Originally Posted by FenderBean

You are basing your comparison off of things that don't match, fuel consumption listed is not max RPM for the motor so yes it will be lower for one. Your 180 is bigger and heavier than all compared 180s and until it shows max rpm fuel burn people will assume it burns more, the 26,000 extra RPM will increase fuel consumption substantially. New gen motors will have brushless starters, brushless pumps, ECUs on the motor, internal sensors and valve, bus type protocol and digital vs analog.
FYI your motor is listed with a XICOY V10 ECU, which is no longer produced and outdated. Specifications have nothing to do with the quality and technology used to produce them so don't confuse that when talking about old vs new.
Cheers, good luck

Originally Posted by FenderBean

Size is more than just diameter, when you compare width, length and weight, I am correct with my comment. Comparing 180/210 motors to anything other than 180 and 210 thrust isn't comparable at all.

Originally Posted by peter 098

Can you please explain to me about I was “Dodge” on Fbook even more on this group? Someone asked a question and I asked them to please refer to my more recent posts, nothing dodge about that just seems like laziness on your part because you could hav exist clicked on my name and seen more about the turbine. The two secound response was a spec on the engine but since has been bounced up to 3 sec. Nothing fishy that’s how it was.

Originally Posted by peter 098

Other brands also update their turbines many times over the years after they have been released. Guess that isn’t wise on their part either.

Originally Posted by peter 098

Hey guys, so I did some investigating to see what the specs are for all the major turbines on the U.S market for the 210 size turbines(some brands have a bit larger or a bit smaller but more or less around the 210 mark) and I got to say the a-210 is a real competitor comparing to all the normal specs that the turbine mfrs have on there websites. Starting off with price, it is very competitive considering some brands are asking over $4000 for less powered turbines but we aren’t here to judge. A-210 has the smallest diameter at 109mm followed by jc-200 at 111mm. It does have the longest length at 330mm but this includes the cone at the end not the actual can, again some brands don’t have it even specified. Has the smallest amount of consumption rate at 450ml/min at 100k rpm, some companies, as you can see below don’t, don’t even mention at what rpm but alm meca has that specified. All around the 21kg mark since they are all around the 210n mark. Is the the second most heaviest followed by the p-200 but again some companies don’t specify complete weight. On the high end has the highest rpm out of all the other engines at 124k, and has a 3.5sec acceleration from 33k-124k, again some of the companies don’t have times specified(almost none actually) and has almost the lowest idle rpm at 33k, Jc-200 at 32k.





So to come to a conclusion, the A-210 is like I stated above very competitive in the 210n market. Also has some key specs specified even with other brands not having anything you guys have mentioned like 5000ft tests. Some brands don’t even have some basic specs specified. Soon I will be making comparisons for the A-180. So all in all most of you guys made this turbine seem like it’s an ancient artifact that doesn’t have any specs but like I have proven has many key features that beat some of the other larger brands on the market. All of these came directly from the companies websites not making any of this stuff up.



Alm meca A-210

$3250

Diameter: 109mm

Length: 330mm

Consumption/min: 450 ml/min at 100,000 rpm

Thrust 210 nm = 21KG

Complete weight = 2.1 KG (turbines + control box) 2100grams

Temperature (Celsius): 550/750°

Fuels: Kerosene, Diesel, Jet 1A

Materials: Aluminum, steel, stainless steel

RPM Speeds: 33,000/ 124,000 in 3.5sec



Kingtech K-210

$3150

Diameter: 112.6 mm

Length: 280 mm

Weight: 1740g

RPM Range: up to 33,000-120,000RPM

Thrust: 21 kg @ max RPM ( 46.3 lbs at max RPM)

EGT: 650°C max

Fuel consumption: 590 g / min ( 20.8 oz / min ) 615ml/min



Swinwin sw-220

$2950

Thrust

22 kg / 47.5 lb

RPM Range

35,000 r/min ～ 110,000 r/min

Rated Exhaust Temperature

750℃ / 750~1382℉

Fuel Consumption

16 oz/min @ 90% Power 110,000 RPM(473ml/min)

Fuel

Kerosene, Jet A or diesel

Lubrication

5% kerosene, Jet A or 3% diesel

Start

Full auto-start

Restart

Auto-restart

Weight

1700 g / 60 oz / 3.75 lbs

Diameter

116mm / 4.57 in

Length

280mm / 11.02 in

Maintenance Interval

Every 25 hours

ECU Supply

3 cell li-po

Total Weight

2000 g / 70.5 oz / 4.4 lbs


Behotech jb-220

$4150

Diameter

113 mm – 4,45inch

Length

313 mm – 12,32inch

Weight

1640g – 3,62lbs

max. thrust

220N – 49,46lbs @ 123,000 rpm

min. thrust

8,05N – 1,7~1,81lbs @ 35,000 rpm

Fuel consumption @max. thrust

arround 720 ml/min

Exhaust gas temperature@ max. thrust

arround 750°

Fuel

Diesel or Jet A1 (+5% turbine oil)

Acceleration 35.000 – 120.000 rpm

4 seconds aprox.

Acceleration 60.000 – 120.000 rpm

1 second aprox


Jet central rhino 200

$3450

200 Newtons (45 Lbs) @ 121,000 RPM

Idle Thrust

6 Newtons (1.34 Lbs) @ 32,000 RPM

RPM Range

32,000 – 121,000

Weight

1.78 Kg (3.93 Lbs)

Diameter

111.0 mm (4.37”)

Length

302 mm (11.89”)

Exhaust Gas Temperature

500ş C – 700ş C

Fuel Consumption

0.55 Lt/min (19.5 Oz/min) @121 k 576ml/min



Jetcat p-200-Rx

$4600

Thrust: 52 lbs @ 112,000 RPM
Weight: 5.53 lb (2510g)
Diameter: 5.12 inches (130 mm)
RPM Range: 33,000 – 112,000 RPM
Exhaust gas temp.: MAX 750°C
Fuel consumption: 25 oz per/min at full power
Fuel: Jet A1, 1-K kerosene
Lubrication: approximately 5% synthetic Oil in the fuel
Maintenance interval: 25 hours

Originally Posted by peter 098

Well not sure why we aren’t on the same page, all of the engines are pretty much in the 180/210 range (+-10N) Which is a pretty good comparison. As for the engine weights the ecu box added another 300g which means the 210 is at 1800g and the 180 is at 1700g which is still pretty good.

Originally Posted by highhorse

The dodge was as follows: You made a vague claim on your FB page that the specs of your brand are better than all others. I asked WHAT was better than all others, and you referred me to the publishes specs which are clearly NOT better than all others. They aren’t even better than most others. They are only better than two others which are very old designs.

You dodged the question rather than directly answering it, presumably because you knew the your claims are out right FALSE.

Dude, I get it. You want to make some coin and maybe even be a player in the turbine supply business. Your problem though is that you are dealing with sophisticated buyers who see right through sophomoric sales tactics which are setting you back by laying waste to any shred of credibility you might have otherwise had.

Originally Posted by highhorse

Peter, you’re grasping at more completely illogical straws here and I am begging you to stop doubling down out of desperation. It only harms your cause. Perhaps you are still, all evidence to the contrary, operating on the hopes that your potential customers are uninformed?

The other name brands updated as a result of innovation, in order to keep up with each other in a competitive market place. If they hadn’t kept up then they would have died. This new brand is STARTING OUT two generations behind and costs more to boot. There’s simply no compelling reason to buy into the brand here.

Compare that to another recent new brand -Xicoy- which actually started out at or near the cutting edge and has been competitively priced from the outset. Or to the Kingtech launch which was not cutting edge but made up for that disadvantage through lower pricing. The key there is that the rep didn’t’ ruin KT’s reputation with absurd claims.

Originally Posted by highhorse

I notice first that you make no such claims for the 180. Good for you, as it’s indefensible.

Some pretty serious cherry picking with the 210 though, and I quit reading after your latest absurd “selling point” that only your brand lists a fuel flow at a completely arbitrary 100k rpm. Seriously? If 100k rpm is somehow relevant then tell us what the 100k thrust is and compare your fuel flow to motors in THAT class. Don’t blow smoke up our skirts by trying to compare apples to oranges.

I am not comparing apples to oranges, I am trying to use the specs that all the other brands have posted.

Your 100k is more red-herring nonsense, of course, designed to mask the fact that you do NOT list the industry-standard fuel flow at max rated power. Why do you keep doing this? Why do you keep hoping that your non-answers, and slights of hand are going to sell engines?

Alm at least listed a power setting, what power setting it was tested at, some of the other brands don’t even have it posted at all or at what rpm. Including what some may argue two of the largest brands kingtech or jetcat.

CHALLENGE: Peter, please tell me exactly which 210-class (200-220) engine(s) your brand beats in terms of installed weight and fuel flow at max power, while costing the same or less. AND give us those numbers based upon the incoming proprietary ECU vs the tried and tested Xicoy ECU which is currently sold with your engines but is to be displaced in future units.

Originally Posted by highhorse

Gaslight, much? No Peter. Your audience is not stupid enough to let you lump 180’s and 210’s into the same class.

Not sure where you’re getting me lumping 180’s and 210’s together? Haha, do you know how to read?
More credibility lost. I am begging you for your own sake. Please stop.

Just. Please. Stop.

I have only read through the first of three page of this thread and have already found too many falsehoods and misdirections to count.

please explain where? These engines compete with the other brands on the market? If you were to look at the data which you obviously didn’t you would see no lying going on. That no UAT is required? Welp, like I stated above I do not run a uat and so does no one in France where these engines area made, as you could tell in the video no uat in my airplane period. That these engines are actually reasonably priced compared to the market? It is. Again look at the data, if you would have read you would have seen it. So not sure where you are getting this from?

I give up for now but you can count on my return if/when RCJI publishes a test of the 210. I look forward then to comparing your numbers to tests from 10-15 years ago.

Originally Posted by invertmast

I see lots od opinionated “facts” from the OP on why these are great, but nothing that can substantiated outside of his personal opinion on the product.

they look nice, but outside of that, you better bring something industry leading to the table in this part of the hobby to get people to give it a look.

Originally Posted by Dansy

It’s pretty obvious your missing the point completely, the motor your trying to sell is a pretty old design and used old Xicoy V10 ECU with Old GSU that even Xicoy doesn’t use on there motors, the trend is lighter smaller more power for the size, nothing your motor have..

I have no bone in this I don’t sell anything and I’m not sponsor by anyone, I do understand your position, you probably taught it would be easy, when you compare the K210 that motor has been out for quite a while, but is constantly refresh it has touch screen GSU, and now with brushless starter and pump, new ECU, DRM, all the Kingtech are now working on a BUS system……..

A yet your motor are more expensive then most, plus It need to be sent back before the 2 years mark…or the warranty is out, really….I guess you expect your customer to own only one motor….outer wise 50 hrs take time…shipping to France and 300 per 2 years it’s…..not the norm.

‘I think all major manufacturers of micro jet motor, used modern technology, the $5.00 of 3D printing for front cover and pump/ECU cover is Not a plus at that price point, it look cheap and not durable….not sure what they were thinking there, make no sense to me….

It’s futile to try to compare your motors with other manufacturers, the comparaison are all modern motors, specs are only one part of the equation….

Really there’s no need to answer…..I’m just making some obvious observations.

Originally Posted by FenderBean

1) The turbines when you look at market is very reasonably priced, I don’t understand why you guys keep saying it’s ridiculously over priced? Have you guys looked at the other brands out there? I mean this is the most expensive side of the hobby, they are expensive turbines don’t get me wrong but all the turbines out there are expensive.
Because the technology used is out dated, brushed motors, old ECU, external ECU and analog vs digital just to name a few and to change this is to basically change the entire motor.
2) The service is a bit high but again we are talking and changes will be made. Currently it’s at 50 hours or 2year what ever comes first. It’s at about $300 for service which is reasonably priced like all other brands. But you do also have to remember that this turbine has life time warranty including everything inside the engine, bearings, shafts, wheels.
This will need to be shown vs mentioned, the bearings used in these motors typically are all the same so to claim double the life is suspect but possible
3) the 3D printed parts, the ecu box is currently as we speak being developed to be made out of aluminum. The front cover and starter motor housing is 3D printed, it is made out of very high quality material that is very durable, it’s not some cheap plastic like you get with the uat holders or what not. It’s very strong.
Plastics get brittle with heat and age
4) The size of turbine, everyone keeps taking about how large it is. When you look at the other brands these engines are very competitive with size and weight with all the other same n size turbines on the market.
Current NEW Generation motors of all brands are smaller, 180s are the size of older 160s, 200s are the size 180s and so on
5) Some may not talk about how for example how nice the turbine bracket is nicely done, cnc machined and not just some crappy flimsy pieces of aluminum that I can bend in my hands or every time your in a crash you have to replace because it bends and doesn’t clamp the turbine properly or when you are screwing it together.
There is a reason why clamps are flimsy, from turbines to car hoses, its to conform to the shape its going around and gives vs breaks. Not a big deal which just personal pref.
6) State what all isn’t specified on the specs sheet even though not many(if any) other brands specify what some have asked. And then complain that there is so little about this engine specifics actually told. But other don’t specify either and have less information then what Alm meca provides.

Originally Posted by why_fly_high

I appreciate anyone trying to bring a new product to market. The problem I see is that there are no differentiators for this turbine. It is priced in the range of all the others. Specs don't show any advantages. The 2 year thing is an issue I think. I know there are some active guys but I would bet 90% or the turbines out there don't hit 25 hours in 2 years so the service interval is actually not an advantage and an increased cost over time. I have owned Xicoy, Kingtech, and Jet Central. There are a lot of factors that go in to buying a turbine. I can honestly say there is nothing about this turbine that would make me choose it over an established brand.