jimlang

My Feedback: (9)

I am a sport flyer that tends to bang the sticks around too much. I once had an overweight 25% Giles with a Moki that would snap if I pulled too hard on the elevator. For a stick banger that pulls the elevator in a panic, that spells disaster... I currently have a DP Ultimate 120 with a YS-140 and love it.

My Ideal gasser:
1. Must fly light so I can bang the sticks (at least for now).
2. Well built to take my hard landings
3. Good plane to learn IMAC Basic schedule.

I will be using a DA-50 or ZDZ-? for the engine.

I have read the Yak 54 postings and the Wagstaff thread. I just don't know. Some of my flying buddies have recommended the GP Wagstaff Extra 300S. RCU review of the Wild Hare 35% Giles with a ZDZ-80 looked tempting, but maybe too much $$ for my first. What do you think?

Thanks for the help,
Jim

avionics12

My Feedback: (12)

Last June I had the same questions and qualifications as you. I finally decided on a WildHare Extra Special 28% with a DA50. Without a doubt a very good aircraft to start learning the Basic sequences. It is stable, well built and forgiving on those gravity induced landings. The price is right also.

I have JR 8611's on the surfaces and have enjoyed every minute of learning the Basic sequences. This plane instilled so much confidence in me that I am now building a Comp ARF 2.6 Yak to "grow into". Of course, YMMV.

Randy

jimlang

My Feedback: (9)

Hey Randy,
can you give me an idea of how much elevator panic I can get away with on the WildHare Extra Special? What was your final weight?

Thanks

Stick Jammer

If you just want to fly IMAC, keep the elevator throw on low rate. Large aerobatic planes don't need much elevator for pitch control and most of them are gonna snap if you have the throw set too high and start yanking the stick.

torqmeister

Suggest you consider a Brison 3.2 on the Wild hare28%. It's priced at $449 & it is a very powerful and reliable engine. Yesterday at our field had a Wildhare 28% & DA50, & I had a Patty Wags & Brison 3.2. We both used the same BME 22/8 prop, he turne 6,360 rpm & I turned 6.680 rpm. Everyone agreed my plane had more pull in the uplines, & better overall power. Now don't tell me DA is more powerful than a Brison, & certainly not worth the extra $100.00. A man with an experience is never at he mercy of a man with an argument. I am glad I listened to Silversurfer on this thread, & researced the available options before going lockstep to a DA50. By the way, my Brison was on it's 3rd 16oz. tank of gas & the DA had over 4 gallons through it. The guy with the DA said he wished he would have bought a Brison. I just bought my 2nd Brison 3.2 in less than a mo.

Diablo-RCU

My Feedback: (1)

I'll throw another plane at ya for IMAC Basic. Consider the Double Vision. More money than the Wildhare Extra, but it's a biplane based on a very good pattern plane, designed for a 50cc gasser. Rolling maneuvers are awesome...landing is a breeze.

jimlang

My Feedback: (9)

I like the Double Vision. Had a chance to buy one with a DA-50 from a flyer at my field. My only reservation is that I already have an IMAC legal DP Ultimate. I was thinking an Extra may fly the schedule with a little more precision. This next plane will be setup for IMAC maneuvers and I will use the DP Ultimate for the "fun stuff�.

sillyness

My Feedback: (25)

FWIW... I suggest you fly a little and learn to stop "banging the sticks" before you move up to a larger airplane.

Bob Laine

My Feedback: (91)

I would suggest that a better way to test the performance between the DA 50, and Brison 3.2, would be to use a Tach. Too many variables just looking at the "verticle climb between two different aircraft. That's kinda like taking two identicle Glo engines and running one on 30% nitro, and the other on 5% nitro. Not a very fair test of performance. just my 2cents worth.

jimlang

My Feedback: (9)

Learning to fly a little is not the problem. Flying larger airplanes is much different than smaller ones. IMHO, I need to learn how to fly big airplanes by flying them. I do not think stepping up from a 13 lb. plane to a 17 lb. plane is unreasonable. I am asking the group there HO opinion of the most forgiving large airplane that would be good for IMAC.

avionics12

My Feedback: (12)

After puting the "Rabbit" on the Atkins diet plan, the final weight is 18.6 lbs and I understand that is heavy for this plane. I have "hit the sticks" on high rates-125% of throw-with no problems.

I have an analogy about banging the sticks and how to learn finesse and control. It can not be written here. If you would like to know, PM me.

PaulBK

There are a lot of good airplanes that would be fine in basic through intermediate in the 50cc size range. The finished weight should be around 15-16lbs to have competitive vertical performance. No one airplane has ever dominated this size and there are many good choices. My only reservation would be a Giles anything, as they are short coupled and don't have the damping of an extra or edge. In competition, what you fly is a lot less important than how you fly it and how it is set-up.

sillyness

My Feedback: (25)

OK... I was just looking out for your best interest.

It was just the way your original post read that made me a little nervous for you... it was the phrase "pulls the elevator in panic" that caught my eye. It made me think of other pilots who "punch the throttle in panic" etc etc. I just hate to see people have problems.

Good luck!

FWIW, I had a Wildhare Extra Special. Liked it. Sold it this fall to go bigger. You need to take steps to keep it as light as possible or it can get a little snappy on you. But, with a light setup and the correct CG, it is a nice airplane.

If I had to do it over I would DEFINITLY go for the EF Yak if you can get one. Seems more expensive at first, but believe me, you will be into more money with the Wildhare once you get a light wing tube, servos arm, control horns, etc....

My .02.

tail strike

My Feedback: (1)

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I went from 60 size sport planes to this Wild Hare 27% Edge and I love it. It is easy to fly and lands so gracefully.

ben beyer

My Feedback: (23)

I want to give another vote for the Wild Hare Extra Special. Tom just put a wing with a new airfoil on it for IMAC. Great price for a great airplane and flexible when it comes time to choose an engine.

Mike Bogh

My Feedback: (14)

Hideho all,
I own both the Brison 3.2 and the DA~50...the Brison is just as powerful as my DA...but that's not the defining factor, for me.
Love my Brison, wouldn't sell it, OK, got that out of the way.
Were I to purchase another new 50CC class engine, it would always be Desert Aircraft, period. (or any other gasser, brand new)
The defining factor is the service you will receive after the sale.
Yes I know that no one wants to consider that their engine will need service when they are caught up in the moment of weighing new VS used, 100 bucks saved is..well, a JR 8611..or any number of items that will chew up a C-note faster than an order of fries from Micky D's.
Do DA's need service more often?
Not considering the amount of units sold compared to any other brand. Look, you read everywhere consistently, that DA has the best customer service in any industry, period.
It's not opinion, it's a fact.
I plowed my DA into a telephone pole while shooting touch and go's last September that was on the ground being used as a parking abutment (yea, I know, didn't see it) at
a pretty quick clip. Center punched the pole smack dab in the spinner/exposed head in my WHEdge..filled every fin facing forward packed with wood from said pole (didn't break one fin amazingly enough). I left the wood embedded in the head and sent it to DA for examination..(thought they would get a laugh out of it.)..
Got it back a week later, new crank, all new bearings, piston, updated con-rod and repaired the ignition wire/boot.
The bill?
Zero..zip..nada...nothing but a thank you for flying Desert Aircraft.
So I called them to ask why..the answer was this is just how we do it, we want you to be satisfied, so when you consider another engine purchase we hope you choose DA.
Ummm, yep, got it..thanks.
Is that worth a hundred bucks?
Damn Skippy it is.
So there you have it, there is inherent value in the additional money spent to purchase DA over any other brand regardless of weight, power, looks, design, whatever.
If I were needing/buying used, and found a smokin deal on another Brison 3.2 I'd swoop, no question.
But brand spankin' new?
Gotta be DA baby.

rctom

A DA 50 is good for basic-through-intermediate IMAC up to at least 18 lbs, maybe even 20. Intermediate is not very demanding of power, there are no upline snaps, the closest thing to that is a single snap on a 45 upline. Even IMAC advanced only has one single upline snap, that might challenge a 20 pound plane with a DA-50.

IMAC, at least in the lower classes, does not require massive amounts of power like you would need for hovering and strong 3d. A DA 50 will hover an 18 lb. plane and pull it out of that hover, so to say that you need a plane under 16 lbs. for IMAC is just not true, no matter what brand airplane you fly.

There are people flying IMAC with the 90" Comp ARF Extra. CA specs that plane at 20-22 lbs.

Don't get confused between IMAC type flying and 3D, it's a completely different world.

Tom Fawcett
Wild Hare R/C

torqmeister

With all due respect, Bob, I gave the rpm readings. I couldn't have done that without a tach.

jimlang

My Feedback: (9)

I am going to a RC Swap Meet in Perry, GA this Friday. I will keep an eye out for a good deal on one of these planes. Nobody has mentioned the GP Wagstaff. Is it not a serious contender for IMAC Basic?

sillyness,
The EF Yak sounds like a nice flyer. I was having a hard time justifying the higher price, but you have a good point about the included extras. The main gear may not be up to my landings, but I guess I can add some reinforcement. I think EF will be at the swap meet since they are located in Buford where I live. Maybe they will give me a good deal in Perry?

torqmeister

JimLang, The Patty Wagstaff is anoutstanding IMAC plane. There isn't a manuever that I can think of that it won't do. It is a very smooth flyer. I have one with a Brison 3.2, giving it unlimited vertical, & for flying 3D. Mine weighs 16.25 lbs. Rather than talking about specific name brands, let me say, it is very important to be in the 16lb. range to achieve unlimited 3D performance. A good IMAC plane can probably go as high as 18lbs. The Wild Hare planes fly very well also. I have a new 87" YAK54 that I'm relly excited abot. Just my $.02.

sillyness

My Feedback: (25)

Dude... you live by Chris and haven't stopped by to take a look at his planes!!![X(] That's it... you move to Canada and you can have my house... I'll take yours.

All kidding aside... the price will come out the same or cheaper with the EF Yak... plus I forgot... you get wingbags and a fuse bag with it too!!! As for the gear... the lighter the plane the easier those hard landings are on the gear. Also... don't quote me, but I don't think that the EF gear is pure carbon... I think it's a fiberglass type gear which makes it much stronger.

To throw one more wrench in your equation... you can put a Hangar 9 33% Extra or Edge together for about the same price as a 27-28%. It is a MUCH larger plane and the new breeds are VERY light (21-22 lbs range for the Edge). There's a guy on RCU selling a New in Box ZDZ-80 WITH smoke muffler for $570... that's what you'd pay for a DA-50 WITHOUT muffler (add about $100 for pitts muffler for the DA). I'm running my Edge on 1 servo per aileron (with minimal mods), 1 per elevator half, and on the rudder (8611s). You will be into servos for $75 more than you would for 5945s if you shop well... a lot of places offer reduced prices if you buy 4 or more servos, like Dons Hobby Shop, plus you could get NIB on RCU). You can use about the same power system as you would for the 28%... I'm using the same one I had in my 28%... 2 Fromeco 2200 batts, 2 Fromeco switched regs. That'll cost about $45 more than NiCds or NiMh since you won't have to buy high quality switches. Finally, you can usually find a NIB plane for about $600. Total... I would guess you may be into the 33% for about $0 to $500 more than a nice 28% setup, depending how well you shop... it WILL fly better.