Other twin ARF?
10-07-2005, 03:09 PM
#1
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (14)
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Hayden,
ID
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Other twin ARF?
Are there any twin engine ARFs out there besides the Twinstar? I lost my duellist and need a home for the pair of 46s.
If there are choices, what does anyone recommend?
Thank you in advance for your help.
If there are choices, what does anyone recommend?
Thank you in advance for your help.
10-07-2005, 03:22 PM
#2
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mary Esther, Florida, FL
Posts: 20,205
Likes: 0
Received 15 Likes
on
14 Posts
RE: Other twin ARF?
Stupid:
Try the Twin Stick from Cedar Hobbies. http://www.cedarhobbies.net/
The site is down right now, but you can phone Neil at (832) 202-7343. Cost is about $110 for the kit.
I like it, Ed Moorman likes it, and Twinman likes it. We can't all be wrong.
Haw.
Bill.
Try the Twin Stick from Cedar Hobbies. http://www.cedarhobbies.net/
The site is down right now, but you can phone Neil at (832) 202-7343. Cost is about $110 for the kit.
I like it, Ed Moorman likes it, and Twinman likes it. We can't all be wrong.
Haw.
Bill.
10-07-2005, 03:44 PM
#3
My Feedback: (77)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Bryan, TX
Posts: 3,157
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Other twin ARF?
Try a World Models P-82 TWIN MUSTANG...Nice and Sport Scale...This is a great handling plane... If you just want a sport plane that is a stick with wing/nacelles go with the TWIN STICK... I hear great things about it....You pay more for the Twin Mustang...but it is a nice way to have something that is "WarBird, Sport and historical"/// I could be wrong though!!!HA HA
http://ecsvr.com/abm/shopexd.asp?id=6
http://www.airborne-models.com/html/...p?ProductID=23
http://www.sheldonshobbies.com/listing/aim.html
AIM145S P-82 TWIN MUSTANG (SILVER).............. 329.99
http://ecsvr.com/abm/shopexd.asp?id=6
http://www.airborne-models.com/html/...p?ProductID=23
http://www.sheldonshobbies.com/listing/aim.html
AIM145S P-82 TWIN MUSTANG (SILVER).............. 329.99
10-08-2005, 09:59 AM
#6
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (14)
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Hayden,
ID
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Other twin ARF?
That is indeed a nice plane. It looks great, and it sounds like it has good performance.
It looks a bit large for 2 46s. Have you ever clocked the top speed on a gun or with a stopwatch?
Just curious. My duellist was my first (and only) twin ever. It flew just fine until I decided to "go around" on one engine instead of just landing and running off the end of the runway. NO EXCUSES!!! It was all my fault, trying to be a hot shot instead of doing the smart thing.[:@]
Anyway, thanks again for your help, I do like that twin mustang. I just think the twinstar or twinstick will suit me better for my next twin. I would be much more heartbroken if (when) I put the twin 'stang in.
It looks a bit large for 2 46s. Have you ever clocked the top speed on a gun or with a stopwatch?
Just curious. My duellist was my first (and only) twin ever. It flew just fine until I decided to "go around" on one engine instead of just landing and running off the end of the runway. NO EXCUSES!!! It was all my fault, trying to be a hot shot instead of doing the smart thing.[:@]
Anyway, thanks again for your help, I do like that twin mustang. I just think the twinstar or twinstick will suit me better for my next twin. I would be much more heartbroken if (when) I put the twin 'stang in.
10-08-2005, 10:09 AM
#7
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mary Esther, Florida, FL
Posts: 20,205
Likes: 0
Received 15 Likes
on
14 Posts
RE: Other twin ARF?
Stupid:
If you just want a nice twin get the Twin-Air 45 from Northeat Aerodynamics. It's a kit, but a lot easier to build than the Duellist. For sport flying it's just as nice. Precision aerobatics though, the Duellist has the edge.
www.ne-aero.com
Bill.
If you just want a nice twin get the Twin-Air 45 from Northeat Aerodynamics. It's a kit, but a lot easier to build than the Duellist. For sport flying it's just as nice. Precision aerobatics though, the Duellist has the edge.
www.ne-aero.com
Bill.
10-08-2005, 10:11 AM
#8
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (14)
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Hayden,
ID
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Other twin ARF?
William,
I checked out the twin stick, looks like it would fit the bill pretty well. However, it looks like it is heavy for it's size, has external servos (drag) and guys that are building it have to put in some ballast, even if they move everyting as aft as possible.
Also, I have never been impressed by the speed of any of the "stick" family members that I have seen fly. I realize the airframe is not conducive to flat out speed, but I want something fast.
As I'm sure you know, the twinstar comes in under 6 lbs (recommended engines, etc.). This is a large appeal for me, since my duellist was 9.5 and was somewhat of a dog with the OS 46s.
Is the quality just not there with the twinstar? I had an avistar that I put over 100 flights on and it held up well. (lost it only because the right gimble on my transmitter broke off during a flight!)
I was considering taking the twinstar, converting to V-tail, retractable-mains taildragger configuration. I could enlarge the nacelles to accomodate larger than 4 oz tanks, or just have short flights.
Since this is obviously one of your fortes, I was wondering what your thoughts would be on my ideas.
Thank you in advance!
Stu
I checked out the twin stick, looks like it would fit the bill pretty well. However, it looks like it is heavy for it's size, has external servos (drag) and guys that are building it have to put in some ballast, even if they move everyting as aft as possible.
Also, I have never been impressed by the speed of any of the "stick" family members that I have seen fly. I realize the airframe is not conducive to flat out speed, but I want something fast.
As I'm sure you know, the twinstar comes in under 6 lbs (recommended engines, etc.). This is a large appeal for me, since my duellist was 9.5 and was somewhat of a dog with the OS 46s.
Is the quality just not there with the twinstar? I had an avistar that I put over 100 flights on and it held up well. (lost it only because the right gimble on my transmitter broke off during a flight!)
I was considering taking the twinstar, converting to V-tail, retractable-mains taildragger configuration. I could enlarge the nacelles to accomodate larger than 4 oz tanks, or just have short flights.
Since this is obviously one of your fortes, I was wondering what your thoughts would be on my ideas.
Thank you in advance!
Stu
10-08-2005, 10:14 AM
#9
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (14)
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Hayden,
ID
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Other twin ARF?
Bill,
Thanks for the tip, I was responding to you when you wrote this one.
I will check that one out,too.
I actually enjoy building, I just got discouraged after losing the duelllist. It was my greatist building accomplishment to date. I know, all part of the hobby, right?
Stu
Thanks for the tip, I was responding to you when you wrote this one.
I will check that one out,too.
I actually enjoy building, I just got discouraged after losing the duelllist. It was my greatist building accomplishment to date. I know, all part of the hobby, right?
Stu
10-08-2005, 10:34 AM
#10
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mary Esther, Florida, FL
Posts: 20,205
Likes: 0
Received 15 Likes
on
14 Posts
RE: Other twin ARF?
Stu:
(I like that better than "Stupid".)
The early version Twin Star had a nasty habit of disintegrating when big engines - 40s and larger - on it. I've not heard of any problem with the new version coming apart. Mine, with a pair of HB 25 engines flies nicely, with 40-46 engines it would be a rocket.
Robby the Moderator has cut parts for longer nacelles, including the longer plastic covers for them. Check with him for availability. The wood is no problem, but since he also has the lengthened covers...
The Twin Star wing is fairly thin so drag shouldn't be a real problem, but it's almost a flat bottom so trim changes with air speed could be a bother.
For an easy wide speed range you want the angles to be as close to zero-zero as you can. The Twin Star has positive incidence on the wing, and down thrust in the engines. In upright flight one tends to counter the other until you chop power, then the plane tends to balloon until the speed drops.
The NE-Aero Twin-Air has enough of a flat bottom on the wing to allow it to be built without any jigs, but at the same time it's mounted in the plane at zero aerodynamic incidence - the flat bottom angles up to the rear - and the engines are at zero, speed trim issues don't exist.
The Duellist is just about the ultimate sport twin, provided you get the 2/40 Mk II. The version kitted by Pica was the Mk I, it's not zero-zero, but it can be built to 0-0-0 with a little effort.
Finally, check out the Gemini. It's an ARF that I didn't think of earlier. Expensive, but it's complete. Never seen one, just pictures on the net, but all I've heard has been good.
Bill.
(I like that better than "Stupid".)
The early version Twin Star had a nasty habit of disintegrating when big engines - 40s and larger - on it. I've not heard of any problem with the new version coming apart. Mine, with a pair of HB 25 engines flies nicely, with 40-46 engines it would be a rocket.
Robby the Moderator has cut parts for longer nacelles, including the longer plastic covers for them. Check with him for availability. The wood is no problem, but since he also has the lengthened covers...
The Twin Star wing is fairly thin so drag shouldn't be a real problem, but it's almost a flat bottom so trim changes with air speed could be a bother.
For an easy wide speed range you want the angles to be as close to zero-zero as you can. The Twin Star has positive incidence on the wing, and down thrust in the engines. In upright flight one tends to counter the other until you chop power, then the plane tends to balloon until the speed drops.
The NE-Aero Twin-Air has enough of a flat bottom on the wing to allow it to be built without any jigs, but at the same time it's mounted in the plane at zero aerodynamic incidence - the flat bottom angles up to the rear - and the engines are at zero, speed trim issues don't exist.
The Duellist is just about the ultimate sport twin, provided you get the 2/40 Mk II. The version kitted by Pica was the Mk I, it's not zero-zero, but it can be built to 0-0-0 with a little effort.
Finally, check out the Gemini. It's an ARF that I didn't think of earlier. Expensive, but it's complete. Never seen one, just pictures on the net, but all I've heard has been good.
Bill.
10-08-2005, 10:43 AM
#12
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mary Esther, Florida, FL
Posts: 20,205
Likes: 0
Received 15 Likes
on
14 Posts
RE: Other twin ARF?
Stu:
An added note - the Duellist Mk II and the Twin-Air are both non-events on a single engine, so long as you use a little common sense, like no sudden full throttle applied. Again, the Mk I Duellist is almost as good. The Mk II has slightly more wing span, and the vfertical fin and rudder are reworked for less roll coupling.
Bill.
Pictures: Completed Mk I and Mk II in bones. wr.
An added note - the Duellist Mk II and the Twin-Air are both non-events on a single engine, so long as you use a little common sense, like no sudden full throttle applied. Again, the Mk I Duellist is almost as good. The Mk II has slightly more wing span, and the vfertical fin and rudder are reworked for less roll coupling.
Bill.
Pictures: Completed Mk I and Mk II in bones. wr.
10-08-2005, 11:14 AM
#13
Senior Member
My Feedback: (4)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Evans,
GA
Posts: 1,053
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Other twin ARF?
Here's another option that I just came across..
[link=http://www.modelmaniacsonline.co.uk/products.php?CatID=7&SubCatID=247&ProductID=2738&T itle=Ripmax+Harmony+Twin&ManCode=RHAR]Twin Arf[/link]
I don't know whether they are any good, or if anyone in the US is marketing them.
Walt
[link=http://www.modelmaniacsonline.co.uk/products.php?CatID=7&SubCatID=247&ProductID=2738&T itle=Ripmax+Harmony+Twin&ManCode=RHAR]Twin Arf[/link]
I don't know whether they are any good, or if anyone in the US is marketing them.
Walt
10-08-2005, 12:59 PM
#14
RE: Other twin ARF?
The Twin Stick is not heavy. Mine came in at 8.5 lbs with a 1650 mil battery pack. I have one with 2 GMS .47s with APC 11-5 props and it has unlimited vertical and it is surprisingly fast. Ask Robby, the forum moderator, about it. He flew mine at the Multis Over McDonough meet. Everyone there was surprised at how fast it was and I use 8 degrees out thrust. With this out thrust, I have taken off and flown acro one engine.
It does tend to build nose heavy, but I moved the rudder and elevator servos (HS-5625MGs) and the battery to the rear fuselage for balance (on the spar).
It does great knife edge with a little mixing for pitch & roll. It will go over the top in knife edge. With a lot of elevator, it will flat spin, upright and inverted, but you have to get the technique down. The roll rate is very fast. Square corners are tight, especially going down. Outside squares are a piece of cake.
Comparing the Twin Stick to the TwinStar is no contest. The TwinStar is a twin trainer. The Twin Stick is a twin fun fly plane that will do anything except 3D.
It does tend to build nose heavy, but I moved the rudder and elevator servos (HS-5625MGs) and the battery to the rear fuselage for balance (on the spar).
It does great knife edge with a little mixing for pitch & roll. It will go over the top in knife edge. With a lot of elevator, it will flat spin, upright and inverted, but you have to get the technique down. The roll rate is very fast. Square corners are tight, especially going down. Outside squares are a piece of cake.
Comparing the Twin Stick to the TwinStar is no contest. The TwinStar is a twin trainer. The Twin Stick is a twin fun fly plane that will do anything except 3D.
10-08-2005, 01:55 PM
#16
Senior Member
My Feedback: (4)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Evans,
GA
Posts: 1,053
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Other twin ARF?
I agree with Ed- my vote for the best "known" sport ARF twin would have to be the Twin-Stick. I was there with Ed and Robby and it was the airplane of the weekend. It may not look sleek, but it was surprisingly fast and very maneuverable. And you can't beat the price.
Walt
Walt
10-08-2005, 06:05 PM
#18
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mary Esther, Florida, FL
Posts: 20,205
Likes: 0
Received 15 Likes
on
14 Posts
RE: Other twin ARF?
Stu:
Just got an email from Northeast Aerodynamics that could be of interest to you right now. Here's an extract:
That makes the kit $140 while he's having the sale, instead of the advertised $160 price. As Walt and Ed M will agree, it's an excellent kit, and the plane is just as good.
Bill.
>>EDIT: Forgot the URL www.ne-aero.com .wr.
Just got an email from Northeast Aerodynamics that could be of interest to you right now. Here's an extract:
Bill,
I thought you might be interested in knowing that Northeast is running an October Fest Web Sale on the Twin-Air .45 kits sold from the web site. I’ve set the sale price at $139.95 for the duration of the sale.
Take care,
John
I thought you might be interested in knowing that Northeast is running an October Fest Web Sale on the Twin-Air .45 kits sold from the web site. I’ve set the sale price at $139.95 for the duration of the sale.
Take care,
John
Bill.
>>EDIT: Forgot the URL www.ne-aero.com .wr.
10-08-2005, 06:38 PM
#19
Senior Member
My Feedback: (4)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Evans,
GA
Posts: 1,053
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Other twin ARF?
It seems everyone wants ARFs these days. But building the Twin-Air is still about the most fun I've had since returning to the model airplane hobby. Excellent kit- an easy build with plenty of room for 'bashing. And flight characteristics are a lot like a "twin 4*60".
My Twin-Air is still flying with 46FX's and Ultrathrust tuned mufflers. Not as fast as a Deullist, but it moves right along.
Walt
My Twin-Air is still flying with 46FX's and Ultrathrust tuned mufflers. Not as fast as a Deullist, but it moves right along.
Walt
10-08-2005, 06:58 PM
#20
10-08-2005, 11:51 PM
#21
Senior Member
My Feedback: (4)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Evans,
GA
Posts: 1,053
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Other twin ARF?
Bill,
Actually I started the P-61 first, then jumped over to the Deullist when it looked like it would take a while to get the YS engines, then had tuned pipe issues with the Deullist but the YS engines arrived for the 'Widow so jumped back over to it... its been a long challenging year in the shop
But yes, now that the P-61 is flying, finishing up the Deullist is next on the list. I was working with Lewis at LCS Performance on getting the engines set up earlier this year- what we found is that the old rear-exhaust ST's will absolutely scream with the factory matching pipes- they tested at 18,700 RPM on the bench with a 10x6 APC! But it turns out that the pipes that I got with the plane don't work well at all. So I need to figure out how to fabricate a pair of pipes duplicating the one that Lewis has or find an aftermarket alternative. Or give up entirely on the ST's and buy some new Jett 50's. Oh well, I like engineering challenges...
Other than resolving the power plant issue the Deullist is just about ready to fly.
Walt
Actually I started the P-61 first, then jumped over to the Deullist when it looked like it would take a while to get the YS engines, then had tuned pipe issues with the Deullist but the YS engines arrived for the 'Widow so jumped back over to it... its been a long challenging year in the shop
But yes, now that the P-61 is flying, finishing up the Deullist is next on the list. I was working with Lewis at LCS Performance on getting the engines set up earlier this year- what we found is that the old rear-exhaust ST's will absolutely scream with the factory matching pipes- they tested at 18,700 RPM on the bench with a 10x6 APC! But it turns out that the pipes that I got with the plane don't work well at all. So I need to figure out how to fabricate a pair of pipes duplicating the one that Lewis has or find an aftermarket alternative. Or give up entirely on the ST's and buy some new Jett 50's. Oh well, I like engineering challenges...
Other than resolving the power plant issue the Deullist is just about ready to fly.
Walt
10-10-2005, 09:26 AM
#23
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (14)
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Hayden,
ID
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Other twin ARF?
Walt,
FYI...I have been building most of my planes from kits. I just lost a duellist that I built from a kit. I have probably built 10 or so kits in the 5 years I have been in the hobby.
I would love to build another duellist or some other nice twin, but I got quite discouraged after losing my first twin. I am looking at an ARF as an option so I don't lose the twin "bug".
I only have a few hours per week to build, so I'm sure you can appreicate the advantage of an ARF. Maybe I WILL get a kit and an ARF and build one while flying the other.
Anyway, if you say building the twin-air was fun and went well, and everyone in this forum seems to like it, maybe I'll go ahead and get it. I just spent so much time building the duellist that I'm a little "gun shy" about diving into another twin kit.
Thanks for all your help.
Stu
FYI...I have been building most of my planes from kits. I just lost a duellist that I built from a kit. I have probably built 10 or so kits in the 5 years I have been in the hobby.
I would love to build another duellist or some other nice twin, but I got quite discouraged after losing my first twin. I am looking at an ARF as an option so I don't lose the twin "bug".
I only have a few hours per week to build, so I'm sure you can appreicate the advantage of an ARF. Maybe I WILL get a kit and an ARF and build one while flying the other.
Anyway, if you say building the twin-air was fun and went well, and everyone in this forum seems to like it, maybe I'll go ahead and get it. I just spent so much time building the duellist that I'm a little "gun shy" about diving into another twin kit.
Thanks for all your help.
Stu
10-10-2005, 05:30 PM
#24
Senior Member
My Feedback: (4)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Evans,
GA
Posts: 1,053
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Other twin ARF?
Stu,
Most of my planes have been kits too, with a few ARFs thrown in. And I know what you mean about building time. The Twin-Air goes together pretty quickly. The only time-consuming part is getting the nacelles right.
Walt
Most of my planes have been kits too, with a few ARFs thrown in. And I know what you mean about building time. The Twin-Air goes together pretty quickly. The only time-consuming part is getting the nacelles right.
Walt
