Aero65

My Feedback: (2)

Hello R/C Universe

It seems lately that some of the mfg's and their reps are a little more hesitant to answer some questions on this forum, due to their posts being deleted for being over the "line" as far as the forum rules go. I read other R/C forums on the net and it seems anything go's there and there is allot more information being passed around. Many times the mfg's and the Reps are the ones with the answers.

1. For instance if a mfg has a product that would solve a problem someone is having, he according to the rules could give advice on how to solve it, but if he says he has X product, the post is subject to deletion.

2. If the problem is with a product then that is OK for a mfg to expound on, But that still leaves the issue that someone might not even know that product x exists, and due to the forum rules he / she might never know.

3. I for one do not always have the time to read all the forums, and only sometimes I only read the Jet forum. I missed 2 turbine engine release announcements for a couple of weeks this way. Is their a way for mfg's to at least post something that says that there is a new announcement for the Jet community to look at?

I agree regarding not having the forum turn into a free advertising area for mfg's. But is there a way to let the mfg's relay the information to the users of rcuniverse?

I do understand that RCuniverse is a for profit entity but if the users begin to feel that there is too much Censorship on the forum, they may begin to look elsewhere for information they cannot get here; and that would be a shame, since RCuniverse seems to have such a great following of modeler's.

Darryl Usher

I think your right! As a small seller of jet parts I no longer answer.
If there is a e-mail address I will answer. It is too bad the questions go unanswered but when a jetcat question is call for and all the others add their 2 cents I see the problem.
www.acsip.com/~dgu
Darryl Usher

John Redman

My Feedback: (8)

Aero 65,

I understand what you are saying and at times it can be quite frustrating. The moderators in this forum try thier best to maintain the rules as set forth from RCU. They do a very, very good job at it as well. There are a couple of reps who post here who have pushed the boundaries morre than we can count.

I will say that after reading other forums I have found that it is normal for reps and manufacturers to post whatever they like to whenever they like to. This falls upon the moderators of the forum it is listed in. Our moderators FOLLOW the rules, other seem to not really care. I have to admit that the following of the rules stinks but they are there for reasons to maintain RCU as it is. If all moderators of all forums followed the rules, life would be more consistent all the way around.

I have noticed on a number of occassions where a giant scale aircraft/jet manufacturer from Kentucky post prices and specials in the scale forum without reservation and the moderator doesn't delete the post. He knows if he post's here it will get slammed.

What do we do? Well I guess we live by the same rules we teach and instill in our children. We need to understand that life isn't fair and we need to play by the rules. I have often wondered how my child has felt when something like this has come to my attention and I tell him that is just the way it is. Definitely tough to deal with and very frustrating as well.

To our moderators; please continue the way you have, your job is about the most unrewarding, frustrating job a person could have and it comers with teh most unbelievable salary one could want: $00000000.00 a month. Thanks a bunch guys and keep up hte great work.

John Redman
Team BVM, Jet Cat USA

mvigod

The rules at RCU are in place to serve the members first and foremost. They have been honed over the last 16 months to where they are today. The success of RCU is a testament to the fact that the rules we apply here are in fact working to the members benefit ultimately otherwise people would go elsewhere. They don't because at RCU the information exists. Manufacturers CAN answer any direct questions which are asked of their products. They CANNOT promote their products in the user discussion forums though. This is in my opinion simple and clear.

You ask how can they get their message out. Well first we have a product and announcement forum strictly setup for such announcements. It is free. Second if they want to promote their business even further there are affordable advertising programs on RC Universe. What if they wanted to post an announcement in a magazine like RCM or MAN? Would those guys charge them for it? Of course they would. Or they could get on a waiting list which could take 3 months to a year (or never) and send them their announcement and hope it shows up in the text someplace. Good luck, right?

The rules are applied to everyone the same. If somebody is getting preferential treatment simply notify me and I will respond to it. Double standards don't apply here. I've already lost advertisers and such over these principles and annoyed others. In the end my interest lies in serving you guys, the end user.

If I allow a manufacturer to post his announcements or promotions in the forums then the next guy will and so on. Then you have a slipperly slope of companies outdoing each other to promote in the forums through blatant ads or "announcements". It doesn't work. If those "other" free for all forums which have no censorship were so great everyone WOULD go there. Truth is only carefully moderated forums thrive.

If everyone wants to go to a forum where vendors post and promote at will then that is fine however I absolutely guarantee they will end up back here. This formula which only a select few have asked for does not work. RCU's current growth rate of 100 members per day and 3000 per month and 35,000 users tells the tale that for most we are doing something right.

Aero65

My Feedback: (2)

Thank you for the explanations, and comments

I just think that there is an issue that new information from mfg's is difficult to get. If we knew the product existed we might not be asking the question that pertains to it. I'm trying to say that this is a issue that might have a creative solution?

I agree John Redman the Moderators are just following the rules. They do have a thankless job and are efficient and courteous at what they do, as so far as I have experienced

What I'm at issue with is the rules. They do not allow for mfg to answer peoples questions if they have to mention a product which has not been asked about in the thread

Mark I would like to thank you for creating / running RCuniverse it is a great place. I'm seeking a possible solution to a issue that I have with it. I agree the formula you have here is working, I do not think a free for all format is a good idea either. I'm just trying to make suggestions that might make it better, might not. That is for the people who run this site, and the public who use this site to determine.

I cannot myself think of a way that it could be fair to all, that is why I posted this issue. There are many great minds out there in the RC universe land maybe some one has a better way?

I appreciate you letting threads like this to exist, if a true environment of Censorship was in place you would not let me ask questions like this. I thank you for your fairness.

fly4food18

My Feedback: (15)

Mr Administrator
I would like to make sure i understand this right. If I ask a direct question to a Rep they can answer me. If i have a problem with my plane and i ask them how to fix it and there is a simple part they can sell me they can't talk about it? I understand having to what you are trying to do but i am just asking where the line is, or is it a judgment call for the moderators. Thank you for your time and efforts for keeping this site going. It is the only site i get to every day or so.

Fly4food18

mvigod

Aero65 - I am all for creative solutions...I cranked my brain for awhile to find the answers and we honed various versions of the rules and so far this is the best happy medium we came up with. Granted it is not perfect (did I say that?) but it is the dog with the least fleas barring a better solution. I am open to suggestions should anybody have one...35,000 heads are much better than mine.

flyfood18 - there are a few scenarios that exist where a manufacturer could or could not answer you. If you asked what solution exists for heavy duty control system hardware it would be fine for members to chime in with their picks. On the other hand I would not want all the hardware makers to jump in to promote their solutions. In this example Great Planes, Dubro, Rocket City and so on could all chime in. That puts them in a position to have to one up each other. I think people put more value in users answers where they have no vested interest whatsoever in the answer. Any manufacturer will jump forward with their solution willingly for 2 possible reasons. One is that it fills the need and solves the problem. The second is that it makes them money. It is the 2nd motivation that produces the disconnect.

Think of it this way. Right now we have 35,000 users on RCU. Of those less than say 200-300 companies exist. Now one would think if a product existed which had a solution somebody out of the 35,000 would come forward and suggest it. It is far too difficult for a vendor to be impartial while suggesting their own products (unless they are offering them for free).

What that vendor CAN do if you post a question and they have a part which will solve your problem as in your example is send you a PM or email through the site. Sending a private message to you to solve your individual problem is far different from posting an answer/plug in the user forums. This makes it fair to those who do pay for advertising on RCU to support the site so it can exist for everyone to enjoy PLUS it is fair to every vendor who might have a competing product and does not post in the forums to "one up" that vendor with their solution.

fly4food18

My Feedback: (15)

Mr Administrator
Thank you for your reply. I understand this topic much better.

I would like thank you and all the moderators for your hard work on this site. It is the best RCsite.

Thank you
Brian Riffel

mvigod

Brian,

Thank you. Remember...RCU is always a work in progress. We always try to listen and if suggestions are made which we feel have a reasonably good chance to make RCU better we give it a try. If it doesn't work we can always try something else or go back to where we were.

Henpecked

Mark,
When you crank your brain does it hurt? Also, if it backfires- is this like an exploded aneurism? And finally; If I cant get mine started and need parts , can I ask the manufacturers a question just till I start up?
You guys are getting real serious -go crash some planes-it will let you forget about this. Mark-great job here at RCU .
Thanks sincerely Jim

mvigod

thanks Jim

Mark Turner

My Feedback: (29)

The product and announcement forum is a great part for posting updates, new products, etc.

And actually the part of PM'ing or e mail for a specific question/answer works pretty well for most cases. Several have PM'd me on a few D/F items I deal with.

I only wish I could afford the current advertising rates but untill then I'll stay with RC Report and Quiet Flyer Mag.

Thanks,
Mark
RT Models

Gordon Mc

My Feedback: (11)

I've kept out of this thread until now, in order to let Marc explain the overall reasoning for why the rules are the way they are, etc. That way you get to hear how things are supposed to be done and can contrast it with how we (the jet mods) are actually doing things to see if we're missing the mark and going overboard.

Since there is one point which has gone unanswered thusfar though, I'll pitch in on that topic. This has to do with how the commercial posting rules are more likely to be enforced here in the jets forum than in some of the other forums.

The rules are supposed to apply equally to all forums, and I agree with John in his assessment... The fact that I can make basically identical posts in two forums and have it removed in one but not in the other does make it hard for the members to understand what is allowed & what is not. BTW, it also makes it harder for the moderators because we have to explain why we're being the bad guys while those other guys are much more human

The jets forum used to be as 'laid back' as some others in terms of enforcing the commercial rules, partly because the old wording of the rules made it impossible to draw a clear line as to what was allowed & what was not, and partly because there weren't enough commercial posts being made, for it to be a major issue.

As RCU grew, the number of members that could be reached by a single post grew sufficiently that commercial posts became a much more attractive marketing tool for manufacturers, dealers etc, and so we started getting more commercial posts.

For some reason, the jets forum got substantially more than its fair share of these new commercial posts, and so we got to the problem stage before the others. It was also right here in the jets forum that some shady practices started, for pushing products & putting down competitor's products. It was also jet manufacturers who were among the first (if not the very first) to point out that there was no point in them continuing to pay for adverts (and thus pay for RCU's existence) if their competitors continued to be allowed to freely make commercial posts in the jets forum.

The fact that we were the forum that was attracting the most attention in terms of commercial posts, made us the forum that got the most attention when the rules got tightened up. (See http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...readid=113705, )

The other forums will probably catch up in time. We simply got the hightened attention first, because we were the first to have commercial posts reach the problem stage. Kinda like the squeaky wheel getting the oil first, I guess.

Regards,
Gordonn

mvigod

Gordon is correct. Also keep in mind that in some other forums we are working on beefing up coverage or training new moderators on what to do, how to do it and when to do it. RCU can be "fluid" at times and as such every forum won't be exactly the same at a single moment although it will be close. We have community moderators that roam all the forums to try and make sure things are orderly and fair.

One thing members don't often use enough is the "report post to moderator" feature. If you see a post which should be edited, moved, deleted or dealt with please inform us via that link. Reported posts are held in confidence and it is not "tattling" but rather a way that each member can ensure RCU remains enjoyable.

Aero65

My Feedback: (2)

Thank you Marc and Gordon

I appreciate the detail you are explaining the issue in, I for one have a better understanding of the difficulties at hand.

Keep up the good work!

rcuser006

My Feedback: (12)

Just tried to use it and got this error:

"There seems to have been a slight problem with the RCUniverse - The Ultimate RC Forum! database.
Please try again by pressing the refresh button in your browser.

An E-Mail has been dispatched to our Technical Staff, who you can also contact if the problem persists.

We apologise for any inconvenience."

mvigod

maverick,

if you don't navigate to a thread "naturally" (i.e. from the forum and then to the thread) then it will spawn this error as it needs to know what forum it is in. If you arrived at the thread via an email this is the likely cause of this. Try going to the thread through the forum it is in and notifying. It should work...I'm working on a fix for that "bug"

LTV_A7D

My Feedback: (2)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RCadmin

"Right now we have 35,000 users on RCU."

Aren't there 1,000,000+ members in the AMA? And so few people surf RCU? I've heard a statistic that 1/3 of Americans have a home computer. You'd think the number of "users" would be much greater...and this doesn't even include the tally for the rest of the world. What's up with this? I guess everyone's too busy flying!

Steve

I stand corrected!!!!!!!!!!! However, with 360,000,000 US Citizens only 178,000 tinker with RC products? What's wrong with everyone else!!!!

mvigod

Steve,

1,000,000 is off by about 825,000!

AMA is around 178,000 members if I recall correctly.

RCU has 35,000 registered users. We have another 15,000 or so unregistered "lurkers" who stop by. RCU is growing at about 3,000 users per month! At this pace we will fast approach AMA numbers plus I am working on some deals which may vastly accelerate our growth path

For reference I believe Model Airplane News has 70,000 subscribers. RCU has only been around a little over a year remember and is at half this already.

rcuser006

My Feedback: (12)

Yes, you are correct. I got to the post from an email notification.