Stainless Skills

Today, at a new field I put 4 16 minute flights on a 30% Yak with a DA 50. This Yak has had 20+ flights with a JR 9303 TX and a R649 receiver; both are in PCM mode on Channel 47.

I have never ever had any interference what so ever with this airplane. Previously the receiver was in another 30% plane with the same setup and over 200 flights with never one glitch.

As I was making a turn at the end of the runway away from the pits maybe 50 feet away from some highline wires I experienced failsafe lockup. The engine went to idle and the plane began to nose over toward the trees at the end of the runway. For 3 or 4 seconds I failed to realize what was even happening. Then as I took my first step to run towards the airplane I regained control. I don’t think my step had anything to do with the control being regained but I quickly decided to walk towards the airplane and land right away. As I made a circle to come back to myself the airplane went into failsafe again. I ran as fast as I could towards the plane, regained control and then landed.

This is an interference problem, the amps flowing to the receiver were not interrupted, I use a 4800 li-ion with a fromeco regulator and 3 outputs into the receiver. At home I ran down the block about 80-100 yards with the DA 50 running and with it off and the antenna down on the TX. I never once lost control even when I put the JR 9303 in front of a car that was between it and the airplane 80 yards away.

A guy who lives next to the field where I fly is also on Channel 47. Do you think he could of been working on one of his planes in the garage and caused my interference?

I need to figure out how to remedy this situation. I can not re-create the problem so should I send the receiver and TX in? I just had the TX's output checked by horizon 2 weeks ago so it should not be having a problem. I am not sure if the other guy on CH 47 will give me a strait answer.

Many of the guys at the club on all different channels live by the field, I don’t want to just switch to another channel.

How does one go about getting their radio to transmit on 50MHz and how do you get the receiver to pick up 50MHz. What if I wanted to get my own frequency like so many jet pilots do? How do I go about that, can I have Horizon mod my radio to output that freq and then order a receiver that is tuned accordingly. Should I just switch to Spectrum? Does FM or Spectrum have greater range when there is no interference? I do not want to get into Spectrum yet because a module and receiver for my radio would cost $300 and I dont have the money + it is a new technology and it is still susceptible to interference from other 2.4 GHz stuff even though Horizon won’t admit it.

Also, can highline wires cause interference?

Thanks, John.

krayzc-RCU

My Feedback: (31)

try to set the plane up were you received the hit at the field. changing channels would be your lowest cost option beats buying another plane if the guy in the gargae is suspect.

nitro wing

My Feedback: (1)

To me it sounds like another transmitter interfering,with your channel,but it could be otherwise.I dont think its another scenario you want to play out again,hope you find a solution.

Dan767

My Feedback: (19)

If you would like to use the 50mhz band, you must have an Amateur Radio license. A Tecnicians license is what would be required. There is no longer a code requirement for any Amateur license.

SinCityJets

Stainless,

I don't want to start any debate here, but let me share some experiences that are going on here in Las Vegas. We have two main flying fields. William Bennett and the North Field. The North Field has come "under attack" lately by people who knowingly purchased houses that were built right up to the ends of the runway (almost). Someone has been using a synthesised radio and dialing in some crashes. It's at the point where the FCC is investigating it. Anyway, while this is probably NOT what is occurring at your field, it DOES make a strong point for 2.4. Now, before everyone starts chiming in with their own stories (that they heard from someone else or was originally caused by a dumb thumb), I have been using 2.4 on everything from foamies to my 102" QQ Yak, and soon to be my turbines. ZERO PROBLEMS.

My only caution is to make sure you run enough power to the receiver. Any legitimate crash on Spektrum I've heard of has been caused by the voltage dropping so low on the battery that the receiver "re-booted" causing a failsafe or lock-out. I run a Smart-Fly super-reg and a smart-fly power distributor with dual 2200 Mah lipo's. All I can say from FIRST HAND experience is I would never switch back.

Just my .02 cents.

Stainless Skills

Thats good to hear.


After range testing at 150 feet + with the antenna down, engine on and off and a full 180 degree walk around the plane I am sure that it was not my reciever.

It could have been a power loss caused by the fromeco regulator getting too hot, but that is another story and I dont want to type it all out.

I am checking amps in the next minute to try and solve that problem.

telejojo

Get a Spectrum you won't have to worry about it..............................

Stainless Skills

If I forget about the other guy at the field that could have caused the problem and the possible highline wire interference, that I really dont think caused the crash there is the heating up of my regulator. Here is a letter I sent to mike at Fromeco. I would love to hear your input on weather or not your regulator heats up when a continuous current of 6 amps is run through it for 10's of seconds. Thanks for any input, I am in desperate need of some.

Stainless Skills

DESPITE THE LENGTH, IT IS EASY TO READ AND UNDERSTAND.

Hey Mike, thanks for such an informative response. After a trip to the hobby store and $110 on an Eflight current meter and infrared temperature gun I set up an experiment. I pointed the temp gun under my tong and it read 98F I also plugged the current meter in-between my triton charger and a Li-Po and it read exactly what the charger was putting out so the equipment works flawlessly.

With my two meters, and 2 other identical brand new super regulated relia-switches ready for another one of my planes I began to experiment. Oh and the 3 regulators behaved in exactly the same way during the experiment. I plugged the current meter in-between the battery and one of the regulators and then put the 3 outputs of the regulator into the receiver. The 4800 battery was putting out 8.25 volts. The regulators were set to an output of 6.25 volts.

With the radio on high rates and me jiggling the sticks as fast as I could, I got a max reading of 6.5A. This took quite a bit of effort and with me shaking the sticks at a comfortable pace I could pull around 5.5 amps. Again all the regulators performed equally. After jiggling the sticks at a steady 5.5A pace for 45 seconds I stopped to touch the regulator, it was very hot. I measured it with the temp gun and got 126 degrees Fahrenheit. With the other regs it was something like 126F and 125F. When I touched this metal with the skin on the bottom of my wrist I have to quickly pull my wrist away because the metal feels like a hot cookie sheet fresh out of the oven and I can not hold my fingers on the metal for 1 second. I then jiggled the sticks for about 15 more seconds as fast as I could drawing around 6.3 amps and I got a max temperature reading on all the regs of 130F. This was without the engine even running which might have given me even higher amperage and temperature readings.

I needed the temp gun for other things as well but I also thought it would help clarify my explanations to you. I know these regulators are rated for 9 amps continuous. Have you all experimented to see how hot the blue heat sink gets when a continuous current of 6A is pulled?

I did not check for a short in the regulator as you recommended. I would have to solder to make new connectors to accommodate the servo leads into the receiver since I have Deans soldered on to the current meter.

I always thought that a 22 gauge wire could only handle about 3 amps? If this is the case can the meter actually pick up a full 9 amps flowing from the regulator to the receiver if it is only plugged in between one lead or should I make a Deans connection with 3 inputs and 3 outputs so I can gang all the leads together? Is doing this really necessary? I tested each servo one at a time and all of them gave an equal reading so I do not have a servo that is binding or malfunctioning. My setup seems to be perfect.

I have a hard time believing that all 3 of my regulators could be faulty. I could believe that the heat sink actually gets up to 130 degrees when a 6A continuous load is placed on it when it is regulating from 8.25 volts down to 6.25 volts. However your statement about the heat and the regulators pulling 10A has me confused. While I could have some source of error in my experiment, it would be so hard to pin down that I would rather just buy a regulated power box!.

Thanks for any help you can give me, maybe I could send the regulators in and you could test them yourself if we can not find a solution.

-John-

Oh and: Temp Celsius = (5/9) (TempF-32) in case your temperature reading for the heat sinks is in Celsius.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

If the heat sinks were cold it would indicate they were not doing the intended job. 120-130 degrees is not an issue. They sinks are doing exactly as they are supposed to do, shedding excess and unwanted heat generated bu high amperage use. As previously noted, if they failed to be hot with those amperage draws I woud be concerned very much. As it is I would be quite pleased to see them working so effectively. I'm quite willing to venture that if you were to perform the same experiment using half the amperage the sink temps would be significantly lower. The regulators you are using are rated at 9 amps. They handle a bit more than that safely.

Going back to the lock out problem. When the lockouts accurred, who would have been closer to the plane at the time, you, or the neighbor with the same frequency? Perhaps the answer to that will be the answer to the lockouts.

Stainless Skills

On the lockout issue, thats what is bugging me.

I have a 9303 and a 6102 JR radio, both on the same frequency and I have experimented with the interference issue at my house. It seems as if my 9303 puts out a much stronger signal that my 6102 and as long as the 9303 is closer than the 6102 to my airplane, I have controle, most of the time. Now this experiment was done within 20 feet of the airplane mind you so I dont really know how it would perform at a greater distance. When the lockout happened I was about 50-80 meters away from my airplane, I was standing in the pilots box and the airplane was at the end of the runway, inbetween me and the survice line wires. The guy in his house would have to have been 100+ meters away from my airplane, I do not actually know where he lives so it could have been a much greater distance. Maybe his radio and the survice line both played a role, I dont know but I am still afraid to fly the airplane because it has been my only one and I dont want to loose it and the $2000 in it.

What is a proper range check to go through in a manuel and what should I do in order to be sure I can fly again?

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

First, when you have any question about the reliability of a radio or it's components it should immediately be returned to the manufacturer with a full and complete explanation of why you want it looked at. They are the experts, people in internet forums rarely are.

Second, various readios have slighlty different output levels. They have a maximum limit they they can radiate, but often fall slightly below that level and rarely above. The radio sending the strongest signal on the same frequency will over power another using ppm causing loss of control, and cause a lockout with pcm, again with loss of control. Even if your radio is perfect, other factors come into play that effect the radio transmission and reception, such as line of sight and potential intermediate interference objects between the operator and the aircraft, such as other items that could be radiating RFI. You may be the one closer to the plane, but outside factors may stil influence whose transmitter is sending the strongest received signal.

You can try using another frequency to eliminate the neighbor factor but you will not obtain any useful information regarding the condition of your radio. Back to the first. Send it in for a good check up. All the above presumes that your radio installation was clean to begin with .

Stainless Skills

I actually sent the radio in 1.5 weeks ago because it would not power on, even with a new fuse. I also asked the tech to check the output frequency.

After tightening down on the fuse connection that had come loose the tech said that he checked power output and modulation and that. I feel that there is no need to send in the radio, My reciever could be suspect but then again, the range check that I did tested at 150' +.

Are you sure about the heat sink heat? For some reason I have not been able to get an email back from Mike at fromeco. Hope he is getting along alright. He said that heat that is too hot to touch on the regulator means 10A+. But they get hot with just 4.5 amps. Oh well, maybe some day I will get an answere before the flying season is over.......

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

We may have a difference in opinion of what is considered to hot to touch. I don't feel that 125 meets that defination but I'm used to working in an enviornment that goes to 135-140 for an ambient air temp. OTH, if you are indeed pulling 10 amps through the regulators you need to go back through the servo linkage installations and set ups to see how you can do it better. One is generally hard pressed to pull 6 amps on a 35% plane using dual servos on each surface in any type of flight. At 8 or 10 amps something is seriously wrong with the installation.

Stainless Skills

Yah I worked really hard to pull 6 amps. I copied my model in my radio to another model, and then I turned up the rates as high as they would go without causing binding or harm. Then I gave all the surfaces, including the throttle -100% exponential, then I shook the sticks as fast as I possibly could which was very very fast—6A.

I gave the servo's a couple minutes rest in-between each one minute test of the regulator but I actually ruined the motor on a 5945 aileron servo. On the third test I heard this weird loud humming and I turned everything off, I cycled the aileron up and down and the gears in the servo where fine, then I powered back on again and the servo worked fine but after about 15 seconds when it got warm it began to hum louder and louder and got weaker and weaker. I am going to send it in to Hitec. I know for a fact that it was not like that before, that’s really how hard I worked to pull 6 amps though.

But I did all these tests at 11PM at night so I could not run the engine, I imagine on normal high rates with the plane doing rolling harriers, which I do alot of, and blenders and knife edge spins, I did tons of these before the lockout, all this coupled with the engine running could pull 6 amps.

I still have not gotten back an email from Fromeco, I hope I get one back before the 5945 comes back from Hitec.

Flyjets

My Feedback: (51)

SS

Just to much like my buddies incident.

I built him an EF 87" Yak and on it's 11 FLT the same thing happened.

We found the Transmitter Battery Pak was the culprit. He also got control and landed once he ran towards the model.

One last item Silver Surfur the new moviestar is right. 10 Amps is way to much for such a small plane to draw.
My 3.3m Yak in a extreme Snap with 17 servos just barley pulls this.

Ian

Stainless Skills

My TX makes a loud beeping sounds when it turns on and off. I did not hear this, or think it was the battery but can the battery disconnec tvery rapidly so that signal power is lost but there is still a surge in the wires so the TX does not turn off in the time it takes that battery to become re-attached.

btoby

would he have a chance of pulling more, in flight?
with wind on the surfaces,it will take more amperage to do the same job as static testing, right?