seanreit

My Feedback: (60)

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LOL

WONDERFUL

CFII1974

My Feedback: (5)

Don't you just love finding out stuff like that after the fact?
If my Euro weren't already a little on the heavy side I would think about a thicker pipe for it. Maybe my RAM will be nice to me and not give me any more wet starts for a while.

tamjets

My Feedback: (2)

Forgot to mention. Thicker pipe cost more to built. I hate work with .008. I got my hand cut couple time and it take almost twice as long. Even Olympus pipe I only use .007 thickness.
The trick to build pipe is how to construct the pipe. Not the heavy gauge metal.
How many of my pipe collaspe in normal using condition? I can tell you is 0.
Even after few hundred flight.
My best advise to everyone is change out the pipe when it turn blue. Even you are using .008.
Once the metal are over temp. The metal is no good.
Dave fly with the bad pipe and didn't collapse. Because he is lucky.
This can also happen to .008 thickness pipe if built not correct way.
If you guys notice my pipe is built different from everyone else pipe. The contruction of the pipe is very strong for it weight.
But if someone don't care for the weight and willing to pay 30% more. Ofcourse you can get .008 thickness pipe and the same strong construction method as .006.

But from my hornest experience. Kept things light is the best method. If some of you complain the nose is heavy. Move your accessory back.
I had built and assemble many different type jets in the past. Kept the airplane light and without add any dead weight is the key to successful modeler.
Most of the engine this day are very reliable. Like the Jetcat. Is very rare to get the wet start. Why worry about the pipe collapse if you don't even get the wet start.
Even with minor wet start. The pipe still can handle it. Only time the pipe goes bad when it turn blue.
It kind of weird. Customers always ask how light I can built they pipe. But never get the customer want his pipe to be heavy.
Building a light pipe and still very strong compare to other heavy pipe is my specialty. This is what I get pay for right?

Sean,
How many wet start with your Ram engine before you change out to the Jetcat engine?
How long is each wet start last?
How many flight after the pipe got damage before it collaspe?
I like to know for record.
TIA
Tam

CFII1974

My Feedback: (5)

Tam,
Did you get my new pipe put today?

Thanks Buddy!

seanreit

My Feedback: (60)

Tam, not one single wet start with the RAM 1000.

I was flying normal pattern, about 16 flights on my brand new isobar.

I was flying at a good clip but not full speed across the runway upwind and my spotter said he heard something at the engine.

I came around and did a very slow pass and he said "did you hear that" and I didn't hear anything. So I started coming back on the power and a yellow flame came out the back of the airplane. Spotter said "shut the engine down" but I was in such a precarious position and still had control of the airplane and thrust control that I thought at the time I needed to come a little bit back down wind. Around 8 seconds after the yellow flame started coming out the back (and keep in mind I was still flying very slow, so slow that the flame actually curled out the back of the plane and up at almost a full 90 degrees), I shut the engine down and deadsticked to a gear knockout landing.

Fixed the airplane, bought a Jetcat 120 and within two weeks of being down I was in the air again.

The flame issue happened at Lubbock last year. I made Greater SW Jet rally two weeks later and put around 25 flights on the airplane with the same pipe. Interestingly two things happened at that Greater SW that later made sense to me.

One was, I had asked a couple of people about the pipe. The response I heard was "these pipes are built to withstand those kinds of temperatures". This is NO BS. I asked like 5 people and all five told me to fly that pipe.

Two was really intersting. At Greater SW Bob Price was helping a guy with a Ram 1000 that was installed in an F-20 on the flight line.

I had a lot of bad experiances with RAM engines and so to see bob working on one was a little bit of a joke. Well, as he's ramping up the engine, we hear a loud bang and a fire erupts. Bob is looking around in disbelief, and everyone else is putting the fire out.

To this day I really don't have any idea why I didn't go over there and investigate throughly what happened. At the time I rememeber thinking "Ha, there goes another RAM, oh ya, they sure are good engines aren't they Bob". But my disgust in my RAM experiance clearly now cost me an airplane. Cause ladies and gentlmen, the pipe inside that F-20 collapsed and that would have been my first opportunity to find out that a pipe could collapse. And knowing me and the questions I ask when I see something fail, I would have gone home and bought a new pipe.

All for not turns out. As I took my jet home, PAINTED IT (as it had been flown all those flights in primer) and then showed up at FIJR last year. First run down the runway, get into the air and pop bang boom. My airplane was gone.

I didn't even have the wherewithall to run over and help put the fire out. I was disgusted and hurt.

Thanks Todd Whitkoff and others who did run over there and put the fire out.

Tam, that's the whole truth as I know it.

Sean

tamjets

My Feedback: (2)

Sean,
Your case is worst than a wet start. You got flame coming out from the engine during flight and it last longer than the pipe can handle. I'm suprise that you got 25 flight after that.
On the normal condition wet start only last 2-3 second than the engine spool up. The pipe can handle that everyday no problem.
But expose long period of wet fuel burning inside the pipe is a no no. Jet A and K1 is burn very hot.
If you guys remember the the world trade center. Jet A burning melt down the metal frame to cause the building collaspe. Not from the impact of the jetliner.
Common sense need to be use in our model jet to archieve the safety level. Don't expect someone to tell you is O.K. or not.
When I first flying Jet model. I knew the pipe can collaspe if expose to heat. That why I design double wall pipe to cool down instead using thermo blanket. Now everyone is catching on with double wall pipe system.
I wish that I remember to mention this on my website. But can't blame me. I got million things going on and just little time to do it.
I even don't have time to update my website for last 8 months and the last 6 months I only did little flying here and there.
I got to go.
The Skymaster F-18 need me to put on Chippy Ho paint scheme.
Tam

David Gladwin

Something to be learned here if it took 5-10 seconds to abort the start. May I suggest you guys start your model turbines the same way as we start fullsize ones. During the start cycle the operating pilot ALWAYS keeps his hand on the fuel control switch (start lever or HP cock lever or whatever it is called according to type) amd IMMEDIATELY any abnormality is noted fuel is switched off and the starter motor kept engaged to blow out any fuel and keep any flame moving through the engine in the correct direction. I keep my finger on the trim button on single chanel operation or the engine control switch for two channel ops until the start cycle is complete so that fuel can be immediately switched off if ANY abnormaility, particularly any significant flame from the tailpipe is observed. Problem is with model engines we cant just re-engage the starter unless the GSU is plugged in.

I think this full size practice is very relevant to model jet operation, it may save a nasty tailpipe fire.

Regards,

David Gladwin.

CFII1974

My Feedback: (5)

My "blues" are over. (see picture)
The new pipe came today in time for flying this weekend!

Thanks to Tam for the fast work and the USPS for getting it here in one piece.