acdii

With the influx of ARF, even though build quality cannot touch the quality of a kit build, is there still a viable market? The company I work for is looking for ideas to expand on, and I brought up the RC industry. I am sure there are plenty of short kit makers who would like to market through an online marketplace, but a full on kit like Topflight, or Great Planes, if they were to be revived via kit only, would they sell enough for a decent ROI?

Or with the passing of our elders, is kit building pretty much dead, like they are?

flywilly

My Feedback: (121)

I’m 66 years old and have been building kits since 1966. Mostly pattern and the occasional scale aerobatic model. There are a few current pattern kits available, mostly from Japan and a couple from Central Europe. These are all wood kits. There are also a few composite kits available, but mostly ARFs. There is a surprising selection of classic pattern kits that have become available. There are quite a few scale kits and short kits mostly in the larger scale size range. There are loads of sport and sport scale ARFs in the 40-120 range. I continue to see OOP kits sell on eBay for considerably more than their original sale price. Personally, I have accumulated almost 300 kits almost all of which are no longer in production. I suspect there are quite a few ‘baby boomer’ kit collectors out there.
i think to make an informed decision some serious market research would be required, but, in my humble opinion, the glory days of kit sales are past, sadly.
My 2 cents…
I do try to support the kit industry as much as possible; don’t tell my wife! :-)
Will

mgnostic

There is a market for kits but it is a smaller part of the hobby than it once was. Those of us who like to build are kind of a minority in the hobby. As to the question, Can it be a viable sideline for a business? A lot of hobby related businesses have been. Or they have been otherwise small operations. I think one important question for the business owners is can you produce a product with the production resources on hand? Will they have to hire and train personnel or ,ideally, can they make better use of someone who would otherwise get laid off. The most viable business model seems to be "cut on demand". It allows you to maintain a good selection without tying up a bunch of inventory. Another option is accessories. Recently True Turn quit making spinners to focus on other contracts.
I wouldn't count on the kit collectors. In large part they are after the nostalgia. I'm not ragging on people like Will who have a hundred or more old kits. That's their thing and power to them but they probably aren't your market. You are looking for what do people want to build today.
Tied closely to this is marketing. Your company may have the resources to create a product but do they have someone who can create a website or other advertising. I have seen that someone is trying to reproduce some of the Topflite kits including the plastic parts and so on so somebody out there thinks there is a market. My local kit cutter retired so I am wishing your the best of luck

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

IMO if someone wanted to successfully produce kits of any kind of volume, they need to play into nostalgia and history of the hobby. Reproduce some of the great, timeless kits of the past with some modernization. They would have to be easily built as glow or electric power. You would soon discover I think that the Aeromaster kit listed in the classifieds for $225 is actually a great deal compared to what it would cost to produce today. For now, I’m happy with finding a couple kits a year. Just completed these two that kept me busy over the winter.

Truckracer

My Feedback: (19)

Wow that Aeromaster brings back so many memories from the 70's. I owned and flew three of them and flew one of them to its retirement because it was just completely worn out. Red in color like yours. So much fun! The second one was flown for a year or so and was sold off for some unknown reason. The third was built from the later Great Planes kit and I think they called it "Super" or something like that. I had a minor prang with the third plane after flying it a few years and gave it to a friend in need and he fixed and flew it for a number of years. It finally met its very sad end in a lipo caused house fire. A very sad day as many other planes perished.I still have a virgin Aeromaster kit that I'll probably never build but I keep it around for the memories.

I enjoyed Andrews designs and scratch build (2) Trainermasters and a Sportmaster. The Sportmaster and one of the Trainermasters still exist and fly today. I'll see if I can find some photos in my archives.

Is the low wing from an Airtronics Kit.

I found a few old photos or Andrews designs I built. The Aeromaster was built sometime in the 90's and I flew it for several years. In the photo it is flown by my friend in the early 2000's. The Sportmaster was built in the mid 90's as a twin to the Aeromaster and the Trainermaster was built in the 80's. The Trainmaster probably had several hundred flights on it when the photo was taken in the 2000's. All of these planes are Monokote covered. Love Andrews designs.

donnyman

Kit building isn't dead the kit builders are. most don't want to spend the time and effort to build thus the ARF etc> market. and the effort to produce and market kits is rather expensive with little profit. I have been involved in this hobby since the 1940's and have taken to building for my enjoyment only and do very little flying. over the years I have built up quite an inventory so building as I do is cheap, I have all sorts of models even a few ARF's which to me are low value toys though a couple are very nice and capable flyers. I do not wish to appear to Know where this hobby is going but I do know the mystic that once was aviation is gone and will never return for most.

I have and will continue to enjoy this hobby as long as I can.

tedsander

The other side of the coin is the availability of the things not included in the kits, that may be needed to complete the model. Varies widely, of course, but hinges, wheels, covering materials, clevises, pushrods, etc. can sometimes be a challenge to find. One has to plan out and shop (usually on line) carefully to round out everything. Rare is the shop you can walk into, browse the shelves, and walk out with all the bits and pieces desired.

donnyman

I have watched hobby shops come and go, The cost of maintaining an inventory is very difficult due to the cost of everything and the low sales turn over, stuff sitting on the shelf wont pay the bills. Inventory taxes don't help the retailer one bit and he must past his cost on to the consumers.

The day is gone when one could go to the hobby shop and have a conversation with other modelers and the persons working there knew the hobby as well. Now days the persons behind the counters don't know anything beyond a "I" pad, can't count, read cursive and most don't model kits or ARF's so how are they to converse aviation??

The modeling industry is in turmoil for now but will survive in a different manner. ........ I hope!

foodstick

Yeah selling kits would be tough I think. But I think there would be a bit of a market for someone that could draw up plans for wings and fuselage for some popular ARF's. I can think of a few arfs that died off and people would love to been able to buy a wing kit or even plans. I have an arf I bought missing half a wing.. If I could buy the plans or kit I would.
Topflite giant scale P51 ARF wings were weak, an available plan or wing kit would have sold..

But the time for even that service to be profitable?

Also just as an example there were a couple different Large size ZERO's you could not find canopies for, Byron being one.. If a person could find the current HOT parts nobody makes any more it might be worth the time.

foodstick

Truckracer, I saw your pics and not your name,, hahahah I thought wow, I knew a guy that could covered just like that, Turns out it was you posting the planesI

Ever build that CMP Zero? great flier.. People used to be looking for CANOPIES for that one !

ANy BUSA ww1' builds yet? I have a 5 year old albatros project thats going to get done someday !

mgnostic

Parkflier Plastics seems to be making a living a producing stuff. Before the guy at Lazerworks retired one of his product lines was canopies. The last time I was in the shop there were still shelves of canopy plugs. Most were for the short kits but he also had kit canopies. One of our local builders occasioanlly rebuilds crashed ARFs for the 3-D boys. So there is some market. The question is would it be enough to be worth the effort to draw up and cut parts on a production basis. How often would you put in the effort only to sell one wing kit for instance? How long are HOT parts hot? Parts support for many of not most ARFs is crap but with a lot of them once the current container load is sold off there aren't going to be anymore. Another issue that Lazerworks had was just keeping the website up to date. He would have someone who could update the webpage, or do some cadwork for that matter, but then they would level up and move on and he would have to find another person. I don't mean to poop on the idea, it's just that there are some realities to deal with as a business. On the upside, once you have a canopy plug for instance, you basically have it forever. With 3-D printing making a master for casting a plug is relatively easy. Why don't I do it? Because I'm old enought to have retired once and I don't have the burning desire to start a business.
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foodstick

Do I hear you loud and clear

There is money out there to be made, but it will be well informed hard worker scrambling to get it ! My Dad was that kind of person.. I know there are people out there with the skills and drive to do it. But it is probably not the easiest way to do it..

I recall there was someone that started making vacuum formed wheel covers for the 1/3 Sopwith pup Balsa USA sold. I think they fit a wheel used on golf bags? I heard he had a good run on it ! I have a set myself

J330

My Feedback: (3)

I have met the owner of BMJR and I'm acquainted with Brodak's business as well. Both sell kits and both are struggling,
as operating costs and dismal sales plague the industry. The owners are not young, they're trying to keep the kit business alive.
There are many kit companies around, mostly garage sized or a shop on residential property to keep costs down.
Even SIG is pretty much down to 2,000 sq ft, with horrible customer service. They import ARF's for some pretty crazy high prices, so I doubt they'll be around much longer.
RCGroups kit section of the classifieds is busy, as well as listings on eBay. Balsa USA hasn't introduced a new kit in years to stimulate new business.
If I want a kit, I got to a swap meet, or look for an estate sale where someone hoarded hundreds of these all their life and the surviving family just wants it cleared out to list the house for auction.
If you have money to grow, buy distressed real estate and flip it. Easy income.

mgnostic

The folks at BUSA have my sympathy. From where I'm sitting it looks like the WWI stuff is their bread and butter. I've built several of them myself and hope to do a couple more. As far as introducing a new kit goes, what will it be? Once you get past Fokkers, Sopwiths, Nieuports and Spads you have pretty much exhausted most people's interest. The 1/3 scale Albatross is a beauty but too big for most of us to haul around. How many of the DH-4s do you see at the field? There are those of use who would love to see the skies full of WWI birds but I don't know that there are enough to justify a production run of the other aircraft. Outside of the community of WWI fans most people have never heard of some of my favorite planes. Most of the airplanes at my local field are foamies and 3-D planes. The 3-D guys are all about look at muh carbon fiber and high end servos. We have a few folks in the local club who still build but I'm probably the most active kit built flier in the club.

giarcg2

Returning to the hobby after many years and I'm sad to see the changes. I have held on to the belief that the many kits I've stockpiled over the years would always have some value but I'm starting to believe not. I know I'll never build them all so what to do?

donnyman

Welcome to the club!
There is a lot of us out here in the same situation, for me it got more complicated when I took sick and couldn't even make it to my shop. so I tried to sell what I had and no one will give me even close to what my stuff is worth, the hobby is in flux, how it's going to turn out is any ones guess. I intend to just keep doing what I have been doing but making as few purchases as possible in hopes of using up what I have.

What baffles me is someone will want what you offer but don't want to pay your price and for some reason wont even make a counter offer. I am almost to the point of not trying anymore, but I got to get rid of all this stuff.
Happiness for me would be to live long enough in decent health to use up what I have!

mgnostic

I suppose that this also illustrates a further problem for the would be kit manufacturer. I'm as guilty as anybody of seeing a kit and thinking "Ooh! I like that. I'd better grab it while it's in front of me." I would not by any means be considered a collector but I do have at least a dozen kits stashed around the shop. All the active builders that I know also have a few kits waiting in line. My point is, for every active builder there are more kits out there than we are likely to build now. An upside for a manufacturer is that a lot of those kits have reached a point of being unbuildable due to the materials having deteriorated or will never be opened due to their percieved value (cough Royal warbirds cough cough). As for the value of our collected kits, there are a lot of "tire kickers" out there. They are just looking for an easy bargain rather than seeking that kit that they actually want to build.