Any jet crash with Futaba FASST system ?
06-16-2008, 04:52 PM
#26
RE: Any jet crash with Futaba FASST system ?
ORIGINAL: GSR
Not to joke this time, but in reality what is the ratio of FAAST flights to spektrum/JR 2.4 flights? I can honestly say that I have only seen ONE Futaba 2.4 flight in the last three months and many hundreds of Spektrum/JR flights. I dont know the ratios in other parts of the country but out here it is easily 10:1 so of course there will be less FAAST crashes. Lets ask the original post question in a year when (or if) FAAST matches the number of in air hours. I agree that the frequency hopping system does appear to be better, but lets wait. Scott
Not to joke this time, but in reality what is the ratio of FAAST flights to spektrum/JR 2.4 flights? I can honestly say that I have only seen ONE Futaba 2.4 flight in the last three months and many hundreds of Spektrum/JR flights. I dont know the ratios in other parts of the country but out here it is easily 10:1 so of course there will be less FAAST crashes. Lets ask the original post question in a year when (or if) FAAST matches the number of in air hours. I agree that the frequency hopping system does appear to be better, but lets wait. Scott
06-16-2008, 04:58 PM
#27
RE: Any jet crash with Futaba FASST system ?
ORIGINAL: Yann
There's been one crash here in France that I heard of (12 FGA/FASST). It happened to the club next door. I talked to the unfortunate pilot/owner last week end.
He told me he was flying his feibao F18 way too far and as he lost total control of the plane, he figured out (a little too late) that he was having his antenna pointing towards his plane. Lesson learned.
There's been one crash here in France that I heard of (12 FGA/FASST). It happened to the club next door. I talked to the unfortunate pilot/owner last week end.
He told me he was flying his feibao F18 way too far and as he lost total control of the plane, he figured out (a little too late) that he was having his antenna pointing towards his plane. Lesson learned.
I'd go with the "lost orientation" call on that one before I'd blame the radio...
Bob
06-16-2008, 06:11 PM
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RE: Any jet crash with Futaba FASST system ?
ORIGINAL: sweetpea01
Sorry for any confusion.........FASST came out to the R/C community after Spektrum/JR. It really doesn't matter how long it was patented or in the hands of other users. This is about R/C.
I also guess I should clarify.......I should not have said Futaba learned from Spektrum/JR.......but that FASST users (the general R/C public) learned from the mistakes that other 2.4 companies that had products avail to the R/C community first.
Is that clear enough?
I still wouldn't say FASST is superior to Spektrum/JR........just a different way to skin the cat. They both work and they will both fail.
Sorry for any confusion.........FASST came out to the R/C community after Spektrum/JR. It really doesn't matter how long it was patented or in the hands of other users. This is about R/C.
I also guess I should clarify.......I should not have said Futaba learned from Spektrum/JR.......but that FASST users (the general R/C public) learned from the mistakes that other 2.4 companies that had products avail to the R/C community first.
Is that clear enough?
I still wouldn't say FASST is superior to Spektrum/JR........just a different way to skin the cat. They both work and they will both fail.
The 2 systems do not offer assistance of knowledge to the other.
I (IMHO) would say that FASST is far better than Spektrum, for many reason outlined before.
With regard to the number of FASST v Spektrum flights, in the UK FASST is very strong, and getting stronger, i think before long it will be #1.
Paul
Paul
06-16-2008, 07:02 PM
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RE: Any jet crash with Futaba FASST system ?
ORIGINAL: ravill
Yes, "Bahtman"!!! I know what you like the taste of!![sm=idea.gif]
Raf
Yes, "Bahtman"!!! I know what you like the taste of!![sm=idea.gif]
Raf
...I will be using Fasst in my next project here in the US!
06-17-2008, 01:07 AM
#31
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RE: Any jet crash with Futaba FASST system ?
Wasn't Futaba's 2.4 system in use in industrial applications and RC cars before Spektrum was conceived in the back of a VW Beetle on Lover's Lane?
06-17-2008, 02:10 AM
#32
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RE: Any jet crash with Futaba FASST system ?
ORIGINAL: Flyfalcons
Wasn't Futaba's 2.4 system in use in industrial applications and RC cars before Spektrum was conceived in the back of a VW Beetle on Lover's Lane?
Wasn't Futaba's 2.4 system in use in industrial applications and RC cars before Spektrum was conceived in the back of a VW Beetle on Lover's Lane?
06-17-2008, 11:22 AM
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RE: Any jet crash with Futaba FASST system ?
All of the guy's in my group here in Perth Western Australia use FASST, many flights in carbon frame 3D helicopters AND Jets, NO ISSUES whatsoever. and yes it does get HOT here, very very HOT!
there are however some others that use XPS, to which i have known of 2 crashes and spectrum which i have seen 1 crash in a heli and lockouts in a jet. the ratio of FASST to spectrum/xps would be approx 8:1
there are however some others that use XPS, to which i have known of 2 crashes and spectrum which i have seen 1 crash in a heli and lockouts in a jet. the ratio of FASST to spectrum/xps would be approx 8:1
06-18-2008, 03:57 PM
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RE: Any jet crash with Futaba FASST system ?
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/6,142,392
A fuel injector patent from Toyota covers FHSS 2.4ghz????
Hmmmmm....
In real time (fast response) hobby industry marketed 2.4ghz technology, Spektrum technology was first, by a large margin. I hope we can agree on that.
David
A fuel injector patent from Toyota covers FHSS 2.4ghz????
Hmmmmm....
In real time (fast response) hobby industry marketed 2.4ghz technology, Spektrum technology was first, by a large margin. I hope we can agree on that.
David
06-19-2008, 07:42 AM
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RE: Any jet crash with Futaba FASST system ?
Sorry, i dont get it?
Date on patent November 7th 2000
Date on Futaba Patent October 2000.
So if you just want to go by that then Futaba wins!
Also i can not see what this patent has to do with either 2.4 of model control systems (unless i am missing something?)
Paul
Date on patent November 7th 2000
Date on Futaba Patent October 2000.
So if you just want to go by that then Futaba wins!
Also i can not see what this patent has to do with either 2.4 of model control systems (unless i am missing something?)
Paul
06-19-2008, 10:25 AM
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RE: Any jet crash with Futaba FASST system ?
ORIGINAL: GrayUK
Sorry, i dont get it?
Date on patent November 7th 2000
Date on Futaba Patent October 2000.
So if you just want to go by that then Futaba wins!
Also i can not see what this patent has to do with either 2.4 of model control systems (unless i am missing something?)
Paul
Sorry, i dont get it?
Date on patent November 7th 2000
Date on Futaba Patent October 2000.
So if you just want to go by that then Futaba wins!
Also i can not see what this patent has to do with either 2.4 of model control systems (unless i am missing something?)
Paul
Does this help?? (Try the link I posted if you prefer.)
David
06-19-2008, 10:28 AM
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RE: Any jet crash with Futaba FASST system ?
ORIGINAL: GrayUK
Sorry to be defensive on this but that statement is just not true.
Futaba have been making 2.4 g industrial control system for a hell of a long time, way before anyone else even got their feet wet. The patent on the FASST system with pre-vision registered US Patent # 6,142,392 dated Oct 31,2000.
So I do not think Futaba learned anything from Spektrum /JR or others.
The issues Spekrum had do not relate to Futaba, the chipset is not sensitive to low voltage and due to the frequency hopping it takes less than 1 second to lock on.
The nature of the deferent technologies makes it unlikely that lessons in one system could be of use in others.
You mention later about blanking of aerials, I have done extensive testing with FASST and have yet to see any issues with that. The patented FASST and prevision enable Futaba to function without the need for multiple rx’s etc. This simplifies install and makes the system more reliable as there is less to go wrong (KISS)
Yes Futaba dropped the ball on the Zero GUID issue, but they did acknowledge the error and recovered the situation quickly, even paying for smashed airframes.
As for temp issues, my data shows Futaba chipset is rated –10C to +60C.
Spektrum is 0C to +70C. Either system is good at high temps, provided reasonable precautions are taken to ensure over heating does not occur, i.e. Keep the rx’s out of direct sunlight and away from sources of extreme conductive heat, engines etc. To be honest, this is standard install considerations (or it should be!)
Low temp is another issue, last year in our club, 2 Spektrum sets would not function at all, temps at the time were below freezing. The FASST systems functioned and flew all day.
In relation to the question, I know of and have heard of many Spektrum systems crashing, I am sure not all are down to the radio. I also know many Spekrum users who have had zero issues. However, I have no knowledge of any FASST related crashes at all.
Paul
ORIGINAL: sweetpea01
Just as a side note.......they also came out waaaaaaaaaay after JR/Spektrum and XPS which solved many of the growing pains for them.
Just as a side note.......they also came out waaaaaaaaaay after JR/Spektrum and XPS which solved many of the growing pains for them.
Futaba have been making 2.4 g industrial control system for a hell of a long time, way before anyone else even got their feet wet. The patent on the FASST system with pre-vision registered US Patent # 6,142,392 dated Oct 31,2000.
So I do not think Futaba learned anything from Spektrum /JR or others.
The issues Spekrum had do not relate to Futaba, the chipset is not sensitive to low voltage and due to the frequency hopping it takes less than 1 second to lock on.
The nature of the deferent technologies makes it unlikely that lessons in one system could be of use in others.
You mention later about blanking of aerials, I have done extensive testing with FASST and have yet to see any issues with that. The patented FASST and prevision enable Futaba to function without the need for multiple rx’s etc. This simplifies install and makes the system more reliable as there is less to go wrong (KISS)
Yes Futaba dropped the ball on the Zero GUID issue, but they did acknowledge the error and recovered the situation quickly, even paying for smashed airframes.
As for temp issues, my data shows Futaba chipset is rated –10C to +60C.
Spektrum is 0C to +70C. Either system is good at high temps, provided reasonable precautions are taken to ensure over heating does not occur, i.e. Keep the rx’s out of direct sunlight and away from sources of extreme conductive heat, engines etc. To be honest, this is standard install considerations (or it should be!)
Low temp is another issue, last year in our club, 2 Spektrum sets would not function at all, temps at the time were below freezing. The FASST systems functioned and flew all day.
In relation to the question, I know of and have heard of many Spektrum systems crashing, I am sure not all are down to the radio. I also know many Spekrum users who have had zero issues. However, I have no knowledge of any FASST related crashes at all.
Paul
06-19-2008, 11:26 AM
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RE: Any jet crash with Futaba FASST system ?
6,141,392
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/6,141,392
There are links to related documents in the patent.
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/6,141,392
There are links to related documents in the patent.
06-19-2008, 01:02 PM
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RE: Any jet crash with Futaba FASST system ?
DOE!
Sorry about that, yes you are right, posted the wrong number
Number should be 6,141,392 as you say...still only 1000 out
Paul
Sorry about that, yes you are right, posted the wrong number
Number should be 6,141,392 as you say...still only 1000 out
Paul
06-19-2008, 01:36 PM
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RE: Any jet crash with Futaba FASST system ?
Hey, Thats better!
Probably developed with their industrial controls in mind?
Looks like it has to do with controlling timing of path diverse antenna changing in order to avoid packet interuptions?? Probably using it in R/C now?
Seems like a way to prevent LOOSING a packet by changing in the middle of the packet core data.
Have Fun,
David
Probably developed with their industrial controls in mind?
Looks like it has to do with controlling timing of path diverse antenna changing in order to avoid packet interuptions?? Probably using it in R/C now?
Seems like a way to prevent LOOSING a packet by changing in the middle of the packet core data.
Have Fun,
David
06-19-2008, 02:09 PM
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RE: Any jet crash with Futaba FASST system ?
That’s right; it selects the correct aerial during the preamble not data, that way it does not LOSE (not loose, that is the opposite to tight!) a packet due to corruption during aerial switchover. Clever system; simple but clever, as all the best ideas are.
Paul
Paul
06-19-2008, 02:18 PM
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RE: Any jet crash with Futaba FASST system ?
Cool,
I was too loose with my spelling.
As is noted, this is different from the mid/high end SPM systems that use 2-4 antennas permanently affixed to 2-4 recievers using diverse paths, then send the data (from 2 frequency/band segments) to a central point to determine the valid (checksum etc.) data to be used in the present (real time) sense. (In this sense, they try to acheive the same goal).
Anyway, I will now try to exit this thread.... as it is a Futaba thread! (Wish me luck!)
Regards,
David
I was too loose with my spelling.
As is noted, this is different from the mid/high end SPM systems that use 2-4 antennas permanently affixed to 2-4 recievers using diverse paths, then send the data (from 2 frequency/band segments) to a central point to determine the valid (checksum etc.) data to be used in the present (real time) sense. (In this sense, they try to acheive the same goal).
Anyway, I will now try to exit this thread.... as it is a Futaba thread! (Wish me luck!)
Regards,
David
06-19-2008, 07:28 PM
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RE: Any jet crash with Futaba FASST system ?
Not a jet, but a local guy lost a mega buck IMAC plane this weekend. FASST onboard..it went straight in - no control. FWIW.........
06-21-2008, 08:01 PM
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RE: Any jet crash with Futaba FASST system ?
ORIGINAL: GSR
Not to joke this time, but in reality what is the ratio of FAAST flights to spektrum/JR 2.4 flights? I can honestly say that I have only seen ONE Futaba 2.4 flight in the last three months and many hundreds of Spektrum/JR flights. I dont know the ratios in other parts of the country but out here it is easily 10:1 so of course there will be less FAAST crashes. Lets ask the original post question in a year when (or if) FAAST matches the number of in air hours. I agree that the frequency hopping system does appear to be better, but lets wait. Scott
Not to joke this time, but in reality what is the ratio of FAAST flights to spektrum/JR 2.4 flights? I can honestly say that I have only seen ONE Futaba 2.4 flight in the last three months and many hundreds of Spektrum/JR flights. I dont know the ratios in other parts of the country but out here it is easily 10:1 so of course there will be less FAAST crashes. Lets ask the original post question in a year when (or if) FAAST matches the number of in air hours. I agree that the frequency hopping system does appear to be better, but lets wait. Scott
Kevin.