Super-Hornet

Hi lawnhawk

I think some of us don't want to get into heated debate here. Some of you can order it (Cheaper on transportation fee) easily. So maybe can u order it and let us know how does it perform. BTW.. if the size ok.. should not have any problem. The RPM looks good except voltage rating too low but anyway it is cheap.

Super-Hornet

lawnhawk

Um.... anyone else?

I just asked if the motor I linked to is the same size as the tail rotor motor on the Hummingbird.

randii

Looking at the part number, it is an N20-chassis motor... that is the same size as the tail motor in the Hummingbird, Aerohawk, Piccolo, etc. From a BUNCH of searching I have done, I believe the N20 series motor to be inferior to the B2C or B2C2 motors. Do a quick search on B2C and N20 -- it'll shake loose a couple of posts where I have talked quite a bit about these motors. FWIW, there's also a few posts on running twin-N20s on one tail.

My guess, if you were to order up one of these N20s, is that you would find simple brass wipers inside instead of copper-sprung brush blocks. which is what you have in your HB. I'd guess that the N20 motor would burn out quickly if used as a tailmotor. In the end, the only way to know for sure is to order up one and give it a try...

Tailmotor on a mini-heli is a tough environment for any motor of this size, unless you run a high-frequency ESC. Even then, this application represents *heavy* usage, and none of these short, small-diameter oval-can motors seem to last very long, regardless of brand. Some last longer than other (the Hummingbird motor I installed last weekend is holding up nicely), and others last shorter than others (the stock Aerohawk tail motor seems pretty weak).

Hope that helps,

Randii

lawnhawk

Yes, thanks Randi, that's the kind of information I was looking for.

I'm not too concerned if it's not the exact same design, they're gonna burn out anyway. So, if I can burn them out at a fraction of the cost, it's all good. [sm=thumbup.gif]

It looks like from the posts at runryder that the bigger motor has already been proven for the main rotor. I am going to get a few of those, and maybe a couple of these little guys to try on the rudder.

Will keep you all posted unless someone beats me to it.

jerbo6iks

I sent an email to All electronics corp regarding Johnson model numbers etc for this motor and they responded that they have no further info on the motor beyond what they have on their web site. I did an extensive search of the Johnson Elecric site and could not find the exact motor based on dimensions and voltage. I will be getting 10 of these in the next couple of days. I need to rig up some assembly of those capacitors that can be easily connected as an assembly of sorts. I'll be damned if I'm going to solder the 3 things on each time since I'm a lously solderer!

Super-Hornet

Hi jerbo6iks

Thanks for your effort of trying to find the spec. Once u get those motor, maybe u can help us (those wanted to know) check for any manufacturing marking/symbols/serial.

As for the capacitors. I have one idea for u. Maybe u can soldered those capacitors separately into a PCB or just wired soldered. Then connect 3 wires to your motor (2 wires for the +ve and -ve point and one for motor chassis/ground)

Super-Hornet

jerbo6iks

Just recieved my 10 motors. There is no serial number or other info on the motor other than what can be seen printed on the outside of the motor on that all electronics site larger picture http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bi...189&type=store. I did pop one of the motors open and it does have copper sprung brushes as opposed to finger brushes as mentioned earlier in this thread. I do not know if they are carbon or not. The blocks on the end of the copper springs seem a little silvery in color to be carbon but I wouldn't know since I have never popped one open before. I'm waiting on a pinion gear puller so I have not installed one.

RickyT63

1st, thank you all for info/tips about Johnson250 motor.
I replaced stock motor (280) with J250 and noticed that it has much more torque than 280.
I have to increase mixer gain up ~ 30% with dd tail installed.[8D]

Both stock & 250 are using 10T.
Stock motor + dd tail : mixer gain set @ 0%
J250 motor + dd tail : mixer gain set @ 30%

Regards

cyclejerk

Darkside,
Thanks for the motor info! The lower voltage is no big deal, at that price if it burns up who cares. (as long as lasts for a while anyway, if it burned up after an hour that would be a prob). But your friend has much more than a hour on his. some motors run better with some added voltage! ROCK ON!

newbiehawk

I purchased 12 of the tail motors from All Electronics:
http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bi...166&type=store

I pulled one of them apart and compared it to my burnt out AeroHawk tail motor (see attached photo, AeroHawk stock motor on left, Mabuchi # FF-N20PN on right). From what I can see they are almost identical, including the two triple-pronged brass wipers for the commutator. I haven't run this motor yet on my heli, so I can't confirm how it performs. But it sure looks like a good (and cheap! ) replacement option for what appears to be a consumable for these birds.

flyingchaos

The major difference that you would not easily be able to tell is the number of windings in each of the armature/rotor. That will dictate how the motor is designed to run.

You could, however, use the old rotor if the commutators(the three copper faces on the rotor) do not look worn out...typically this part shoudl be good. Its the finger brushes that wear out usually.

Additionally you can use the old can also...

Talk about making a frienkenstien. :-)

the easy answer would be to test out the new motors and see if it works. Good ol trial-n-error seems to be the best way to do it. :-)

lawnhawk

RickTran, did you use stock pinions or did you have to use a different shaft diameter pinion? Both the main and tail.

RickyT63

LawnHawk,

I use Hummingbird stock 10T pinion for J250 main motor and it fits just fine. I only have to tap the mounting hole to fit 4-40 screws then solder 3 caps & power connector. For the tail, I use edp50xc direct drive motor.
Regards.

jerbo6iks

I wnet to home depot to look for a drill and tap set but forgot to bring the stock screw. The 4-40 set looked about right but I didn't want to buy it without being sure. What does 4-40 stand for? I really don't care if I use stock screw diameters, just something that works.

Thanks

RickyT63

4-40 is the size of screw, I guess. Like 3mm, 3/56, etc ....
Make sure the length of screw is 1/4 or 3/16 otherwise you need to cut it (I did).

flyingchaos

4 is the diameter from tip of threads

40 is the thread pitch. This will have to be the same as the nut pitch to match.( not sure if its 40 turns per cm or .4mm between threads... :-))

jerbo6iks

I finally got everything I need together to install one of these motors. 10 motors ($10 including shipping), 4-40 screws 1/4" length($0.50 for 10), a 4-40 tap and drill set ($10 at HD) a GWS pinion gear puller with the 2 mm shaft piece (about $20 with shipping), and some .047 micro farard 50v DC capacitors (4 for $2 cost more than the motor at radioshack!). I did not need to drill out the holes on the motor since the holes were untapped 4-40. I twisted the 1 capacitor between the motor terminals and then twisted 1 capacitor to each terminal and taped the other end to te motor body on either side to facilitate soldering. I also sanded the motor body in the area that I intended to solder.

Tapped the holes. Be sure that the motor rotor is situated so that the tap willl not damage it. Soldered up the mixer power wires and the capacitors and popped it in. The only difficulty I had was that the holes on the motor were closer together than the 370 motor. I did not have to redrill them but it took some time to get the rearward screw in since the main rotor gear partially interferes.

It worked. It did seem that the stock tail motor was not up to the task however. I had to use a lot of right trim to keep straight in benign flight. I went to test the climbing ability and got the thing nose in right in front of my face by accident and crashed it. Broke both main rotors at the root and one of the landing gear struts broke at the frame. Ran out of right rudder on the hard up throttle.

I'm going to convert the tail to high authority direct drive and make the gain adjustment mentioned above. One thing for sure, there are no issues with the motor's power. Climbs strong, hovers fine.

You can get the capacitors much cheaper here:http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bi...model&start=16. pick
CAT# 473D50

mcdoong

This motor works fine for my dragonfly with stock tail motor once. According to other website, do not take off the jacket. Otherwise the tail motor can not hold the direction.

However, the MOSFET was burned on the second fly. I suspect that some small chips fall inside the motor while I tapping the screw hole, causing short circuit. Be careful. Any idea how to prevent the stuff fall inside?

Derek McDonald

Take the motor apart...tap it ...then put it back together. You just need to bend out the tabs on the can to get it apart. Thats what I did and it works great. Then when the brushes finally wear out you can use the same can again...depending in how the bushing lasts. Im still on the first motor(7hrs) so I havent tried "recanning" yet.

lawnhawk

Derek McDonald you gotta be kidding? Is that 7 hours on the same brushes even or no? Maybe I misread your message.

If that's the case I ordered about 6 too many of these motors

Derek McDonald

Yes, its the same(1st) Johnson Ive used so far. I bought 4 and figured Id be changing them sooner but its still going strong.

cyclejerk

I ampurchasing some of the main motors tonight. My tail motor stopped worknig last night, where can I get a good replacement? what is this direct drive motor i've been hearing about? I have a PICCOLO by the way, the small one, ECO.

jerbo6iks

Well, I'm not sure what is going on but I seem to be having a problem with the main motor after about 6 standard bat packs. The motor seems to squeal every once in a while. Squeal is the best descripton I can come up with. When that happens, it just drops from the air. Late into the last pack I went to take off and it squealed at low power so I upped the throttle and it suddenly took off spinning out of control into the fireplace before I could do anything. More broken parts. Are the motor bearings substandard or am I just unlucky with motor #1? Any Ideas?

mcdoong

jerbo6iks,

That's what happened to me right before my mixer/speed controller was fried. My heli reduced the altitude suddenly twice and the direction also changed. The next thing happened was smoke comes out from the mixer board. Be really careful. I believe you should check the motor.

mcdoong

jerbo6iks

I took the motor off and opened it up to have a look. It seemed very clean,the brushes where in very good shape. I did see a few filings on the magnets from the tapping. I'm not sure how they would short the motor in the worst case scenario. How would that happen? Anyway, I think the main problem was that my lousy soldering (came off) on one capacitor to the can and the positive terminal on the motor was loose. It was held on loosely by the twists of the capacitor wires but the solder was cracked loose. I think it was intermittently arcing. How do you get a nice clean blob of solder on those little terminals like the factory does???? Is it worth opening the motor up for the tapping or are the filing being captured by the magnets ok? The magnets are touching the can anyway right? Bottom line is that the motor was nowhere near spent based on my inspection.