IanB

My Feedback: (1)

Considering the 3w106 or bme110 or zdz160 for a carden 35%extra................anybody any thoughts?

The bme Id run on large cans the other two on stadard bolt-ons

Do any of you experienced guys have ROCK SOLID no bs numbers for these engines?

Heard/seen wildly differing numbers for all of these engines and need some hard facts!

Any impressions on the running and handling of these motors would be valued.

thanks in advance, Ian Beveridge

wingburner

My Feedback: (17)

Ian,I built a 35% Carden Extra last year and powered it with a ZDZ 100 NG.The ZDZ 160 won't fit in the cowl.The 100 has good power but not extremely good vertical.I bought a BME 110 with intensions of putting it in the Extra but I'm going to leave the 100 in it.I don't have any #'s for the 110 but my 100 swings a Menz S 26/[email protected] ZDZ 160 I think is overkill,the 110 would be perfect.My Extra weighs 28.5 lbs and I have KS canisters on it.The ZDZ 120 would be perfect other than it won't fit in the cowl either.The BME might have as power as the 120 though.Hope this helps a little.By the way the ZDZ is A strong little engine and pulls the Extra very very well.

Jack

IanB

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks Jack glad to hear the zdz100 is good!

The reason for my questions is that my Carden edge with da100 on regular bolt ons was fairly rearward in c o g unless I stuffed most of the gear in the nose..........I dont want to do that with the extra so I am exploring other options!!

The zdz will fit in the plane apart from the plug cap on the left hand side...........I blew the schematic up too full size and fitted it over the Carden plan.

My thinking with the 160 is that it is the same weight and size as the 120 but obviosly more power. The weight of this engine on regular mufflers is very very close to the weight of the 3w106 or the da100 on big in fuz cans. I could run a large 3 blader at low rpm with great downline breaking and insane power for the same weight AND cost as the da/3w/big fuz muffler combinations.

I thought of a DA100 on cans but I am very doubtfull large cans actually add any rpm at all and you just end up 2lbs heavier for no gain other than quieter. I have called DA on this and they say the can dont add any power at all just quieter.

So then there is the 3w106 which may or may not be more powerfullthan the DA but may also run stronger on its designed large mufflers (very curious as to what rpm numbers and handling characteristics EXPERIENCED users report)..........never seen one run so hence my curiosity........any input welcome on that one please.

The bme110 on big in fuz cans..........no weight penalty for the big cans but does it really perform as good as its supposed too.............I have seen a few run and to be truthfull I thought they had quite a bit of vibration and werent really as strong as I hoped..........BUT maybe someone out there can relate there experiences?
Very curious and would be very happy for any input/reports
on this engine.

Open minded on all of this and keen to hear anyones thoughts!!

I have no problem with DA at all but interested in exploring other options..........

Kindest regards IanB

wingburner

My Feedback: (17)

If you don't mind a hole in your cowl,by al means stuff the ZDZ 160.Would be absolutely awesome.I had to put some stuff forward on my Extra and put 1 LB of lead in the nose.After 6 flights I removed all the lead.I can't comment on the BME as I haven't run mine yet.If you put a 160 in plz let me know,very curious.Would be half throttle all day other than straight outasight vertical.

Have fun Jack

IanB

My Feedback: (1)

Please guys i know there are guys out there with these motors perhaps even in this aircraft..................... anyone?

JPrc

My Feedback: (22)

I have a 3W 106ss that was in the Carden 35% edge. The plane weighed 30lbs and the motor pulled the weight with authority. I ran a menz 28x10 and the motor turned it at 6500rpms hot in 90+ degree weather. This was done several times with different tachs. One of the guys at my field had a BME 110 on a hanger 9 edge. The combination was ballistic but the plane weighed 21 lbs so you would expect it to be. I sold him the 28x10 menz and he ran it on his edge, it tached 6100. I now have the 106 in a CA Yak 2.6m that weighs 24.5 lbs, the performance is incredible. I also run a 29x10 mejlick for Imac, the motor has no problem turning this prop and is very quiet on standard mufflers. IMO the 106 is the strongest running motor in the 100-110 class.

IanB

My Feedback: (1)

wow thats pretty impressive could you give me a little more info on the set especially what mufflers you used?

Can you elaborate on the overall handling of the motor , break in time and procedure, starting reliability etc

Also anyone out there with the BME or ZDZ160????

Tim_Indy

Hey Ian, as you know, I also run the BME 110, and could not be more pleased. Since most 35% planes are going to weigh 28 to 30 pounds on average (my Wild Hare 35% Extra is 30 pounds), you'll need power to do the job, and any of the big three (DA, BME, 3W) make power. I won't get into the "mine is stronger than yours" because of the variables involved, but a major consideration for me was noise, and I'm loving the fact that my BME 110 with the large Pefa LL cannisters weighs less than a DA with stock mufflers, so the cannisters have ZERO weight penalty. Power AND quiet is good!

Initially, I quickly saw that a 27" prop wasn't going to be enough for my 110, and after trial and error, settled on the Mejlik 28x10 as my prop of choice. As the engine broke in and got stronger, the Mejlik started to howl (static at 6700 rpm), so I went with the Air Wild NX 28x10 which dropped rpm to 6400, and still pulled GREAT while being quiet. Several gallons later, the engine was really coming in enough so that now the NX 28x10 was howling (6700 static). I then went with the Biela 28x10 which is a bit more load than the Menz 28x10. The Biela has a wide chord, providing excellent downline braking. It has good "bite" at lower rpm, so that it hovers at a lower throttle setting (about 1/3) and each "click" of throttle shows a noticeable bounce. BTW, the 110 turns the Biela at 6500 rpm. Yepper, this is my new favorite combo. I might try out the Mejlik 29x10 when the new season gets here.

As you know, Indy is about 800 feet above sea level, so anyone else reading this can factor in any conversion factor necessary.

JPrc

My Feedback: (22)

The mufflers are johnson smoke mufflers. This motor exhibited the same characteristics while breaking in as Tim mentioned with his 110. After every gallon or two the motor keeps getting stronger. One thing I have noticed about the 3W motors I have run is most of them are very tight when they are new and require at least 10 gallons to break-in properly. Most people expect the motor to run great out of the box turning larger props. The handling characteristics of the motor are very good. Spool-up time is excellent, I did have to put a carb plate from troybuilt models when I put the motor on my Yak. When the motor was in my edge the transition was smooth as silk but the carb was enclosed in the cowl. In my Yak the carb is directly in the air flow and the transition became rough, with the addition of the carb plate and re-tuning my needles the transition is great. I have never run cans on any of my 3W but according to several people that have there is an increase in performance but there is a weight penality unlike the BME like Tim suggested.

flyinrazrback

My Feedback: (69)

Either a 110 or 106. My 110 may have only turned a menz 28x10 at 6100, but its not a fair comparison to spindocs 106. His motor I believe has 15 gallons or so through the motor, and my 110 only on the 3rd gallon running lawnboy 32:1. I believe the 110 when broken in is as strong as any 100-106 out there, but the benefit of being 1.5lbs lighter. Will the carden balance with the 110? only with the cans, and the bme on cans puts outs some pretty good juice. My 106 was no slouch either, it was well broken in and pulled the snot out of a 33% AW Extra. Cant go wrong with either one. What I like most about the BME and DAs are they are american products, and like to buy american products, but thats just me. You could always stick a 200cc in it just to make sure you have enough power

IanB

My Feedback: (1)

Hey guys thanks so much for the input.......very helpfull.

Tim great talking to you always a great exchange and some good laughs too.......thankyou sir.
Sounds like you have a real horse of a motor .........how do you think the NX 28 incher compares with a menz of the same size Tim? Hey I had a great thought if I was still tailheavy with the BME I could put in a smoke system for no effective penalty!!! Sounds good huh!!

Spindoc one thing Id like to know is what version is your 106 ie QQ AI or regular?......do you think or have you seen differences in performance between the 3 available treatments of the engine? Are you running a 3w ignition , have you had any cab block issues. I am asking this because obviously you see people with troubles but you also see people doing some rather odd things with gas motors if they are new to the genre!! That being the case I vaule your opinion as you are obviously experienced. Also If i was going with the 106 where would you suggest to purchase from?

Flyinrazorback I have to ask you why did you change from 3w. How is your 110 performing now? The zdz 160 I dont think is such a crazy thought.......after all the airplane doesn't know or care what the cc of the engine is, only the weight and power. Like I said it is interesting because it weighs the same as most 100class engine with big fuz mufflers for the same ish cost but a butt load (technical term!!) more power.

Anyone out there with the zdz160 perhaps in this application. Dick ? Bueller? Anybody?

Kindest regards, Ian

Tim_Indy

Ian, yepper, great hearing your voice again also! In terms of 28 x 10 inch prop load from least to most (of the ones I've tried), I'd say Mejlik, Air Wild NX, Menz, Biela. And yeah, the smoke system can serve double duty!!

rmh

The planes here fly OK on 100 cc engines - No one here has a BME110 so - we simply can't compare that engine --
As soon as we go over 26 llbs - the really snappy recovery performance is gone - any 100 but we really operate at 4300 to 7000 ft in summer weather .
The 160 with in cowl mufflers is a pound+ heavier than the 3W and DA 100's.
Performance - can't really be compared -totally in different class.
But weight - these models with wing loadings up in the mid 30's suffer at low speeds .
No engine fixes that .
The 160 adds instant hover power so that part of low speed is fixed - seriously---
It is the throtle back performance that takes a hit -just simply from the weight.
for me --any model over 24 lbs with a 100 -is just not my cup of tea.
I like 18-20 lbs .
So -I make my own
most guys have abandoned that approach --times change .

Diablo-RCU

My Feedback: (1)

Heavy 35% planes work fine in Indiana.....
As others have pointed out, most will weigh around 28-30 lbs. A strong 100cc motor will give great performance on standard in-cowl mufflers. The 3W-100 or 106 or DA-100 will be fine in the Carden. I haven't seen a BME-110 in a big plane so I can't compare it. A buddy had a Carden Cap that weighed 34 lbs with a DA-100 and the vertical performance was still unlimited. The plane was unusually heavy because it needed over 3 lbs of lead in the nose for balance.
Be thankful we have thick air.

IanB

My Feedback: (1)

thanks Diablo your post really sums up all my oints as to why the 160 is very good contender for this aircraft!

Now Dick when you say the 160 is a pound and a half heavier than a da100 what exactly are you comparing as far as muffler systems go.........my GUESS........is that the 160 weighs the SAME as any 100cc class engine / large fuz muffler combo APART from the BME.

as illustrated by Diablo the Cardens need a little different weight distrubution than some and so my interest in the 160.

Have you put a 160 in a 35% er and how did it perform??

PaulBK

rather than build the airplane stock and over power it with the 160, why not look for opportunities to lighten it - of which there are many in a Carden - and shoot for the 26 - 27lbs, a weight in which a 3w or DA will fly it very well. i can't think of any reason to hang an engine made for a 40% airplane on the nose of the 35% airplane, regardless of what it weighs. planes do funny things when they are over powered - we hung a DA 100 on the nose of an Aeroworks Suhkoi, and the thing will literally would skid sideways when I hit the throttle. we also have a DA 100 on the nose of glider tug that is easily pushing 30lbs...and that airplane will easily do any IMAC figure through Intermediate. my vote, lighten it and go with a good 100. [sm=lol.gif]

IanB

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks for the reply Paul.........

First off the airframe is built.........second,the problem is its tailheavy therefore its not just about making it lighter but moving the cog forward........i know the da100 has plenty of power for a 28lbs frame but I would have to add weight to the nose ie put it on cans! I dont believe the can adds any real power to the da100 as confirmed by DA by a phonecall. Third, the zdz is around the same weight as the da100 or 3w106 on cans but way more power ,hence, why not !!

flyinrazrback

My Feedback: (69)

Ian, I cant comment on the 110 now. I sold the airplane and motor after the 3rd gallon, not due to the engine or airplane, just was looking for something else to play with. The 110 is like the 106, just takes quite a bit of time on the motor to make it sing. I didnt really switch from 3W to anything else, just wanted to try the 110 since I had already had a 106 and DA.