Glues for large scale planes..
06-17-2003, 02:55 AM
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Glues for large scale planes..
I'm starting my first large scale project (12' wing span) here shortly and I have some questions about what I should or should'nt use in the glue department.
I have used T-88 and West Systems epoxies for years in full scale
building and am comfortable with them. I guess modelers don't like them due to their long cure times. So far I have only used super glues on stuff like my LT-40, 4Star40, and Cub. I am not comfortable with super glues in a larger plane...is this a valid fear?
My only concerns with epoxies or Titebond II is the total weight that is added to the airframe if they are used exclusively.
Al
I have used T-88 and West Systems epoxies for years in full scale
building and am comfortable with them. I guess modelers don't like them due to their long cure times. So far I have only used super glues on stuff like my LT-40, 4Star40, and Cub. I am not comfortable with super glues in a larger plane...is this a valid fear?
My only concerns with epoxies or Titebond II is the total weight that is added to the airframe if they are used exclusively.
Al
06-17-2003, 03:23 AM
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Glues for large scale planes..
If you're building with balsa, then the same glues that hold together a small plane will hold together a big plane. Remember these glues are all stronger than the wood itself.
Just for reference I built a 33% Extra and used about 9oz of Elmers. Just of touch of Ca and no Epoxy. Considering that about half the Elmers evaporates, there is about 5 oz of adhesive in a 24 lb plane.
Tom
Just for reference I built a 33% Extra and used about 9oz of Elmers. Just of touch of Ca and no Epoxy. Considering that about half the Elmers evaporates, there is about 5 oz of adhesive in a 24 lb plane.
Tom
06-17-2003, 04:20 AM
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The Best
Hey
ZAP Adhesives and glue work AWESOME .
Increbible bond strength, quick drying and slow drying formulas for MANY different applications.
Best Glue I've ever used
go to www.franktiano.com to check out ZAP adhesives.
Josh
ZAP Adhesives and glue work AWESOME .
Increbible bond strength, quick drying and slow drying formulas for MANY different applications.
Best Glue I've ever used
go to www.franktiano.com to check out ZAP adhesives.
Josh
06-17-2003, 07:40 AM
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Glues for large scale planes..
I'd go with the Titebond or Elmer's Carpenter glue. Use a sandable white glue for edge-joining sheeting.
I only use CA for things that don't matter. I buy it in the tiny tubes available at Home Depot and Lowes. That way I've always got a fresh tube, and I'm not out much when the tip goes bad.
The one place I do recommend CA is for hardening the inside of wing joiner tubes.
I build on a plate glass table, and like to glue little blocks on it to hold things in place. CA works well for this, because I can count on it to let go with just a little tap when I'm done.
Roger
I only use CA for things that don't matter. I buy it in the tiny tubes available at Home Depot and Lowes. That way I've always got a fresh tube, and I'm not out much when the tip goes bad.
The one place I do recommend CA is for hardening the inside of wing joiner tubes.
I build on a plate glass table, and like to glue little blocks on it to hold things in place. CA works well for this, because I can count on it to let go with just a little tap when I'm done.
Roger
06-17-2003, 10:29 AM
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Glues for large scale planes..
After I got into giant scale, I started realizing how expensive Zap really is. Besides, it isn't available in quarts. So I'll skip my long learning curve and just give you the answer that has worked for me for a couple dozen years.
Titebond II - For EVERYTHING (with the exceptions noted below). This glue is stronger than standard Titebond and is notabley more resistant to "creep". If you use no more than a joint needs, it is not a heavy glue and any weight it does contribute means nothing to a typical giant scale aircraft.
Zap - But only for areas where you want an instant bond. I use it to tack down an edge of sheeting and then pin down the rest of the sheet with Titebond II and let it dry.
30 Minute Epoxy (NOT any faster epoxies because they don't soak into the wood as well. The 5-minute epoxy itself is just as strong.. but the bond it makes isn't.) - Use epoxy only for firewall and gear mount areas.. and maybe wing saddles if you think you need it.
Weldbond - With "RC 56" no longer available, Weldbond is clearly (no pun intended) a direct replacement. It sticks to anything, has the consistency of the old RC 56, and dries water clear. This is really just a cosmetic glue that I use for canopies and to attach scale detail items where any other glue would show. It's strong though; you could build the entire aircraft with it but it's more expensive than Titebond II so, well, why?
3M #77 - I don't use this very often, but some like to use it for sheeting so have at it. My only use for it is for attaching a template piece to a wood part prior for cutting.
That's all I got,
Highflight
Titebond II - For EVERYTHING (with the exceptions noted below). This glue is stronger than standard Titebond and is notabley more resistant to "creep". If you use no more than a joint needs, it is not a heavy glue and any weight it does contribute means nothing to a typical giant scale aircraft.
Zap - But only for areas where you want an instant bond. I use it to tack down an edge of sheeting and then pin down the rest of the sheet with Titebond II and let it dry.
30 Minute Epoxy (NOT any faster epoxies because they don't soak into the wood as well. The 5-minute epoxy itself is just as strong.. but the bond it makes isn't.) - Use epoxy only for firewall and gear mount areas.. and maybe wing saddles if you think you need it.
Weldbond - With "RC 56" no longer available, Weldbond is clearly (no pun intended) a direct replacement. It sticks to anything, has the consistency of the old RC 56, and dries water clear. This is really just a cosmetic glue that I use for canopies and to attach scale detail items where any other glue would show. It's strong though; you could build the entire aircraft with it but it's more expensive than Titebond II so, well, why?
3M #77 - I don't use this very often, but some like to use it for sheeting so have at it. My only use for it is for attaching a template piece to a wood part prior for cutting.
That's all I got,
Highflight
06-17-2003, 02:18 PM
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Glues for large scale planes..
Ray,
How much fillet? None. Any glue that you can see is doing virtually nothing but adding weight. I use a scrap of balsa to wipe away any glue that squeezes out.
If you want to reinforce a joint with a fillet, that's fine. But use a thin sliver of balsa to form the fillet.
If you are using glue to fill a gap, then mix some balsa shavings with the glue. Pure glue has no strength.
Tom
How much fillet? None. Any glue that you can see is doing virtually nothing but adding weight. I use a scrap of balsa to wipe away any glue that squeezes out.
If you want to reinforce a joint with a fillet, that's fine. But use a thin sliver of balsa to form the fillet.
If you are using glue to fill a gap, then mix some balsa shavings with the glue. Pure glue has no strength.
Tom
06-17-2003, 07:58 PM
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Glues for large scale planes..
When you glue wood on wood the most important thing is that you got NO gap 
Use the time it takes to get the parts fit perfectly, then use a good quality PVA glue (that white glue carpenters use)
Be sure to get good pressure when you glue and let it dry.
Epoxy and CA gets very hard, and you risk the joints will crack because of vibrations and shocks for examble from a bad landing.
CA is no good for plywood, but in some cases where strenght is not requried you can use it if you wet the ply a bit.
Use the time it takes to get the parts fit perfectly, then use a good quality PVA glue (that white glue carpenters use)
Be sure to get good pressure when you glue and let it dry.
Epoxy and CA gets very hard, and you risk the joints will crack because of vibrations and shocks for examble from a bad landing.
CA is no good for plywood, but in some cases where strenght is not requried you can use it if you wet the ply a bit.
