capthis

My Feedback: (67)

Is it acceptable to hold in a little left aileron while trying to TR? The reason I am asking is because smallfly was giving me a bunch of grief for it this past weekend, and he said I was cheating! Am I? I have seen other people do it, and also saw pictures of others with a little aileron held in. I am talking about my profiles here, which don't want to rotate around as well as my giant scale plane do.

TERMAGATOR

My Feedback: (2)

I dont think its cheating...its just something else...probably a Hi-alpha vertical roll

3Dreaming

My Feedback: (1)

Bryan, that would be a hovering roll, and not a TR. Just keep practicing. I plan on practicing all winter long, so next season I'll be TR'n on the deck. Tom

wgeffon

My Feedback: (4)

Bryan,

Yes its cheating. LOL
My Sledge was kinda hard to get to spin with the Saito .72 and a Master Airscrew 13x6 K series.
Tom Baker gave me a Master airscrew 13x6 Scimitar series in Nashville and now it spins like a top. No Aileron needed.

Try some different props and see what you get.

capthis

My Feedback: (67)

The dang airplane keeps spinning on the sim. I guess I really don't care, if its cheating at least I am getting to practice that belly in stuff!

danhoh

Hey CAPTHIS !!!!!!!!

Remember the first rule................... NO Whining !!!!
Remember the second rule........... FUN (even if it is cheating!)

If in doubt............... go back to first rule !


I'm not saying you were whining. I'm saying that............. Ugh. Never mind. I was whining.

hovermaster

My Feedback: (2)

I find that a lot of the profiles dont TR very easy, ive even had some TR to the right ( dont ask how ) . O well but the imortant thing is to have fun, and try as hard as you can. I guess i would call it cheating though ( by giving it left ail. you are defeating the use of torque ) Sometimes you may need to give it a little left to get it started but not to do the whole thing. Hovering is just as good cause i tend to get really close to my plane, so if it is TR the wing will hit me in the face.



Chris

lomcevek1

OK I will go against the grain on this one and say that it is not cheating. From what I know the full scale planes do at least to get it rolling and then reverse the ailerons as the plane starts to drop backwards (They can't hover yet[:-]).

Also sometimes I will give left aileron to get the thing started and then it will go on it's own as long as you keep the nose vertical or a SMIDGEON on it's back.

Constrictor

My Feedback: (46)

By its very definaition the Tourque roll is without assistance of the ailerons. Torque roll means the torque of the engine causes the plane to roll. If you use alerons it is an aileron roll

mAvRiCk-inactive

I'd have to say that is almost harder to torqueroll with the ailerons because your pushing the sick all over the place. Who cares, its a whole lot of fun, my Golberg EXtreme 330 torque rolls to the right sometomes. I dialed in a lot of left aileron and now it satrts the spinnig but i just like to have fun.

Have fun guys

TailTwister

My Feedback: (1)

Is is OK to cheat a little on your wife?

Just by calling it cheating, you seem like you do not want to do it.

I practice tons of TRs each time I fly. I'm the last pilot on the field, and always burn a tank of fuel "on the half pipe". Pull it up, go for a TR, if it falls out, go to the other side of the field, and try again.

Wayne has a point about props. Also, try a heavier prop. The harder an engine has to work to transition, the harder it tries to torque to airframe.

Anyone can aileron roll on a very slow (nearly motionless) upline. Most pilots cannot torque.

capthis

My Feedback: (67)

What my original meaning was to get the airplane started rolling, I would feed in a little aileron, and then center the stick, just long enogh to get it started. Of course if I get stuck again where I didn't keep the nose perfectly straight I could bump them again to get it atrted around again. I know a "real" torque roll is caused by the adverse torque of the engine. Kind of like a muscle car will tilt to one side when you rev it up in idle. But my funfly .52 two stroke doesn't want to torque near like my edge with 100cc twin. Thanks to all your replies! If I keep practicing maybe I too can one day torque them on the deck with the big boys! You know like Geffon, Rozzman, and Williams! Those guys are my heros you know!

wgeffon

My Feedback: (4)

Bryan,
You need to get out more!

capthis

My Feedback: (67)

I was out all day trying to fly like you guys!

wgeffon

My Feedback: (4)

I meant that your losing your mind if the three of us are your heros.

Its just 3D..

TailTwister

My Feedback: (1)

Many pilots do use the first touch of aileron to start the roll. Some hold the aileron (in a hover) and still claim to have done a TR. If you can start the roll, then center the stick and it keeps on rolling, I'd say you are not too far off from a regular TR anyway.

Work the plane to vertical and let it start to tailslide. Then add two or three clicks of power and remove it quickly. When the plane starts to bobb up and down, that is when it will want to torque, as it takes more torque to pull out of a tailslide than hold a hover. I try to tell floks to enter a TR at idle and perfectly vertical, then add power. You can't slow down into a TR. So many pilots are so used to flying under power on an upline that they freak when they pull up. I watched a guy yesterday trying to TR. 20 feet up, and full bore, he would pull vertical. He would climb to 25 or 30 feet, then before he even slowed down, he added power. I talked to him and told him not to add power until I said, and he agreed. I told him to approach like he was landing, and I'd say when to pull and then when to add power. The poor guy almost left a wet spot when I said "pull"... and waited for the plane to stop. I said "power" and he jammed it to full. Afterward, he told me he didn't expect to be that low. I explanined the good of the low altitude and how he now knows the engine will bail him out. He tried it several more times before landing.

My long winded point is that you are pretty close already. You may be closer to a good TR than you think. If the aileron is a HELPFUL crutch, then go ahead. If it looks that it may be a hinderence in the future, I'd avoid it.

m.gramling

My Feedback: (8)

IF using the alierons make you happy. I say go for it.
Alieron roll-torgue roll- who cares. As long as its down on the deck, and plane is not moving vertically Go for it.

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

Ailerons aren't cheating. Now gyros on the other hand, that would definately be cheating.

capthis

My Feedback: (67)

Nope no gyros just lots of practice. I have flown a plane with a gyro (a buddies) and I can see where they help. I'm getting there slowly but shurely. Just need to keep on practicing. I got five rounds out of my 33% edge today, and several more attempts where I was egtting at least two or three. The ailerons don'y do you any good on it, unless your climbing or something. I'll keep at it, and maybe by next summer I can TR on the deck!

tailspnr

My Feedback: (1)

For the first time I found myself using a touch of left ailerons tonight just to start the torquing process. Once it started to rotate it continued at a nice rotation but for some reason this evening it / I was having a hard time getting it to rotate initially.

So I say that if you simply use it to start the TR and the plane continues on after its not cheating. But thats just my opinion.

Hey Capthis, I thought of posting my broken Edge picture with the comments "this is what happens to a 36% Aeroworks when you TR too low too soon"....only because I know how much you like that pic. But I decided not too since it kinda makes me sick too.

sloanfs

In My opinion Ailerons are not cheating. I do them both ways, the difference being that it TR'sfaster with aileron input.
If you feel you need to do them without, blipping the throttle helps it rotate faster. another thing that will help is a bigger diameter, or heavier prop.
I have noticed if you use ailerons and blip the throttle to get it really spinning , it kind of locks in to a TR. I dont know if this is centrifical force or what. On my utimate bipe when it is spinning fast you can TR without even thinking about it , It just stays put. All you have to do is watch your altitude, it is the only thing that changes.