up power and as runtimes ive seen people pit in and refill several times for fuel while lipo owners carry on in 30mins races.

Both have there advantages some love the smell and noise of nitro and others like the power and easiness of electric.

Access

http://web.archive.org/web/200010082....castlerc.com/
http://web.archive.org/web/200010181...om/dragon.html

http://web.archive.org/web/http://castlecreations.com/
(follow the Sep. 29, 2000 link)

See in 2000 brushless was already in use by the rest-of-world (ie. planes, helis, etc.) and while LiPo was still new back then, by 2002/2003 it was starting to filter in. Not to mention in 2003 you had the introduction of one of the first designed-for-trucks brushless systems (after having been in development for over a year).

http://web.archive.org/web/200302040...com/index.html

The Trucks could have been near this level 8 years ago if people / organizations had just welcomed the new technology instead of fought it. Race-proven technology was available 6 years ago it was just quickly made illegal and hence it never saw the track. Fortunately today I think electric ground-vehicle RC is even with the rest of the hobby and there is no real turning back, only moving forward from here. Vehicles will continue to get bigger, better, performance will continue to improve, events like the ISC will push the limits of what can be done or what is accepted as 'possible'. As far as racing, 1/8th scale 4wd E-buggys are still pretty expensive right now but in a year or two you might see brushless RTRs of the same for under $400.

Nitro Fumes

I first got started in this hobby in 1983 with an Associated RC 500, them moved to a Serpent Excell in 1988. It was a 1/8 scale on road gas car. (we called it gas back then, not nitro). Electrics back then didn't seem too far off from being toy like. I started out racing too. So the new club I belonged to also did winter racing indoors on carpet. They were 1/12 scale, 4 cell cars. We ran 8 min. races. We used 1200 mah NiCads. We just barely milked out 8 min. too. You usually could run one extra lap. But I found electrics to be a pain in the butt to keep running well. That was even before ESC's. I did get one of the first ESC's too when it was new technology.

Funny though, from what I said in my initial post about running my Losi nitro truck against the electrics is this. You see, when we were all running nitro trucks I usually waited to be one of the last guys to start up because there was always somebody having trouble getting started or some other problem that made him late to the line. So we would have to take more warm up laps and even have to top off the fuel tank when the late comer finally made it to the line. Now that I've been running against the electrics all they have to do is switch on and place them at the line. Then I start and do my warm up lap. When I get closer to the line I just tell the "starter" to start the count down and then I don't have to sit for too long bripping my throttle for the start of the race.

Dan H

I started in the hobby in '97 or '98. Back then, electric racing was a lot of money. I remember you would have to pay like $80 for a high end 1700mah matched NICD unassembled cells. You would need like a minimum three packs per race day. And these cells would no longer be "compeitive" after 6 months from wear. Plus they required so much maintenance. Who remembers discharge trays? With lipos, you can show up to the track with a single 5000mah lipo, and have enough run time for two qualifiers and the main. Back then, high end modified brushed motors were like $55 and you had to cut the comm every few runs and replace the brushes. Now, you never have to open up a brushless motor except to maybe clean the bearings once a year.

I ditched electrics in 2000 or 2001 and went all nitro. Nitro was cheaper in the long run, it was faster, and I couldn't resist the run time. Was pretty much nearly all nitro until 2008, although I was less active in the hobby during those times. Nitro doesn't really have an advantage now except for sound and noise. Battery technology is still increasing, the piston engine is not. Now I'm back into electric and having more fun than ever. Thank god for brushless and lipo.

Also, the nitro classes keep shrinking and the electric class is growing so fast in my area.

Gex_61

I didn't know all of that. I mostly only paid attention to what was happening at my track. I'll have to do more research when I get a chance.

I also remember when 1/8 buggy got popular. I had never seen one before. One day the hobby shop was full of boxes. The next race day, there was already a full heat for this class. There were more and more people in this class every week. Everyone who came to the races would stop what they were doing to watch this class. You had to be 18+ to turn marshal. I have no idea what company it was that came out with those buggies, but they were fast and durable. The class was total chaos. Everyone seemed to be at full throttle, bouncing off the walls and other cars.

If nitro does disappear, 1/8 buggies will be the last thing to go. I don't see this class ever losing its popularity.

Access

1/8th buggies, rather than disappearing, the nitros will just be replaced by electrics.

Where I live the off-road is very much 'class of the month'. When I was starting out, the rage in nitro was 1/8th scale big block monster trucks. Then it went to 1/8th scale 4wd buggies and finally a hybrid short-course/truggy/muggy class that came and then faded away faster than anyone could predict. Now the buggies are back, but a truggy class seems to be gaining traction. Classes tend to lack any real staying power year-to-year, and in some cases the 'lifetime' of a class is only 3-4 months.

Electrics went from 1/10th STs to 1/10th buggys, a short foray into 1/10th 4wd buggies, than back to STs with a secondary 1/18th 4wd class, and then got mixed up a bit until short course trucks. Then came the electric 1/8th scale monster trucks, which you see during practice but they rarely race, and you're starting to see elecric 1/8th scale 4wd buggies that can easily compete with the nitros in their own class.

On-road on the other hand is completely dominated by electrics. Nitro races are increasingly rare.

"Nitro doesn't really have an advantage now except for sound and noise."
Last I checked neither one of these things wins races. Unless your local track is holding 'loudest truck' contests, I don't see how it gives you an advantage except maybe for the 'shock and awe' factor. I remember in paintball when we first discovered loudeners (special devices on the end of the barrel that makes your gun louder), once the novelty wore off they were gone as quickly as they had showed up. We're seeing more and more mixed classes (ie. 1/8th scale 4wd buggy) where many tracks are running nitro and electric side-by-side and in the end racers are going to select the platform that is most advantageous to them on the track, aesthetics aside.

Dan H

Obviously, I didn't mean it in a way as it will offer an advantage on the race track. Duh! There are still many die-hard nitro enthusiasts that will stick to nitro for the realism. Think of it in a way of people upgrading their old cars and using carbs instead of electronic fuel injection.

jkdv8

My Feedback: (1)

how bout gas? dont discriminate.

lez1troubles

BIG-BOYZ TOYZ HAVE NITRO MOTORS AND BIG-GIRLS TOYS HAVE ELECTRIC:-)

HJJFFFAA

Fix'd.

lez1troubles

HJJFFFAA, grow up.

Dan H

Sounds like you can use your own advice.

46u

My Feedback: (3)

To me eclectic is like watching a move with the sound turned off. Yes they are fast instant power but I much prefer nitro and gassers. It is just personal preference and they are all good.