BVM KingCat---How ARF is it?
05-11-2004, 08:33 AM
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RE: BVM KingCat---How ARF is it?
Hi David,
Probably. Even so I am weary of any time needed for building. I am always amazed at where you guys find the 100's of hours it takes to build the jets you have with all the details from kits that require a lot of work just for an average finish. Must have the wrong job or the wrong country.
So if I get you right the doors are simple cutouts and the doors are seperate pieces supplied, or does the doors come from the material removed from the cutouts?
Any strengthening required over the standard design like retract mounts?
Smoking grass? Dont use the stuff so grass so not an issue for me......
Cheers
Andre
Probably. Even so I am weary of any time needed for building. I am always amazed at where you guys find the 100's of hours it takes to build the jets you have with all the details from kits that require a lot of work just for an average finish. Must have the wrong job or the wrong country.
So if I get you right the doors are simple cutouts and the doors are seperate pieces supplied, or does the doors come from the material removed from the cutouts?
Any strengthening required over the standard design like retract mounts?
Smoking grass? Dont use the stuff so grass so not an issue for me......
Cheers
Andre
05-11-2004, 10:44 AM
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RE: BVM KingCat---How ARF is it?
Andre:
David is a superb, fast builder and painter......I am a slow builder and basically a non-painter........forget the door and wing tube worries....as David said, a couple of hours work at best.....and remember, no gear door cylinders to install as the door are attached to the main struts and the nose gear closes by air pressure alone.....works fine....
ARF is a relative term......relative to building, glassing and painting a BobCat, it is an ARF.......relative to one of the new SkyMaster Jets, it is a semi-ARF
I measure my work days in 3-4 hour segments......and it took 30 of those to complete my pre-painted KC...that did include a fair amount of time spent planning on how to install all the air and electric lines and a smoke system......as others have said, there is generous use of aeropoxy that demands long hardening times that do slow one down, but if you are careful, you can jump around in the manual and work on other things like the canopy or cockpit detail while waiting for the glue to dry........the fit of the CNC routed wood components is excellent, as is the boom to fuse fit......getting a good fit on the wing to boom surfaces takes a little more time to get the incidence and boom to wing gap perfect, but still only one day's work.....
After watching Scott fly his KC with one of your engines on it at Tucson Meeting 6 weeks ago, you won't go wrong choosing this as your sport plane......excellent knife edge, inverted flight with minimal down push, very tight corners on square loops, giant-scale-like outside flicks and spins, and reasonably slow landing speeds......while still smoking straight and level......
Tom
David is a superb, fast builder and painter......I am a slow builder and basically a non-painter........forget the door and wing tube worries....as David said, a couple of hours work at best.....and remember, no gear door cylinders to install as the door are attached to the main struts and the nose gear closes by air pressure alone.....works fine....
ARF is a relative term......relative to building, glassing and painting a BobCat, it is an ARF.......relative to one of the new SkyMaster Jets, it is a semi-ARF
I measure my work days in 3-4 hour segments......and it took 30 of those to complete my pre-painted KC...that did include a fair amount of time spent planning on how to install all the air and electric lines and a smoke system......as others have said, there is generous use of aeropoxy that demands long hardening times that do slow one down, but if you are careful, you can jump around in the manual and work on other things like the canopy or cockpit detail while waiting for the glue to dry........the fit of the CNC routed wood components is excellent, as is the boom to fuse fit......getting a good fit on the wing to boom surfaces takes a little more time to get the incidence and boom to wing gap perfect, but still only one day's work.....
After watching Scott fly his KC with one of your engines on it at Tucson Meeting 6 weeks ago, you won't go wrong choosing this as your sport plane......excellent knife edge, inverted flight with minimal down push, very tight corners on square loops, giant-scale-like outside flicks and spins, and reasonably slow landing speeds......while still smoking straight and level......
Tom
05-11-2004, 10:46 AM
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RE: BVM KingCat---How ARF is it?
ORIGINAL: BMT
So if I get you right the doors are simple cutouts and the doors are seperate pieces supplied, or does the doors come from the material removed from the cutouts?
Any strengthening required over the standard design like retract mounts?
Cheers
Andre
So if I get you right the doors are simple cutouts and the doors are seperate pieces supplied, or does the doors come from the material removed from the cutouts?
Any strengthening required over the standard design like retract mounts?
Cheers
Andre
I have built two KC's. Both were whites. Most of the build is assembly and gluing. The nose door is cut out and used for the nose gear. An opening is then cutout for the rest of the nose gear leg. The main doors are open per marks on the fuse and digarded. Seperate main doors are used instead.
It is really not too bad to finish it, but you have to be very careful and follow the book and do not cut any corners to speed up the process because it will bite you later on. Just spend a few hours a nite and you will have it ready in a total of 60 hrs may be more. IT is a big plane and flys very well indeed.
You could also order the instruction manual from BVM and decide if you want to do it, then if you buy it they MAY credit you for the manual.
05-11-2004, 11:28 AM
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RE: BVM KingCat---How ARF is it?
David
Unfortunately its the way the conversion works its always been the same buying from the US.
At an exchange of $1.77 to the pound sterling I should have paid £2200. I did tho pay £3800
which makes it by my reconning $6726!
I'm not tho really complaining you should take all my posts as harmless banter. Its an unfortunate fact if you want real quality you do have to buy from the US......... there iv'e said it ....Happy now!!!
M
Unfortunately its the way the conversion works its always been the same buying from the US.
At an exchange of $1.77 to the pound sterling I should have paid £2200. I did tho pay £3800
which makes it by my reconning $6726!
I'm not tho really complaining you should take all my posts as harmless banter. Its an unfortunate fact if you want real quality you do have to buy from the US......... there iv'e said it ....Happy now!!!
M
05-11-2004, 12:02 PM
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RE: BVM KingCat---How ARF is it?
If you want a really nice ARF that flies great, priced great, and looks great...I would reccomend getting a hold of Tam or Ehab at Tamjets, they seem to have cornerred the market on inexpensive ARF's and I know personnaly how well they fly and how little time they need to assemble. The ViperJet is one of the greatest flying sport jets on the market today and costs less then most accessory packages on the high dollar stuff. Tam does a great job adding speed brakes to this plane wich allows it to slow down to a crawl.
Just my experience and my opinion,
Dave
Just my experience and my opinion,
Dave
05-11-2004, 12:59 PM
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RE: BVM KingCat---How ARF is it?
you do have to buy from the US......... there iv'e said it ....Happy now!!!
05-11-2004, 03:43 PM
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RE: BVM KingCat---How ARF is it?
ORIGINAL: DavidR
Too bad about the exchange rate.
Too bad about the exchange rate.
Tom
05-11-2004, 03:55 PM
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RE: BVM KingCat---How ARF is it?
Excuse my ignorance,
But would the downthrust also help with slow flight, due to the vetical component of "Lift" or force vector that would come from the down thrust of the engine. Maybe similiar to the Radial component of lift that comes from a propellor?
Just curious. I know in propellor driven aircaft there is a pitch up moment created by the prop which must be compensated for by the stab..It's small, but present nontheless...
Regards,
Kevin
But would the downthrust also help with slow flight, due to the vetical component of "Lift" or force vector that would come from the down thrust of the engine. Maybe similiar to the Radial component of lift that comes from a propellor?
Just curious. I know in propellor driven aircaft there is a pitch up moment created by the prop which must be compensated for by the stab..It's small, but present nontheless...
Regards,
Kevin
05-11-2004, 04:38 PM
#35
RE: BVM KingCat---How ARF is it?
Anyone know what the hell Kevin is talking about?
If I bring my KC to Lake Wales I'm going to fill the fuel tanks with booze befor I leave UK.
M
If I bring my KC to Lake Wales I'm going to fill the fuel tanks with booze befor I leave UK.
M
05-11-2004, 05:00 PM
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RE: BVM KingCat---How ARF is it?
Maybe I should have started my post with "Please excuse OTHER peoples ignorance". I hope someone responds who has something worthwhile to say...We all know that an empty barrel makes the most noise..
Regards,
Kevin
Regards,
Kevin
05-11-2004, 05:54 PM
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RE: BVM KingCat---How ARF is it?
ORIGINAL: KevinBarr
But would the downthrust also help with slow flight, due to the vetical component of "Lift" or force vector that would come from the down thrust of the engine.
But would the downthrust also help with slow flight, due to the vetical component of "Lift" or force vector that would come from the down thrust of the engine.
We're chatting about KCats, not Eddie's "Thing" with the gimballated Oly.....
Only thing I know for sure about the angle of the engine dangle on the KC is that it guarantees grinding the tail cone and outer case of my pristine turbine, if the gear pukes in the up position and I'm on asphalt.....
Tom
05-11-2004, 10:03 PM
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RE: BVM KingCat---How ARF is it?
David,
I was aiming that at another person on this thread, but if you wish, I can fill your inbox with threats and shamefull anecdotes...
Tom, How are things in cheese head land? I hear we are going to be hosting you knuckle heads on Christmas Eve this year..should be a hoot!!
Regards,
Kevin
I was aiming that at another person on this thread, but if you wish, I can fill your inbox with threats and shamefull anecdotes...
Tom, How are things in cheese head land? I hear we are going to be hosting you knuckle heads on Christmas Eve this year..should be a hoot!!
Regards,
Kevin
05-12-2004, 02:24 AM
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RE: BVM KingCat---How ARF is it?
Scott,
The tailcone has a lot to do with the "plume" blast behind the engine. Also risidual swirl in the gas have some influence as well. Longer diverging-convergent cones tend to amplify the swirl. We opted for the shorter cone because we believe it to be more efficient. Since we get up to 160N with a 66mm wheel ( As oposed to a 70mm) it must have payed off.... Never considered the effect on stabs.
BTW the 200KS uses a 70mm turbine wheel and 74mm compressor so the cone is different to the 160. Would be interresting to see the effect on the KC.
Cheers
Andre
The tailcone has a lot to do with the "plume" blast behind the engine. Also risidual swirl in the gas have some influence as well. Longer diverging-convergent cones tend to amplify the swirl. We opted for the shorter cone because we believe it to be more efficient. Since we get up to 160N with a 66mm wheel ( As oposed to a 70mm) it must have payed off.... Never considered the effect on stabs.
BTW the 200KS uses a 70mm turbine wheel and 74mm compressor so the cone is different to the 160. Would be interresting to see the effect on the KC.
Cheers
Andre
05-12-2004, 08:59 AM
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RE: BVM KingCat---How ARF is it?
Hi Kevin:
Christmas Eve in Minnie??? How's about we talk to Miguel Santana and book a trip to the Dominican Republic instead..........
Any of the Red Green gang going to MAB or Tennessee?
Tom
Christmas Eve in Minnie??? How's about we talk to Miguel Santana and book a trip to the Dominican Republic instead..........
Any of the Red Green gang going to MAB or Tennessee?
Tom
