NM_Mark

My Feedback: (8)

I'm in big need of help - I'm getting so frustrated right now with my Ram T-500. I get not get it to go past the ramping stage of the start sequence.

Here's what happens:

1. It lights on Propane normal.

2. Hits the ramping sequence, Kero hits, and it goes to 30,000 rpm, and will go no faster, no matter what. I've played with the startPW, the gas adjust, nothing seems to get it past that 30,000 rpm point - it's like there is a governor stopping it at that RPM - never gets out of the ramping stage. I mixed up fresh fuel, new can of Powermax, new ECU battery. I tried making sure the pump is good - hooked it up to a small battery, and ran it through a dish of fuel - no problems at all.

Only thing I've done is replace the fuel pump. The pump is not the one designed for it, but was told it would work. It is a Hausl ZP30020S - could that be my problem?

I'm sooo wanting to fly this thing. I was grounded for awhile with vision problems, but cataract surgery has healed that problem - I have the eyes again, now no flying because of this bleeping motor. Any help anyone can give me is greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Mark

Jet Lag

My Feedback: (26)

Mark.You need to start the turbine up with the GSU,ground unit ,plugged in so you can read the PPW,Pump Pulse With, at the RPM it goes to.A high PPW indicates a problem with the fuel system.At full throttle the PPW should only be between 250-350.If it is higher you have a restriction in the fuel system or more likely a weak pump.A excellant pump for the T-500 is the Flight Works 200B model.It works right out of the box with no adjustments.

vetagator

My Feedback: (5)

Jet Lag is right Mark. It sounds like a weak pump or restricted fuel line (plugged up fuel filter). If your PPW is greater than 400, you most likely have a restriction. Some of the Hausl pumps are tightly meshed and need to run for a while to "wear in" for optimal performance. Let us know what you find. Good Luck. Alex.

G-ROOKIE

My Feedback: (51)

Hello Mark, I had the same problem last week and a friend told me to take the pump out and plug it up to a tank with fuel and let it run for an hour on a 4.8 or 6.0 RX. battery. I used several battery's to add up an hour but it work after that. He said that my pump need to be flush out because it had been setting up for a while.

RCISFUN

My Feedback: (44)

Hello NM_Mark,
As Jet Lag suggested you need to connect the GSU in order to trouble shoot the engine.
What version ECU are you running?
What is the Temp reading at 30K?
Did you check your temp probe position, should be inserted 1/16" into the tail cone.
What is the PPW at 30K?
I have seen problems getting to ramp up when there is not enough heat.
I only have experience with Propane for starting, I have heard of problems starting with powermax.
The flight works 200B is an excellent choice for a pump, I have been running one since January.

Rich

NM_Mark

My Feedback: (8)

G-Rookie, I did run the pump in - I hooked it up, and ran it for 30 minutes (think I need to run it more?). It was running in fuel the entire time (never went dry).

RCISFUN - I am running C03 - I think that is the latest version. The temp reading is around 510 at 30K, but it does keep climbing up as it tried to ramp - just doesn't get any faster. The temp probe is in the tailcone about 1/16" of an inch. The PPW during the ramp is one thing I didn't look at - I'll look at it tomorrow.

Thanks everybody!!!

Mark

G-ROOKIE

My Feedback: (51)

Also check your starter motor and see if its going bad. I had to change it out also, go to your locale hobby shop and look for the 370 E-flite motor for $9.99 and make sure that u reverse to wires.

Make sure that you run the pump for an hour or more with a 6.0v battery.

joeflyer

My Feedback: (48)

When I had a similar issue with my Ram 500 it was the starter hanging up. I'm not sure of the exact rpm, but the starter should disengage around 30K. If it doesn't the extra drag will keep the engine from running any faster.

Look to see if the starter disengages. If it doesn't clean the o-ring, compressor nut, and bendix with alchocol. If that doesn't do the trick put a tiny drop of WD40 on the bendix, then wipe off any excess before reinstalling the starter. Be careful not to get any lube on the o-ring.

Joe

NM_Mark

My Feedback: (8)

Thanks Joeflyer - I'll check the starter tomorrow as well

GSR

My Feedback: (145)

Forget all that-First thing to check is that you have the fuel and gas lines mixed-.9 probability that you have the propane plugged into the fuel line. Scott

NM_Mark

My Feedback: (8)

I checked that - everyone is telling me that yellow is gas red is kero - and that's the way I have them hooked up.

G-ROOKIE

My Feedback: (51)

Why don't you post a pic. of your setup ?

joeflyer

My Feedback: (48)

It would be worth your while to remove the front cover to confirm that the lines are connected properly. The kero line is connected to a tee which branches off to line with a restrictor to lube the bearings.

Joe

B58

My Feedback: (43)

OK, I am working on this engine now. The egt probe is intermittant, so I can fix that. The starter won't turn over 15000 rpm. How do you get the bedix off of the motor? Help. Bob

joeflyer

My Feedback: (48)

First verify that the kero and propane lines are connected properly under the cover.
Second let us know what error messages you are getting.

Fix that before you attempt any more starts. If the ECU doesn't see enough of a temperature increase it won't ramp the kero. If that's the case it should be reflected in the error message. Does the data terminal show that it gets into Fuel Ramp mode?

That's good for starter only, your starter motor is fine. The combination of the starter motor plus propane should get it to 30K rpm. Did you look to see if the starter has disengaged when it won't go over 30K? Don't attempt to remove the bendix until you have confirmed that that is the problem.

Again WHAT ERROR MESSAGES ARE YOU GETTING on your data terminal???
You can hear a definite change in sound when it starts burning kero.
Are there any flames? Are they blue or yellow?

Joe

B58

My Feedback: (43)

OK, the egt will go to o and when the probe is moved it will go back up to where it should be. So I think that is an indication of a bad probe. The error is simply timed out. The fuel pump pulse will go up to about 63 before it shuts down. I ran this engine for many flights in the past and all was well with the fuel and propane connections as they are now. There was a mishap and the fuel pump wires were pulled out. The new fuel pump was installed, and that is when the problems started. I have redueced the pulse to as low as 30, and as high as 60. No success either way. I will pull the front cover to make sure the lines are ok. I appreciate the word on the starter. The engine is hanging at about 22000 right now. Wonder if I should increase the propane pulse? Might give that a try. Thanks for any and all help. Bob

joeflyer

My Feedback: (48)

If the thermocouple is intermittant that could cause the starting problem. If not it could cause other problems, like shutting down in the middle of a flight.

Just re-read the thread. That's a good indicator that the fuel pump is at fault. You could try disconnecting the fuel line from the engine, initiate a start sequence, and see if it's delivering any fuel (into a cup or jar of course). My Ram 500 ran on a Hausl ZF28028S pump. The ZF30020S is for a much bigger engine.

Joe

B58

My Feedback: (43)

It is delivering fuel, and as you say probably too much. I will try the egt harness, and then probably order the correct pump. This one is brand new, so someone will probably have a use for it. I think even a low pulse settings it is just pumping too much fuel. Thanks for all the help. Bob

funflyerf4

My Feedback: (6)

How do you remove the bendix from the motor shaft,is it the pin in side the bendix that must be pressed out?

Thanks Frank

joeflyer

My Feedback: (48)

Frank,
It may depend on which version you have. Mine had the latest level starter. If you slide the moveable outer part of the bendix forward there is a set screw that holds it onto the motor shaft. Simply loosen the set screw and pull it off. If there is no set screw then it is obviously pressed on. Removing the pin won't help.

I went through several starter motors. The $10 ones from my LHS wouldn't last very long. Finally I bought one from Modellbau USA. For $29 you get a new motor complete with bendix, bearing support, and wiring harness. At that price it isn't worth messing with the old one. Theirs is compatable only if you have the later level starter. You can tell because the wire comes straight out of the front of the starter housing and the front half of the housing unscrews making it very easy to change.

Joe

RCISFUN

My Feedback: (44)

It seems that Modelbau keeps changing the design, if you have the early design it is almost impossible, in the photo; the unit on the right was the newer design with two set screws, the one on the left is the one I just received from Modelbau USA, it is the second one they sent to me as the first one shipped had a seized Bendix.(I question the quality Control) Not sure how to remove that one, all I can think is the set screw to secure to the shaft is under the outer piece which I believe would require the pin to be pressed out.

B58

My Feedback: (43)

Thanks for the help. I have the one with no visible set screw, but talked to Carlos at RTI today, and the problem is too big a pump, and a bad egt harness. He has the egt probe, but no pumps in stock. Anyone got one they want to sell? Any of the 280 size pumps would probably be ok. Bob

RCISFUN

My Feedback: (44)

Look at post #5 of this thread, the Flightworks 200B pump works great!