RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

I sent the e-mail to OMP but I gues Mike is to bussy to answer it now. So maybe I can get the answer here - you read this formu 10 times a day, right

Here is my crazy idea. Looking around for planes I found OMP site with 80inch Edge 540. So here is what got me.

I have H9 Edge 540 (old 27%) 78inch span. The plane powered by Brison 2.4 flies very heavy as it has only 1000 sq inch. The other thing is, that I hate this one piece HUGE WING. I was going to replace this wing with something scratch built but still to many projects piled up on my desk. I asked WH if their wing from 84inch Edge would fit, but they can sell only as ARF and it just cost to much.

OMP Edge is available as a kit so maybe this is the way to go. This big wing (I can shorten it maybe by one rib to keep my Edge 78 inches wingspan) may actually fit my H9 Edge. I will need to modify the fuse to supoport two piece wing through a wing tube tho.

So here are my questions:

1. Can I buy just a wing kit from 80inch OMP Edge 540 (with plans to built it on)?
2. What would be the cost shipped to California (including wing tube and ailerons)?
3. How much this wing weights (the original H9 wing is 3lb)?

If this thing works I may actually also try to shorten it by another rib to fit it in Powerline Hobbies Edge 72 inch span. This little plane has only 800 sq inch wing area and would benefit from at least 1000+ sq inch. Powerline Hobbies dumped the plane (it's called discontinued) so no help from them.[:'(]

I know it may be crazy, but what the heck - it's always worth to ask.

RysiuM

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

1. Can I buy just a wing kit from 80inch OMP Edge 540 (with plans to built it on)?
Yes

2. What would be the cost shipped to California (including wing tube and ailerons)?
$75 - $10 shipping

3. How much this wing weights (the original H9 wing is 3lb)?
I don't my plane handy but prolly 1.5 lb or less.

Do you have pics of your plane so we can take a look of what we are dealing with?

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

Cool!!!

That's sounds much better than WH foam wing. How can I contact you?


This is old (discontinued model) H9 Edge 540 78inch wing span. It has one piece wing with ugly cut-in in the fuselage (makes the fuselage very weak here). I'm going to add side walls to the fuselage here and the mount the tube. The only question here is if the wing chord at the root in OMP Edge is to bei to fit between the cowl and the tail. What is the root and tip chord?

Pictures - hmm, let me see. This is not my plane, but the same H9 Edge, just to give you an idea - the ugly fuselage cut for the one piece wing:


and here how it looks from the top:



The other one (Powerline Hobbies) looks much better as it already has a wing tube design. The wing is very nice (very good aerodynamic) but the plane would do better 3D with the lower wingloading. Now it is over 30oz/sq in (it flies much batter than it looks like tho) and getting it down to 26 oz/sq in (wing 1000 inch) or even better to 24oz/sq (1100 inch wing) would be a great deal. For that wing I wouldn't need a tube as PLH already has one.

But the first priority is the H9 Edge. I like this plane a lot (I have a worm spt in my heart for it), but now I have to force myself to fly it. Not much fun.

I think I have enough building skills even to modify OMP wing to fit it in my planes.


RysiuM

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Im not sure of the inside root rib right now ... Mike will let you know tomorrow.

Also I see you mentioned that that wing was over 1000 Sq In and would benefit on the Edge. The OMP 80" wing is 1600 Sq In so I can already tell that's it's at least going to look pretty .... different. Even with taking out a rib section it will still prolly be over 1200 maybe 1300.

I'd like to watch you do this for sure! You can call me direct tomorrow to order number on website, use New York number. But you might want to wait for Mike to respond to this thread first. I'll make sure he looks at it tomorrow and gives you the numbers.

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

Looking at the picture I estimate: 23.5 inch chord at root, 16.5 inch chord at tip - am I right? This including ailerons.


If I'm right about the chord numbers, after removing 4 inches from the span at the root (to compensate for the fuselage width and the wingspan 78 inch) new root chord will be about 21inches. So total wing area will be about 1450 sq inches. I'm very fine with that

I'l call tomorrow morning (I mean California morning). For saving from misspelling I'll PM you addresses. Thanks a lot.

RysiuM

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Your also going to have to change the angle of the ribs to accomodate a tapered fuse a few degrees.

AFSalmon

My Feedback: (3)

OMP 80" Edge wing root is 24.8" including aileron. Tip is 15.25". Thickness at root is 4". I did see your email to me and was sure I responded????? Anyway, sounds like an interesting project. I always thought the H9 Edge was extremly heavy on the wing loading as well You need to be around 20 or less in my opinion. Maybe 21-22 for experienced pilots but any more than that and the planes get squirrly on low speeds. My honest opinion is to not use the OMP 80" wing for this plane unless you want to turn it into more of less a funfly style plane. Keep in mind the OMp wing is very thick, tons of surface area, and has flat built up ailerons. All great for the funfly designs but the H9 Edge is designed more for IMAC style flying. This requires a much different set of design parameters for the wing. Yes you could take the basic OMP Edge wing and modify heavily to work but it might be easier to just start from scratch. Either way I will be glad to help you along the way.

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

Thank you for the numbers. I was close. The same estimation gives me chord without ailerons 19.5" root and 13" tip. However the TE will be modified for airfoiled ailerons so I think my wing will be about 21 by 14.5.

Sorry, I didn't get it. But don't worry. I'm really happy with OMP service, support and communication. I've been looking for any help with my H9 Edge for months and now I'm blaming myself, that I didn't get to OMP sooner.

It was my first IMAC plane then, but now I know a little more. Now I don't want to buy any more planes made by H9. I now understend better why my plane is 'discontinued'.

Right now with wingloading around 32 it flies heavy. It does IMAC acrobatics but I can't push the envelope even a bit because it will snap in nasty way. This is the plane that tought me do big round loops (no square corners possible ) and land fast.

I could make a wing from scratch but converting OMP has many advantages:

1. Proven design. Fat big OMP wing flies 3D. I mean crazy 3D. This airfoil will make my H9 much more forgiven for stalling. OMP size wing (modified in TE part) will be perfect for H9 to get wingloading about 24oz/sq ft. It still will not be '3D crazy' like OMP Edge but at least will fly high alpha without nasty surprises.

2. Strong and light. I was not sure if I can design light wing that will be strong enough. OMP already did it. No brainer here.

3. Learning. I have built many planes but all of them were small scale (2 - 6 lb). Now I have big scale 100" span Wilga (tug plane) 15-20lb on my building board. I'm done with the fuselage, but the wing is still in front of me. Building OMP wing I will teach me to build big, light and strong wing. This experience I wil use cutting Wilga's wing. I don't trust plans, so I wanted to see first how 'big boys ' do it.

Thanks again, I will report the reslults on RCU in my thread [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=782157]Instruction for Hangar 9 Edge 540 (1.20) [/link]

RysiuM

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

Dion,

Did you ship the wing kit? I don't see any charges on my CC yet. Are the any problems? Let me know

RysiuM

AFSalmon

My Feedback: (3)

Uh, I know I was gone all last week but I think there was some miscommunication. I'll have to personally pack this order as the parts I'll have to dig out myself from old stock. I'll check with Dion or John to make sure they have your order correct.

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks Mike,

I called Dion Friday, but was to late for the day. Dion got all my info. I will confirm thet today. Just in case of any miscommunication, I wanted the wing kit (I mean all the wood parts and plans to built them on), the wing tube with sleves (the pieces that go inside the wing) PLUS additional piece of sleve (about 10 inches) that I will use inside my H9 Edge fuselage.

I'm very anxious to make this wing, as I tested new smoke system on H9 Edge (perry pump and remote valve) and it works great. So to carry additional pound of smoke fluid I need that wing.

RysiuM

AFSalmon

My Feedback: (3)

RysiuM, the kit went out last week so be looking for it. Keep us informed on this project as it sounds like a very interesting modification.

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

Thank you. I'm looking forward to it. 'Thanks to' that waiting time for the kit my old Kyosho CAP 232 got restored . This was fun project too as I got it a couple years ago form someone, who crashed it really bad (broken wing, missing front end). Now it looks better than ever. I wonder how it will fly.

I talked to my buddy who is the best 3D pilot around (40 years of flying) and I decided to make ailerons all the way to the fuse so the they would operate on prop wash.

I've never seen your kit (I mean I've seen the finished planes only) so I don't know how difficult would be to make this wing. So far what i've seen the fuse modification will be the easiest part. What I understand I will need to cut and change the TE if the OMP wing for triangular (airfoiled) ailerons. The rest shuld go as it is. I may also add CF stripes to top and bottom of spars (if they don't have any yet) as the wing will need to carry a couple pounds more than original OMP Edge 80.

RysiuM

AFSalmon

My Feedback: (3)

Well we're all here to help so don't hesitate to ask away as you press through this project.

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks, I will. The wing arrived yesterday and I couldn't stop myself from looking into it. I printed and read the instruction from attached CD (the wing building part) and it looks that I shouldn't have much problems with that.
The only surprise was, that the wing is not symmetrical - the top spar goes flat from one wing to another, but the bottom makes dihedral. I don't see a problem with that but maybe for the next wing I will order Yak 79. I will see how this wing works.

The original half span is 39 inch. My fuse is 8 inch so if I build by plans I will have 86 inch wingspan Edge. I'm quite hesitating to keep it at original 78 as I would have to shrink plans only by width keeping the length the same (same chord). And of course I would need to make new TE jig.
I didn't make my mind yet.

The mod I will do for sure is cutting about 1 inch of the TE of each rib so I can have bigger triangular ailerons. Otherwise the aileron would be less than 2 inches - not much for 3D. Of course I will need to buy wider balsa for TE (3/8 x 1) or laminate the provided 3/8 x 3/4 stock with additional 1/4 thick stripe.

Another good news is the wing tube is aluminum 22mm. It is exactly the same as my PowerLine Hobbies Edge. So if I make this wing right with identical mounting holes in the root rib I may be able to swap this wing to PLH Edge just for fun. Imagine that:
The original 23% Edge (72inch span) that weights 11.5 lb with 1450 sq inches instead of original 850 sq inches. It means only one: fun, fun, fun

Anyway for weight reducing I can do the same what I did with PLH and replace aluminum tube with CF from CST (with two layers of masking tape). It is 4 oz lighter.

It will be really funny project. I will start next week when I finish restoring Kyosho Cap 40 (it's almost done and I wanted to have it ready for Thursday - our next club meeting).

Thank you OMP guys.

RysiuM

AFSalmon

My Feedback: (3)

You are quite welcome. That is the correct type of wing for en Edge. I would bet if you look at the H9 wing it would be the same. Actually the airfoil is symmetrical so the terminology is "symmetrical wing" with a double taper. This means the trailing edge and underwing are tapered towards the tip. All Edge 540 wings should be this way. A yak 54 wing on the other hand is quad tapered meaning all four facets are tapered towards the tip.

Sounds like you have lots to think about. I'd recommend shortening the root side of the wing versus the tip. This would make it easier I'd think to retrofit into your fuselage and in my opinion offer a better performing wing for that setup.

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

What I ment was that the wing is not top-bottom symetrical (see the drawing below). I always thought that Edge has top and bottom at the same angle. But, I'm learning every day something new.


Then I would have to extrapolate the new root rib (and cut from plywood). I think I will keep OMP wing as it is making my plane a little bigger wingspan. It's only 4 inches on each side (10%) - nobody will notice . That's why I bought the kit to avoid the whole hassle of designing and making my own ribs.

I will start tracing the fuselage today. Then I will see how much I need to bend the root rib.

Kyosho Cap is done. I put it's data into RC G2 and if the real thing will fly like the one on the sim it should be nice scale acrobatc plane.
Modifying H9 fuselage will be quite easy comparing to the work I did on Cap. Cap went nose in (not me), and I had to rebuild the whole front section (firewall plus two formers) as the entire fuselage in front of the canopy was gone. Also ffter reparing the broken wing and patching punctured sheeting I was really proud of my covering job - the wing looks almost like new.

RysiuM

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

I traced the fuselage. The root rib easy flexes around H9 fuselage. A also cheched the position of the wing tube (based on CG). The wing tube wil go just in front of the third former (where the original cut for the wing starts). CG of my plane is 4 inch, new wing will be 5-1/2 (just on the spar). LE wil fit just behind the cowling and the bottom surface will be placed about 1 inch lower then the original wing.

And the measurments:
Root chord (including scale ailerons) = 21 inch
Tip chord (including scale ailerons) = 13-1/2 inch
Wingspan = 83 inch
Wing area = 1432 sq inch.

The 83 inches is from 5 inches of the fuse at the TE plus 78 inches of the OMP wing. I will place root rib the way it is bent so wing will be shorter than OMP at the spar and at the LE, but will be the same span at TE. I hope it sounds clear.

I'm working over 12 hours a day (bussy at the office) so not much time for fun left[:@]


RysiuM

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Well I'm glad things are underway. Really looking forward to your reports. Heck maybe Mike will create a new wing kit for those planes based on your mods???? Heck maybe even ARF OMP wings to fit H9 planes, I'm sure they would love that.

But hey ... after market mods is huge in this industry, espeically cars, boats and helis. Why not start a new trend?

AFSalmon

My Feedback: (3)

I don't think so Homey! Mikey got enough to do already. Heck I spend 8-10 hours a day doing this stuff for the Air Force now! UAVs rock! I barely have time to play with my own toys.

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

H9 Edge 78inch is discontinued and as everybody knows the lifespan of the plane is short. So every day the number if these models flying is smaller and smaller. It means without the new fuselages from the manufacturer the market for that wing is shrinking

And don't forget the fuselage mod. Seeing guys around thy would rather buy a new model instead of repairing the old one. Not many cheap guys like me around that would take a pile of junk and turn it into UAV

If everything works as planned this project may serve OMP as a piece of marketing BS rather than business opportunity

Honestly, I wouldn't buy this plane today. There are many other nice looking and much better flying aircrafts that size on the market. And one day when it's gone I hope at least the OMP wing survives so I can reuse it for another fun project.

RysiuM

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

Waiting for my dentist appointment I have some time for thinking (I have to think about something elese than just drilling )

1. I'm going to make some kind of light-ply former that will be glued to the root rib (inside the wing), that will keep the shape of this rib to follow the fuselage line. LE, spars and TE is not enough for that.

2. I need to look for some balsa triangle 3/4 3/4 for beveled TE and ailerons LE. I need to visit my LHS soon

3. Before I start remodeling the fuselage I have to measure the original wing incidence. I hope it is 0 degree, but I better be sure. My LHS is out of stock so I ordered GP AccuPoint together with 36inch bar (the original bar supports only 16 inch chord and 36inch should be good up to 32 inch chord). I need this instrument to set the new wing too.

Questions:

1. Plans show three servo trays - I guess it shows otional positions, but I will need only one servo, right?

2. I may missed this in instruction, but the tip rib cover is much bigger than the tip rib. How is that?

RysiuM

AFSalmon

My Feedback: (3)

Yes, the kit and plans show the option to split the ailerons and use two servos per wing like the H9 Ultra Stik. This allows special functions like the crow mixing and air braking. Not worth the trouble in my opinion but some like to play with these features. Just build for one aileron servo. The tip cover is bigger to allow for the 1/16" sheeting that goes on top of the rib (i.e. leading edge sheeting, rib caps, etc.). You will sand the excess down to match your sheeting after you glue it on. It's just slightly oversize for convenience of installation.

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

I see. Thanks for the explanation.
I got the wood yesterday - the bad thing is that they have only 36in long. Because of that I will keep original OMP TE and glue 3/8 x 1/4 on the top as a filler (for 3/4 triangle on TE bevel). So my ailerons will be about 36 inches long (not a full length of the wing).

I also updated plans with traced fuselage line. It made the distance between two root ribs shorter by about 2 inches at the wing tube.

I'm very anxious to start gluing parts togeter - just the day is so short.

RysiuM

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

Finally I finished all preparation work and was able to start making the wing. The wing goes easy and instruction is very clear however I had to read every chapter a couple times as I found every word there is important.
The one thing I'm missing a little is the wood marking. I have to search and measure pieces to verity that I'm using the right one. I know the second wing will be easier as I will be much more experienced.

I finished step 10 so far. I may be a short of the wing tube sleeve. I remember I asked for additional 10 inches because I need a piece that goes inside H9 fuselage. I just measure the fuselage - it is exactly 8.5 inches but the leftover I have is only 7.5 inches. So now I'm one inch short.

Now for the modifications:
I cut 1.5 inch from the TE of rib 3-9 and then additional cut 3/8 x 3/4 at the center of the new TE for the original TE stock. I will fill top and bottom with 1/4x3/8 pieces between ribs so I will have a line to glue the sheeting to. Rib 2 has cut hole 3/8x3/4 for the TE to go through. The place where TE stock is glued to the ribs is doubled by balsa leftover form the rib cutting. Rib 9 was cut all the way to the center hole so I enforced it with balsa leftover.

I didn't decide yet if I will do single or double beveling (flat or beveled TE).

Rib 2 was extended all the way to the airfoiled TE (sharp) extending beyond TE stock by 4 inches. So my ailerons will be 4 inches long. Ailerons will start at the rib 2 so it will be about 5 inches from the fuselage. The main reason is that I have only 36inch long wood for building aileron LE and TE.

I cut mounting tabs of the root rib (number 1) and added a piece at the back to create airfoiled TE. From H9 fuselage template I created two formers that are glued to the rib 1. This shaped the rib 1 to the shape of H9 fuselage. The back (TE) of the rib is in the original position on the plans, but the center part and LE sticks out closer to the rib 2 by about 1-1/4 inch.


Questions:
1. I'm used thin CA to glue TE, sub-LE, and spars to ribs. Is it strong enough or should I double all joints with epoxy or thick CA?
2. Do I need to paint the wing tube sleeve with epoxy or should it stay as it is?
3. Shear webbing should go only on the front part of spars (like I see on the picture) or on both sides of spars (double shear webbing)?

Pictures:
1. You can see how the rib 1 is placed on plans.
2. Shorter ribs left more space for the ailerons. Comparing to plans under the wing you can see how. Shorter these ribs are.
3. Extended rib 1 and 2 to create airfoiled new TE
4. Rib 9 enforced with pieces of balsa at the new TE
5. Light ply formers shape the root rib so it follows the H9 fuselage line.

RysiuM