A7Bldr

My Feedback: (40)

Helping a friend sort out a retract problem in his SM 2.6M Viperjet. All 3 gear motors work (I operated each on 4 volts individually) but the controller is shot and smells burnt.
Can I use a different make of controller, such as Electron, since Down and Locked is gone?
Thanks, Jim

p-40lover

you maybe be able to use a robart one..l believe way back in the beginning downlock was making the controller for them

lavi rider

My Feedback: (6)

Down&locked are gone ???
I spoke to Mitch a couple of days ago and got stuff a week ago .

Give him a call he’ll be happy to help you out .

A7Bldr

My Feedback: (40)

I have called several times, left message and also emailed, with no response.

Zeeb

My Feedback: (41)

I believe the XiCoy unit will do the job. Best bet is to just get rid of the Down and Locked conversion. It will constantly burn out actuator motors, this is the voice of experience......

Bob_B

My Feedback: (11)

Lgc13 if the brakes are still air units

Len Todd

LGC 13 is old tech. No gyro. The 13 never really worked well for me. I ended up tossing it. Try the LGC 15 which is basically the same as Electon's GS200.

On another note, 4 volts just kind of stands out to me as too low of a voltage for normal operation. Hope your friend is not operating them at that voltage. That could be the cause of the original issue. Lower voltage = higher current.

A7Bldr

My Feedback: (40)

I should clarify the 4 volts test. I merely hooked up a 4 cell nicad (not freshly charged up) directly to each gear motor to verify each one would run. I did not run them to the limits.
He was flying it on a 3 cell LIFE battery and they worked great. Then the plane was crashed, all the plug-in wires were knocked out of the controller and I wanted to verify the gear worked before it was installed in a new plane.
Thanks, Jim
.

Bob_B

My Feedback: (11)

Todd if the brakes air powered theres no gyro benefit. The nose gear can run through the gyro if the guy even uses one.

IFLYBVM2

My Feedback: (360)

Hi Jim-
Sent you a message on RCG regarding (2) D and L controllers that I now have for sale.
Thanks-Mike O.
843.833.0059

Auburn02

My Feedback: (1)

It is a mystery for sure. The website is back up again now, it had been down for weeks or months. Although it still has a message about purchase functionality being down "temporarily" and that "we will be live again in a few weeks." That message has been there for at least 6 months. The page has nothing but dead end links after dead end links, can't download the controller setup software for example. Numerous reports here and throughout the RC world about emails and phone calls going unanswered, putting future support in question. No online or event presence that I know of. Just a really odd way to run a business, if they are in fact still doing so.

I'd be opting for a Xicoy controller, you just need to know what voltage and current the motors can safely handle (at least, I think that's it) and set that up in the new controller. Otherwise there's nothing special about each brand that requires them to use the proprietary controllers.

A7Bldr

My Feedback: (40)

Mike, yes these are exactly the issues I've been having with D&L. Yesterday I missed a (rare) call back from him and immediately called back, but no answer. Maybe he's just super-busy.
So regarding controllers, that's the mystery to me; what voltage is needed and at how many amps do they stop moving at? Each retract system has its own specific numbers I assume....
Seems to me if I don't get it right, we're going to have gear that may stop halfway up due to amp load, or smoke the retract cylinders because the amp load gets too high (when up against the up or down stop).
Specifically what function does the software in the controller do? Simply adjust the voltage and amp draw?
I guess I view this as a learning experience too...
Jim

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

The controller just applies the voltage supplied by the batteries. Most controllers expect 8.2 to approx 7.4 Volts - basically a 2s LiPo. The controller monitors the current being drawn by the gear motors and turns them off when it reaches a set limit (and is at that limit for a bit of time). The current cutoff is programmable in the Xicoy LGC-15. Its also programmable in the LGC-13, but you have to have a Xicoy GSU to program it.

The gear motors shouldn't really care about the voltage being applied to them, as long as its not too high. I'm not sure, but if the D&L gear needs 6V, then its likely due to the controller needing that. The Xicoy controllers are set up for 2S LiPo and the D&L gear motors should be fine with that. Its the current cutoff that needs to be correct. I've set up several different gear makes on the Xicoy controllers. I just start with a low cutoff current which usually results in a gear stall before it reaches the limits. Then I increase it, a little of a time until the gear transit reliably. If the gear hang in the air, I bump it up a bit. Also, the Xicoy controllers have a "back off" time that you can set. This is a short burst of reverse current the controller applies after the gear reaches its limit. This "back off" takes the strain off of the jack screw so that the loads on the gear are taken by the up and down locks, not the jack screw.

The Xicoy gear controllers are the only ones I'll use...

Bob

Bob

Auburn02

My Feedback: (1)

I seem to recall you're not adjusting the amp draw, but rather the max amp cutoff limit. So you start low, set it as low as you can and still have the gear work reliably on the bench. Maybe use your hand to simulate a little load on the gear and make sure the amp cutoff is high enough that the gear still goes up and down. Then fly. If they only go up halfway and stop, the air resistance is more than you accounted for and you bump the cutoff a bit more and fly again. There is of course some risk here that you end up with even more resistance on the out swing and can't get the gear to go back down either, something to consider.

After typing all that I realized Bob already said it much better.

A7Bldr

My Feedback: (40)

Guys, thanks for those great explanations!
I have found a simple D&L unit that I will try 1st; if it fails I'll head to a Xicoy unit.
Regards, Jim

mongo

My Feedback: (15)

i would be measuring and recording the amp draw data, just in case ya ever have to try to replace another controller.
especially the up/down cut off amp points.

A7Bldr

My Feedback: (40)

Good idea!

Auburn02

My Feedback: (1)

Depending on the controller you get, you may still have to set the cutoff using the Down and Locked setup software. I believe it could differ widely depending on the gear style/size/weight, it wouldn't necessarily use the same settings for all of their actuators.

lavi rider

My Feedback: (6)

he said he’s traveling for a week or so , he’ll respond as soon as he gets back home again

Zeeb

My Feedback: (41)

GUYS, give it up. D&L will NEVER work correctly. Constant failures and even if they give you new motors/actuators, it's still a HUGE pain in the butt to change them out.

Do yourselves a favor; can you spell "ELECTRON"?????

A7Bldr

My Feedback: (40)

Well Zeeb, the retracts that I am working with worked PERFECTLY and the plane owner loved them, until the plane met Terra Firma in a bad way..... just sayin.
And yes I have Electrons in my Viper. They are nice.

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

Terra firma is bad for retracts, and airplanes in general

Vincent

My Feedback: (61)

I know this is an old thread but does anyone know how i can get in touch with Mitch. I have several jets still running on down and locked conversions. What i would like to ask Mitch is what is the exact specs on the N20 motor used in his gear. I have tried more than a few N20's but none of them work like the ones Mitch installed. thx

Zeeb

My Feedback: (41)

Best advice I can give you is to call Greg instead of Mitch and put that D&L stuff in the round file......