ozandy

Hi all,

I need some advice on a bundled kit I bought from ModelFlight in SA Australia.
Some background: I learned to fly a friend's petrol heli about 10 years ago. I couldn't afford one and hated the messing around with fuel, engines, etc, but absolutely loved flying it. I could hover stable and do some SLOW figure 8s. I'd almost forgotten about helis, but this forum and others convinced me that electric helis have come of age. 20 minutes outdoor flight, with indoor option for bad weather, what more could we want?

So I took the plunge and forked out $650 for the Twister (HoneyBee, Esky, etc) CP heli bundeled with JR Max 66 Radio, reciever, gyro, servos and charger. It looked to me to be "complete" enough to get in the air without too much hassle, and I wouldn't have to upgrade the heli and radio once I remembered how to fly. I am definitely not interested in FP.
Being new to electric, please forgive (and correct!) my misconceptions!

Here are the problems I have encountered:
-The kit came with a 3 cell LiPo pack, but a 2 cell charger.

-Swash-servo linkages missing, so cannot even begin to setup heli. (I rang ModelFlight and they will correct these 2 issues today, no probs)

-gyro supplied (Esky EMSGOA) had no manual. The battery, main moter and tail motor plugs are obvious, as is setting gain and proportional. What I would like to know is the ESC specs (Max voltage, cutoff voltage, governing mode) and the BEC specs. Is this thing cool with a 11.1V LiPo? Will it cook my Rx?

-Also the throttle and rudder leads to plug into the Rx (JR 610M) have plugs that phisically do not fit in the Rx! They are rectangular, whereas the servo plugs (that do fit) have a corner taken out (a bevel) to ensure correct orientation. It appears I must shave the corners off the gyro plugs to fit them into the Rx. This should not be necessary surely! Usually with electronics, plugs that do not fit mean "this should not go here!". I am awaiting a resonse about this.

-The Rx has no dedicated power input (unlike any radio I have seen). Can the Rx recieve power from any of the servo inputs, or must it be channel 6, marked as "Aux 1/Batt"?
I hope it is any input because Aux1 is the pitch servo, not a lead from the gyro/BEC.

-Tx manual was a photocopy, with 1 missing page and occasional illegible text. A bit shabby.
-No manual for Rx, supplied manual for different Rx intended for petrol helis.

-Servos are Saturn S54. These seem like good servos but...
-They are physically smaller than the heli servo brackets, meaning the tape will actually take sheer load rather then just holding them snug.
-The servo arms do not protrude forwards enough to line up under the swash balls, the linkages would need to be angled forwards, which would reduce torque and eventually ream out the servo arm holes. To mount the servos correctly, I would need to cut the helis servo bracket and work out a custom mounting.
-If mounted in thier brackets, the leads barely make the Rx tray. The close one can be rounted sort-of OK, but the furthest one needs to be almost stretched (!) and rests up against the motor (!!).
This makes me thing the S54s are not ideal for this heli.

-Main motor is RK-370SD-4045. When I google it I discovered this:
http://www.mabuchi-motor.co.jp/cgi-b...AT_ID=rk_370sd which says it can handle 4.5 - 9.6V.
Can anyone confirm/deny that the RK-370SD-4045 can handle higher voltage than RK-370SD-2870, or will I cook this motor with a 11.1V LiPo?
The tail motor is somewhat obscured, but has "4610" as the last 4 digits. Will this be cooked, or is it OK?

-Although fully assembled, the pitch linkages were setup so that pitch goes from about 30 degrees -ve at full swash up, to about 2 degrees +ve at full swash down. I am OK with adjusting this, but I wish they had left it unassembled if it was to be so out of whack.
Is it correct to say the best setup is 0 pitch when swash is physically centered, then use servo travel and pitch curves to initially restrict to 0 - 8 degres for practice?
Ie. whan I want to utilise -ve pitch, I change the Tx settings not the heli setup?

As you can see I'm having lots of fun. I've kind of lost confidence that my kit has been put together by competent staff. If I can just get the electrics sorted then I'll be back into territory I can relate to (swash, pitch, balancing, gyro setup and FLYING!)
Any advice appreciated. (Sorry for the essay!)

Cheers, Andy.

Aerohawk

All I can say is go back to modelflight and ask all these questions!!!!

ozandy

I have already done so. Unfortunately their email response is measured in days, so I thought I would see if others have had the same deal, or if I got unlucky. I am haven't given up on ModelFlight yet! They tell me they have sold a few of the kit, I was hoping someone else who bought the same package might have some info or advice.

ozandy

Just recieved from ModelFlight:

"Hi
You seem to have a few problems that I think would be best fixed first time if we get the Heli back here, I can then sort these out and test fly the heli and then ship that back to you. I can do this for you for no cost, I can even credit you for the postage required as you seem to have problems that shouldn’t happen.
Please send the Heli and all parts sent so that I can do this for you and then get it back to you early next week."

Although I would have preferred everything to be sorted so I could complete it myself, this is a pretty good offer and shows they care about customer service.
I'll post again with a closing summary when I get it back.

jt_aus

Hio Andy,

I guess you need to look at the background of the E-Sky to see why you are having so many problems.

The Chinese manufacturer only produces a 72MHz Tx and Rx and supplies as an RTF Kit. They recently produced a 35Mhz Version (easy change to 36MHz for Australia)... BUT... will not release to Australia because of an agreemant with a European importer (I think they OEM'd the 35Mhz under license or something).

Soooo.... the 3D Esky (CP Version) can only be sold in Australia with a 3rd party (all be it better quality) Tx and Receiver. So the situation is that Model Engines and Model Flight import the E-Sky Honeybee (renamed Twister for the Oz Market), and then bundle alternative Rx and Tx to make an RTF kit. Problem is, there needs to be a bit of Re-Jigging to get all the components working together (which seems just to be physical connector issues).

I am keen to see how you go.

Cheers,

JT

ozandy

Thanks JT, I appreciate the background info.
I noticed they no longer have the bundle I bought on the website, so I guess I'm not the only one with problems.
I will be sure to fill you in just as soon as I can test it.

It arrived today, 3 weeks after it was originally promised. I have not had a chance to test it yet.
(despite my instructions it was sent via courier. As I work 9-5 I must now drive to the warehouse to pick it up [:@])
I must say I have not been impressed with ModelFlight as a company. They do not answer emails or phone calls (well...they reply a week later but generally change the subject), will not answer straightforward questions and I have been lied to regarding what they have done. I suspect they are more an import/dispach company rather than RC experts. They certainly need customer service training! I was VERY close to demanding a refund (decided the stress wasn't worth it now I actually have the heli, but it had better be good!).
I will now try heli-fever.com or one of the others for the inevitable spares to (hopefully!) avoid being stuffed around.

gravity

Hey there,
I also ordered from modelflight SA, i ordered the 2004 Dragonfly bundled with the JR Max 66.
Was a total newb to helicopters other than online research and knowing it'll be a challenge.

Anyway at first i was worried, as the servo's were a different size to the brackets, etc, one servo arm was too long to fit unobstructed.
I also had the photocopied Tx manual, and the standard dragonfly assembly instruction.
Anyway some slight modding and cutting, put it all together, and got a great buzz when i throttled up and the blades started turning.

Anyway i have had to order a new tail motor, and rotor and other 'normal' learning parts that get broken. I have had good sevice from them, they rush spares to me asap(live in Darwin). The initial heli i got was able to fly 'out of the box' just had to do some slight mods.
Anyway just thought i'd share a good story about them(they havent pissed me off yet basically).

I just don't know yet how well they stock their shelves. I am waiting on a tail rotor blade on backorder(fortunately ive only snapped the tip off one blade, so still useable).

ozandy

It's nice to hear a good news story! I think I may have been a little unlucky with the bundle, and perhaps the individual involved.
The huge delays and email silence had me pretty pissed off.

Now my good news: I got it back last night, took it out of the box and saw what they had done:
-The plug incompatibility issues seem to be solved by shaving the plugs from the gyro to add the bevels needed to fit the Rx. It was apparently just a physical issue.
-The servo leads were extended using short extensions with plugs at each end.
-Servo arms were chopped and rounded.
-The servos are not realy as secure as I would have liked, there being a bit of slop. Maybe this is a good thing to protect them in a crash?

Anyway, I powered it up and set to programming the Tx. Had to reverse one servo, then adjust the CCPM.
Got the CCPM settings to a reasonable level fairly quickly. I just wanted the swash to move in the correct way and have no servo binding at extreme stick positions (Used throttle hold and disconnected main motor lead to adjust swash, discovered tail rotor is pretty strong when accidently switched off throttle hold!) The JR 66 is pretty easy to program, although I wish it had 5 point curves instead of 3.
Then spun it up and played with revo mixing. Lots of work to do here to get it perfect (does it ever end?), but I got it to the point where it basically did its job. Could get close to max headspeed and make the tail move both directions with rudder. Then I adjusted the pitch curve for hover practice (0 deg low, 10ish high). Promptly blew all the paperwork from my workbench next time it spun up (which was strangely exciting). Got it to the "light on the skids" stage and moved it around a little.
At this stage I was frazzled and had had too many beers, so it was time to quit for the night.
Now I have to mount the battery securely to balance the heli (seems to need the battery all the way forward with the gyro to balance. I don't want to use trim weight!)
Also need to balance blades to minimise vibes.
At last the fun has begun!

ozandy

Final post: I now have it flying and am in need of crash spares!
I made up a battery holder from balsa wood, cable tied it to the frame. Also made up a neoprene (wetsuit rubber) battery holder to protect it and to make it easy to get battery in and out of heli. This makes balancing and re-charging easy.
Before the encounter with a dumb-bell it was flying really well, although my hover skills have a long way to go! Sensitive little suckers these micro helis!
I have ordered two new main rotors and tail rotors, as well as a 1200 MaH battery from heli-fever, so should be in the air again soon.
Intended upgrades: direct drive tail motor and blades, brushless motor, HH gyro, better brain for flying.
Cheers.

ozandy

One more update...
Changed Tx from mode 1 to mode 2. This makes it *so* much easier to fly! (JR max 66 Tx is very easy to modify)
Made some training legs from bamboo skewers and tape (bubble wrap rolled & taped instead of ping-pong balls). This was well worth it and the 10c spent has probably saved many $.
Created blade balancer out of two paperclips. Used this to re-balance my broken blades and so can fly again! After balancing, it is now smoother than it was with undamaged stock blades. (paperclip balancer is pretty accurate!)
Getting about 12 minutes flying time just hovering in loungeroom. Heaps of power. Can't wait to take it outside.
Looking at getting GY240 gyro and seperates next. (also looking longingly at Trex. This hobby is worse than motorcycles and parachuting put together!)

Poll

Nice, I don't think I've heard more horror stories than I have with helis heh.

ozandy

The heli itself seems OK to me (so far), it is more the way it is sold bundled with stuff which needs mods but has no instructions.
Have to add this comment: Folks, remove your flybar weights! They are supposed to "slow down the cyclic response to make it more stable". Yeah right! From what I can tell they just create more lag and hence make it a lot harder to keep up with the heli. Maybe this worked with bigger helis, but with micros it does not seem to. You need fast response to control a fast heli. I got much better hovers (can hold it within 2 foot square now) once the weights were removed.