budjet

Sorry but I think I am going to open a right ole can of worms here,i started looking for a new sports turbine model to replace an elan and quite frankly am amazed at the prices now asked.i know this has been said before but what makes a “JET” so much more than any other model.i started by looking at a certain model designed by a well known american designer and now available as an ARTF.having seen these fly well (built from the plan)it interested me. But £850 no way ,it looks well enough built but no better than many ARTF prop planes that sell for two or three hundred pounds.
Its still made from the same chinese lightply that most other kits are made from and its still covered in film.not just singling out this model every jet kit just seems over priced to me.a while ago I bought an A4 skyhawk kit from a well known UK shop for around seven hundred pounds with retracts, wheels,brakes tanks and tailpipe,for that money I did expect to have to do a lot of work on it,but I was well impressed with what I received.far more than I expected.thats the sort of money we should be paying not many thousands of pounds...........I just imagine some of the replies to this post.HEE HEE.

Dave Wilshere

Mick

Numbers....Shipping box size in the case of the Turb... Try and ship something 2m long by air now and see the cost!

A wood ARF..Seb Art Angel S pattern, £250, so I half to a third of the price of a Boomerang Sprint....Angel S sales....thousands. Sprint Hundreds. Its simple.
Chinese foamies come into this (small) country in the thousands. Jets, 50 a year?

D

bluescoobydoo

i agree with you 100% they are a total rip off, they only get away with it because they know they can, i have a friend who found a receipt for a skymaster a10 in a box with another model showing the total price from the factory he wont let me see it because he dos'nt want it getting out that he has started something, but i have a good idea how much it is and it is way less than £500.
i know he is on here all the time but gett's kicked off for telling the truth so i wont mention his name.
we were talking the other day about this subject because he has just brought a speedboat complete with trailer and engine for less than a good jet kit and it is just a much work and loads more material involved.
i am just waiting for a prop plane manufacturer like cm pro or blackhorse to get in the market and see what happens, its what the jet side of this hobby needs it will happen i am sure but when i don't know

Dr Honda

My Feedback: (4)

+2

100% agree. Sure... there is "Newer Technology" in the composite models... but the materials aren't that expensive. Not to mention... it's all coming out of China, so the prices are just nutz.

marc s

Even if Black Horse or CMPro do come into the jet market if the quantity is not there in terms of demand the kits will be expensive - period!

I was involved in a new small composite jet project with a friend, we brought it to market and my word NOTHING prepares you for the work, money and time it all involves - its just imaginable. We sold all the kits and could have made more but seriously the money we invested verses what we made would leave you better off on the dole!

I take my hat off to manufacturers who produce some of the kits out there - worth every penny.

marcs

budjet

not sure numbers come into it,i also fly helicopters last year bought a heli made by a well known manufacturer,gasser heli made from good quality carbon fibre and alloy came with 20cc zenoah electronic ignition etc carbon blades £750,thats good value.but i guess they sell them by the THOUSANDS................

FalconWings

My Feedback: (57)

+3. I contacted FEJ to replace a 1/8th F-16 that I lost a few weeks ago and was SHOCKED to learn the new value of a replacement airframe. I don't know if they realize it, but they are placing their price range among the top contenders now (BVM, Avonds.....).

But I guess that's what happens when "top pilots" start flying your brand.

budjet

sad that FEJ are putting the prices up,they were some of the better value kits for people that know what the are doing to produce a safe flyable jet,i have the 1/9 rafale and now have it flying well.good mouldings,woodwork not bad and retracts that work well with abit of fettling....

FalconWings

My Feedback: (57)

Exactly what I told the guy who was helping me. Their advantage was good value (ok maybe with some minor fettling..). That edge is now partially gone.

always dangerous

I guess the point is that over the years the hobby has changed , it seems that aero modellers have been replaced with product consumer's ! ,
i think the quality of flying has indeed generally improved maybe as a result of computer games ect , flying model's is only an extension of joysticks on an x box or something.
However as the art of building model's has somewhat diminished the modern consumer of artf's is ill equiped to judge the quality of these product's.
I still predominately build as i prefere model's that are different to the mainstream but also so i can control the quality of wood / other material's and fixing's etc ,
Having weaken'd a couple of times to the artf dark side i have mostly been very disapointed with the quality - mostly of the type of wood used for formers and more importantly u/c mount's , and i have to say this is quite a general thing regardless of model manufacture and price bracket .
It's hard to describe the horible constitution of this so called wood , a ply like material that one can sink a thumb nail into and which simply delaminates when mildly stressed , thats if your lucky enough that its sufficiently glue'd in in the first place ! , not to mention iron on film , and i was amazed to find in the past -nylon clevises - " all on turbine models"
I sympathise with model shop's and believe we should support them instead of buying from on line shop's ,
shop's have overheads so we should expect to pay slightly more for the service , they also have to sell what people are wanting to buy so they can survive ,
However i feel strongly that until the manufacturers start to use good quality wood and alloy for their component's the models (notably jets ) are indeed ridiculously overpriced and sub standard .
p.s. forgive me i am very old

budjet

ALLWAYS DANGEROUS luv it..............................wheres dennis when you need him...................

Chris Smith

My Feedback: (2)

Most of us would agree, however it helps to put it in perspective. Many more prop planes are sold, so there is no comparison in price. You could build the airplane yourself for around $500 (airframe only). so you are only paying double that since someone else built it.

The way to look at it is to compare the end result. Since I own one, I can say you will be very hard pressed to find as good a high speed, low speed, aerobatic, honest, no vices, and simple airplane powered by any turbine from P70 to P120 class size. It's easy to repair, easy to fit all the goodies in, and will fly into any club field you can imagine.

Just because it is wood and heat shrink covered should not mean it is inferior or less value. In the end it is one of those jets in your fleet that you fly first, fly last, fly when it's windy, or when it's raining. When the sun is going down you are still flying as others are packing up and sipping tea.

Cheers,
Chris

lov2flyrc

My Feedback: (24)

Volume, Volume, Volume!!!
The jet market is probably less than 1% of the RC industry! You can not produce an airframe in low volume and have low cost... Development and production costs on a P-51 mustang are shared across 50K-100K+ units. Spread that investment over 500pcs or less and it dramatically affects production cost. Go ahead; Design, Prototype, Test, Refine, Test, Produce, Create Manual, Transport, Inspect, store, ship and support at new jet kit.... I think you will have a completely different view on the subject!

budjet

Dont get me wrong I dont begrudge paying good money for my hobby,but I do expect good quality and value for money which sometimes is definitely lacking.as pointed out by someone else rubbish wood lack of glue in the right places.sometimes this can be down right dangerous having nearly lost a wing from a well known sport jet due to the little piece of ply on the end of a wing tube coming adrift allowing the wing tube to slide all the way into one wing leaving about 2 inches of tube in the left wing.we have little or no warranty when
one of our jets destroys itself due to a defect that we cant prove because its spread all over the county.........

marc s

Spot on Todd, the feeling after the initial excitement of the first CAD drawings soon wears off..........

marcs

Dave Wilshere

Century Gasser..Yep, thousands.

CMPro are in the Jet market, they make Boomerang kits, so....

£500 for a Skymaster A-10, yeh import price to dodge tax! not what it cost...

As I have said before, get into manufacturing, we will all buy at the super cheap price you think is possible...

Dw

G4guy

My Feedback: (13)

Supply and Demand, there is nothing more to it. Prices are what they are because that is what modelers are willing to pay for them. You can think it is a ripoff, but then you do not have to buy it.
It is so simple, Plan, design, build, flight test, change, flight test again, make adjustments, and you can have you own jet at a good price......... I did, airframe around $200.00

spaceman 01

My Feedback: (44)

HI RON,
YOUR JET LOOKS GREAT. NEXT TIME I SEE YOU HAVE ONE READY FOR ME , ARF CONDITION.
I SPOKE TO YOU AT KENTUCKY JETS. NICK FROM CHICAGO.

invertmast

My Feedback: (23)

I gotta agree with you guys on this one! The time and expense invested is hardly worth the returns. That would be why my F14 project hasnt progressed past the mold making segment. I am having a hard time justifiying spending another $7k+ on the tooling and prototype that i will maybe sell one or two units a year due to not being able to compete wit the time table and pricing of the chinese manufacturers

joeflyer

My Feedback: (48)

I agree with what has been saidabout manufacturing turbine airframes.Like G4guy I've built my own. I started with a BalsaUSA Enforcer kit and modified it for my first turbine. It proved to be a great flier and is still intact after over 250 flights. Total cost of the project was $1600-1700, including the used Ram500. There are other kits and airframes outthere that can be modified for turbine usewithout breaking the bank.I also have about 200 flights on aFalcon 120, which is a great flier at a reasonable cost.

Either one makes a great first sport jet. I don't fly them much any more sinceI've moved on to scale jets and am now paying the big bucks.

Joe