Mario Giordano

Hi guys, since i'm thinking to do a new project, i was looking some videos and i note taht these hulls have little or lessstability when turning, and it gets worse with rough waters, the boats i'm talking about are mhz popeyes and mhz xxx muscle, both with this kind of hull (pic).
Here, http://themarineinstallersrant.blogs...ations-on.htmlyou can reed a very interesting article about his behavior.
Maybe these hulls in model boat size are worse than the typical "deep vee"?
Anyone has experience with thiskind of boats?
Thanks

Regards

SS RC Boats

All the hulls i own have stepped bottoms. I will say that i have noticed the difference in behavior when turning compared to the older non stepped hulls i have owned but its not that much difference at all. I now own 2 66" SV43 from Germany,expresscraft gtx,central rc fountain. Some non stepped boats i have onwed are numerous apache 50's and 56's (std and cut down versions),expresscraft c54,51" patriot,whh 52" magnum,expresscraft 72" apache,aeromarine challenger,seaducer 42" and 47" and 44" hurricane mono....which all where gas engines. The expresscraft gtx and central rc fountain hull i can enter corners without coming off throttle like i can with the seaducer and hurricane mono. Oh.....and i don't use turn fins any of my boats over 50"!

Mario Giordano

Thanks for the answer SS RC Boats, so you think they are better or just different? it must be a reason that all the boats you own now have stepped hulls, but if you have to choose a hull to use also on rough waters, what would it be? Thanks

Regards

goodson

A stepped hull will have more stern lift in smooth water and will ride on 3 or more points on the keel for more stability. When the water gets choppy, the additional aeration in the back can cause instability in corners. This is what I've read, seen, and experienced in my years on 1:1, and scale boats. Not all stepped hulls are engineered the same, either. Making a call on which is better is almost the impossible question because of all of the different hulls, and setups available. As the hull gets larger, the difference in handling between stepped/non-stepped I believe gets smaller. As speed rises, I think the opposite is true.

So, how fast do you want to go, and in how rough is the water?

SS RC Boats

Mario...goodson made a very good point here. It will be very hard to choose or say which is better due to handling differences. I would say they are different. What i have noticed is my SV43's are not as good in corners as my gtx or fountain,but are faster in the calm and handle rough water better. Basically as long as im going straight the SV43 is definitely faster and LOVES the chop...but hates a corner! Have done different bottom mods between the 3 we have to try improve cornering and getting better. One of the mods was recommended by Andy himself,the builder of the SV43 in Germany. Dont get me wrong on a good day the gtx and fountain will make me drive my butt off to stay in front,especially in the corners. Fountain due to being much smaller is just as fast as SV in calm. I can get my gtx and fountain to turn very good at a nice speed (3/4 throttle or more on a good day) where as the SV i have to slow down much more (less than half throttle).

ROUGH water....SV43 hands down! Handles so much like the real offshore one its un-believable!

Mario Giordano

Thanks guys, goodson, the speed is not an issue, i'm not planning a rocket boat, 45 mph will be fine for me. Since i'm going to use it in the sea, i want a stable boat, i was thinking at the "hunter" (pic).
SS Rc Boats, you have a very beatiful boat collection, in particular i really like the Outerlimits SV43, i was looking for some info about this boat even at <font color="#0000ff">www.e-powerboat.de/</font> but nothing more than picturs and videos. I also knew that mhz is planning this year-end a new hull based on "lucas Oil" race boat on 57" size, but a little bit small for what i'm searching.
So what do you think guys about this deep vee hull in the pic, can be better than a stepped hull for run in the sea at this speed?
Thanks

SS RC Boats

The Hunter is a nice boat and should definitely be able to handle the seas. I really like and most likely will buy the MHZ 63" XXX Muscle fountain for my next project later in the summer. And not to mention if MHZ do come out with the Lucas Oil model....i will definitely get one of them. I love that boat!

Justaddwata

My Feedback: (3)

The Hunter hull is HUGE - really a much larger boat than the length suggests. My buddy built one up with a QD70 years ago and the motor looks tiny in it. http://imageevent.com/justaddwata/wareham5 It was a tricky hull to setup with weight/balance and I have seen a few others with balance issues (spins out end for end and breaks hardware in the process).

The XXXMuscle is perhaps my favorite of the MHZ hulls. I have yet to get around to finishing mine but love the look and all I have seen of it in action makes me eager to get it finished. I also like (and have) the 65" Rio Roses fountain though it is a tall hull and a tighter cockpit for working compared to the XXXMuscle. I have some comparison pics of the two with the Expresscraft GTX if of help - http://imageevent.com/justaddwata/my...sonshots636565

Mario Giordano

Thanks guys. SS RC Boats, i sent an e-mail to mhz asking if they if they were making a new project hull, and was Shirley Bombelka who answer me telling me that they currently are working on a Lucas Oil hull which will be released in october, same size of skater, so this is real, and maybe you will be the first to buy it.
Matt, as i told you before i've seen your amazing photo album, but i want to know someting: all those boats are or were yours? I also saw that comparison of the 3 hulls you talk about, so you think the xxx muscle (also stepped) will be a good choice even on rough waters? having one in possession you can tell me how good is it? thanks

Regards

SS RC Boats

Funny you say that....i emailed her also. Yes i will definitely be buying one one the first few out of the mold if not the first! Told her put me on the list!

wetsleeves

Matt, man do you have some props........ couldnt beleive how many props I saw in the picture.....wow...

Justaddwata

My Feedback: (3)

Sorry Mario, thought I replied prior. Yes all the boats listed in the picture album are my boats (unless stated as sold). Geico cat and MTI cat are no longer mine - but I changed their albums to sold. I have around 45 gassers in various stages or running or project (and around 200 props). The Hunter is a capable rough water boat though might require more power and attention to fine tuning setup to be balanced. From what I have seen of the 65 and 63 mhz hulls I would pick the 63 (xxxmuscle) for a build - going to depend on how rough your talking (no hull is ideal for the roughest).

On a side note - would go for a lucas oil design in a heartbeat!!

rio 51 racer

So whats better on a 70 in deep v for going fast(50+) in some chop ?stepped or not??

intenserapture

I have steps on a 60 inch hull but not tried it yet. There is always middle ground, here is my Pacer 70 that has notches rather than steps and it runs very, very well indeed.

You can see them here

SS RC Boats

Depending on how choppy it is 50+mph will be sometimes impossible. It really all comes down to set-up. Stepped bottom will be faster in a straight line due to bottom design but can be a downfall when it comes to cornering. The expresscraft gtx is a good example of a step bottom hull that is good all around....cornering and straight line speed. If your not racing and lookinig for that edge over competition than a step or non-step will both work good in calm or rough waters. In Bermuda we race in open waters,no lakes in winds up to 25 knots at times and after 17 years of running gas boats,all my boats have step bottoms....that should say a lot![8D]

Mario Giordano

Hi guys, so look at this video  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpqafedrUfU and tell me why this boat (mhz xxx muscle-stepped hull) has a bad handling specially when turning and if you look the water is not so choppy, maybe a bad setup? this is an example of what i don't want in a boat.
However if you look at this other video (proposed before) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZBPPysrXSc from minute 3:55 you will see a perfect and stable boat (hunter deep vee hull) running and jumping like a real offshore! i love it!
I think if i should choose a hull right now, would be the hunter, a good size and a better widt that makes it well placed in water.
Matt, where is that white un-chained hunter? Was sold? One of the best builds i've seen.

Regards

martno1fan

I dont agree that stepped hulls are less stable than non stepped hulls the main problem ive noticed with the stepped hulls ive seen are that they are too narrow THAT is the main reason they are unstable and wont turn not the steps.The main reason theyre not as popular stateside is because theyre not allowed to race them so the only boats you see there with steps are the bigger scale type hulls.The day you see the ban lifted will be the day you see everyone switching to stepped designs and the sport will be better for it.
Mart

SS RC Boats

Mart i have to dis-agree when you say that the step hulls are too narrow. My 66" SV43 is wider than my expresscraft gtx by an 1" and my central rc fountain by 3" and the gtx and fountain turn a lot better. I can actually run my gtx and fountain (with NO turn fin) with the smaller heat race monos on a heat race course and have fun. I wouldnt dare try that with my SV43 and it's faster in a straight line than both my gtx and fountain.

Here is a video of my gtx testing on a heat course with some of the smaller heat race monos. Again NO turn fin and you will notice it turns so sharp i had to avoid hitting buoy the first couple laps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB_X5RirKi4

And YES the steps do affect turning even in real powerboats as i have read my articles on the testing of the Outerlimits SV43 and they too mentioned how the steps affect the boats turning. They have turned the real boat over in a corner for the same reason! And i also race a Ocke Mannerfelt B23 and notice the same thing after racing Progression and Velocity powerboats the past 19yrs.

martno1fan

Ive been building a stepped vee for 4 years and it absoluteley loves rough water and shes only 46"so to say a boats unstable because it has steps is nonesense in my opinion.But hey agree disagree i dont care either way.
Mart

SS RC Boats

I never said that they dont like rough water,some jus dont favor conering in rough water and some do. In my earlier post you will see that i said how my SV loves calm or rough water....just doesn't favor cornering as much as the gtx or fountain. Read it again buddy!!! Than again how rough of water do you run your 46" boat in???

Mario Giordano

Come on guys, take it easy, is like life itself, can like it or dislike, but we don't have to fight. Lets talk about these hulls.
Anyone saw the video below of the fountain muscle? Need to know why this stepped hull have this behavior.
Thanks

SS RC Boats

Hey Mario...no were not fighting! But yeah you are correct,some like and some dislike. Yeah i did see the video but since i coudn't see the set-up it is harder to tell. The way the hull is set-up can be a cause but will have to see first hand. Have a look at the Pacer 70 from Big Tee racing....thats a good handling proven hull if you ask me. Or you can just go with the Hunter if you really like it since you've seen and like how it runs. But don't let the step bottom hulls dis-courage you...i love them![8D]

martno1fan

Mario no ones fighting like i said agree disagree it doesnt bother me i have a thick skin (stubborn ******* lol).
If you want a true rough water boat then you cant beat the Apache,someone told me you cant get 60 mph from an Apache with a single zen,i can tell you you can get one dam close 59 mph to be exact .
I have a 72" Cigarette in the works,i was considering steps but to be honest i dont see a big enough reason to do them and its a lot more work .
Mart
ps the Pacer doesnt have steps it has vents cut into the side not real steps.

Mario Giordano

Ok guys, great to hear this. Now, the pacer 70 is good and i have to recognize that runs well in rough waters but i don't like the transom, to small to mount 2 z-drives and 2 big mercruiser trims, without counting exhaust outlets, same argument for the 63" xxx muscle or 65" popeyes, if you look at the first pic,(photo from Matt,Justaddwata) you will see a comparison of two transoms, hunter vs xxx muscle, what a difference!!!! The best solution could be a hunter with steps.... The second pic shows a real 38 fountain race boat (hunter) with stepped hull, wow!!!

bigteeracing

Mario

interesting reading this obout steps ect , heres my take , every hull is about set up , set up with props and trim i have seen good hulls perform crap due to set up

going fast in the rough is no differant its all in the set up , i have tested a stepped version of the pacer 70 and set up the same as the pacer 70 the hull is very differant , but over all the pacer 70 with the steps handles the rough better than the 70 with out , set ups on a steppped hull is another level up again from standard set ups

i will be making the stepped version of the 70 and yes it will take the z drives ( the pacer 70 will take the wd 200 drives )

not knocking mhz steppped hulls but the larger ones do require work on them to make it run well

engine size and weight of hull also has a big input on the perforance / handling of the hulls

cheers tony