DoubleUgly

Do any of you guys know of a place or person that if supplied with plans could produce the parts and how much they get for something like that. I have the plans for a old combat ship called the "Renegade" but I do not have any of the tools or the area needed to cut and shape the parts. Thanks in advance.

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

UglyTwice:

Almost any kit cutter can do it for you. But. Their doing it for youo can entail a copyright violation if the plane was ever kitted and the copyright has been maintained. If the plane was never kitted and the plan supplied for "Home" building there's no problem.

On a profile plane without tapered ribs it's hard to tell, but ir it was intended for home building and has a built up fuselage it will have the outlines of all the formers, and if a tapered wing usually the rib outlines as well. There are tricks for ribs for tapered wings that eliminate the need for the outlines, and they may not be there.

If you are satisfied there's no copyright problem go here:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/Wher...1063414/tm.htm

and check with the laser cutters listed. I'm sure there are others not listed as well.

Bill.

Jim Thomerson

If you don't have the tools or area to cut out the parts, how are you going to assemble the airplane? Even if you get a kit-cutter to make you a kit, you are still going to need tools and area. I think that is your first problem. I used to build airplanes on a small drawing board held in my lap, with a single-edge razorblade, pocketknife, and a pair of pliers. I made holes with a nail heated on the stove. But you gotta have something to work with.

Jim

gcb

Geez, I remember doing that. You could go through a stack of ribs in no time! Of course, if you had to move the leadouts it was a major job. Most leadouts worked OK where the plans said.

Some used that method for engine mounts and bellcrank mounts. I used a drill for that.

George

DoubleUgly

Thanks you guys for your help. You are right though Tom I do need to get a bigger place. My apartment right now is limited in room and I can either have a dinning table or a hobby table. I would like to have some place where I do not have to put everything away just to use the table again to eat meals on. I am working on that problem. Thanks again gentalmen for your help. I know the plan was kitted by Veco back in the 50's I have not seen it sence and I have not been able to locate one anywhere. Should I contact Veco are they still around?

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Dan:

Veco is long gone. The engines were taken by K&B, but I don't know about their kit designs. You could check with Randy Linsalato at RJL/MECoA, the current owner of K&B.

Bill.

Sport_Pilot

It is my understanding that if you have and original uncopied set of plans a kit cutter can cut it. Also if you have tracings made from an original kit you can legally cut it. The copyright only extends to copy's of the plans, so it is illegal for the kit cutter to cut from it. Problem is that many of the plans for taper winged airplane do not include the airfoil for any thing but the root tip.

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Sporty:

You have what is a popular misconception. When you buy a set of plans you are purchasing a license to build one airplane from the plan. If you doubt this buy the plan for a Van RV-4, build one and then let it be known you're building the second. See what happens. Architects are even more aggressive. Have a house designed and built, then start building the second from the same drawings. The architect (and his lawyer) will be banging on the door of your construction shed wanting an additional multi-thousand dollar payment for each house you build.

And when you buy a kit the license, again, is to build one plane.

Some plans are distributed free, or stated as being sold for the copying charge only. In this case there is no restriction on the number of planes that can be built legally.

When you buy a plan set, and later resell it, the buyer does not get a license to build from it, and can not legally do so unless you did not build the plane.

Sorry, but that's the legalities of copyrighted plans.

But it's usually ignored, and prosecution for an individual's copyright violation is seldom done, as the lawyer's fees would be several orders of magnitude greater than the recovered damages.

But it's still not right.

Bill.

Sport_Pilot

I am a professional engineer but not a lawer, as far as I know what you say is untrue, except that certain states and A.E. disclamers make it so. When you buy most kit planes you have to sign an agreement that makes what you say true. Else it is legal to make mutiple planes from the plans.

Sport_Pilot

From Title 17 Section 102 of the USC.

(a) Copyright protection subsists, in accordance with this title,
in original works of authorship fixed in any tangible medium of
expression, now known or later developed, from which they can be
perceived, reproduced, or otherwise communicated, either directly
or with the aid of a machine or device. Works of authorship
include the following categories:
(1) literary works;
(2) musical works, including any accompanying words;
(3) dramatic works, including any accompanying music;
(4) pantomimes and choreographic works;
(5) pictorial, graphic, and sculptural works;
(6) motion pictures and other audiovisual works;
(7) sound recordings; and
(8) architectural works.
(b) In no case does copyright protection for an original work of
authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method
of operation, concept, principle, or discovery, regardless of the
form in which it is described, explained, illustrated, or embodied
in such work.

Though architectural works are listed most building are not copy right protected. Also I could not find balsa wood as a media. Drawings are covered as pictorial. Just a quick review I cannot find where building from a set of plans constitutes copying.

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Hugh:

Yoou'e done some homewwork, I see. Written codes, though, are just the start. You have to research case law to find out what flies and what doesn't.

You noted that buildings are not copyrighted. This is generally true, but when you start the secind building without paying the architect's fee the second time you will be sued, and you will lose. You are using the intellectual property of another (the architect's design) for profit (saving the amount of his fee) without compensation. Building the second airplane from one set of plans is exactly the same. If it's a manned airplane (a "Home built") and word gets back the the owner of the design you almost definitely will be sued. And again, you will lose. As I said, with model planes you probably wont be bothered. But you could be.

What you might consider an extreme example of enforcement of intellectual property rights is in the popular music field. No, I'm not going to talk about copying music over the internet, everybody knows about that. It's music in a restaurant. Perfectly legal for the dishwasher to have his ghetto blaster blowing the roof off the building and shaking the foundations. In the kitchen it's a private use for the dishwasher's entertainment, and legal. The cashier can have a small transistor radio by the register, it's legal. Private use for her entertainment while working. But if the owner or manager pipes music into a sound system as background he has to pay a royalty for each selection played. BMI and ASCAP have even sued small diners that put a radio on a shelf to be heard in the dining area. And won their suits.

You don't like it, I don't like it, but that's the way it is.

Bill.